what went wrong?

[FrankQuilicy]

I think it's fair to say that the Minnesota Twins 2022 season was a philosophical failure. That would be putting it nicely. There were some bright spots to he sure...Duran,  the emergence of Nick Gordon, Joe Ryan, but to be honest (and I have gone on record as saying this) This front office has to go...and go away far. I will reference a podcast on the Athletic hosted by Jason Stark and Doug Glamcille where for 60 minutes they ask Joe Maddon what is wrong with baseball today. The jist of the listening experience includes the usage of analytics in major league baseball. I think we can all agree it has a useful inclusion of the sport.  Maddon expands on how the Angels, this past spring micro-managed him to the point where he became so discouraged that he did not even watch the All-Star game.  Now that may seem like sour grapes, however, look at what's happened to the Minnesota Twins. I am not Frank Quilici. I have never believed in this front office...that being said why is Rocco Baldelli a figurehead when he has more baseball knowledge in his pinky tip than Derek Falvey and Thad Levine, AND Jim Pohlad combined? I do not understand why this team cannot stay healthy. I do not understand why were promised pitching gurus to run this team, and I do not understand why they trade for Chris Paddack, and Tyler Mahle when the rest of the league KNEW they were damaged goods. This may be the most frustrating season in my 68 years.  This blame starts from the top....not the dugout, not the clubhouse, not on the field. Falvine has to gtfo.

[Number3]

You forgot Lopez who anyone could see was just another average or below pitcher who the Orioles said thank you very much for trading for him and Carlos Correa the $105mil shortstop who was acquired out of pure desperation just to make a move and who I am convinced ruined the club house whether anyone wants to admit it or not. Failvey and Losevine have to go. Just stay on the golf course.

[Doctor Gast]

I agree w/ you Frank that this team tends to over analyze situations. I started a thread this early off season on what's more important "Analytics or Intuition". Most said that there needs to be both but put more importance on analytics. Stats like any data can be spun any way that you want to prove your point. Also you have to look at underlying conditions both good & bad. Besides IMO you need to go with your gut if you are into the game. I started this thread because all I hear from some fans is stats, stats, stats that's all that matters. It isn't.

I too was 100% against the Paddack trade from the beginning. And much much earlier after debating w/ some FO/ Baldelli fans about certain situations & digging deeper into it I found many faults w/ Falvine. Unlike you Frank, even with their faults I've seen improvement every year. They have improved our INF; 1st w/ Donaldson, then took Polanco from SS. This year they added Correa & our CF depth has greatly improved (maybe they don't receive credit for this). They suggested the use of long relief (via piggy-back) which I've been 100% for and IMO the absence of is the main reason for most of our pitching injuries & ineffiency. Unfortunately they balked because of fans blow back and or Baldelli's preference of totally relying on short relief. Many of their trades didn't turn out as was planned but I still give them credit for trying.

I have given up on Sano & Kepler, I'll give FO/ Baldelli one more year. If they pull off some intelligent trades & incorporate long relief & regularly use it therefore proving me right again. I'd be satisfied.

[Craig Arko]

Expectations.

[FrankQuilicy]

On 9/21/2022 at 12:53 PM, Doctor Gast said:

I agree w/ you Frank that this team tends to over analyze situations. I started a thread this early off season on what's more important "Analytics or Intuition". Most said that there needs to be both but put more importance on analytics. Stats like any data can be spun any way that you want to prove your point. Also you have to look at underlying conditions both good & bad. Besides IMO you need to go with your gut if you are into the game. I started this thread because all I hear from some fans is stats, stats, stats that's all that matters. It isn't.

I too was 100% against the Paddack trade from the beginning. And much much earlier after debating w/ some FO/ Baldelli fans about certain situations & digging deeper into it I found many faults w/ Falvine. Unlike you Frank, even with their faults I've seen improvement every year. They have improved our INF; 1st w/ Donaldson, then took Polanco from SS. This year they added Correa & our CF depth has greatly improved (maybe they don't receive credit for this). They suggested the use of long relief (via piggy-back) which I've been 100% for and IMO the absence of is the main reason for most of our pitching injuries & ineffiency. Unfortunately they balked because of fans blow back and or Baldelli's preference of totally relying on short relief. Many of their trades didn't turn out as was planned but I still give them credit for trying.

I have given up on Sano & Kepler, I'll give FO/ Baldelli one more year. If they pull off some intelligent trades & incorporate long relief & regularly use it therefore proving me right again. I'd be satisfied.

i was in such a rant i forgot all of it but, what really turns me red is the fact that all these guys seem to get injured at a way more alarming rate. There has absolutely got to be something way wrong with the training and medical staff. Also why do we keep on trading for pitchers that the rest of the league KNOWS are injury risks? Where is the pitching gurus now? hiding behind the injury excuse...Falvine needs to go. I can't wait to hear why Johnson left a first place team in mid season. And why in the Hell didn't they call Latroy Hawkins to be pitching coach. My guess is he doesnt wanna work for those two. Also for derek falvey to talk about Francona like he's god is so fricken annoying. Didn't he ever watch anything during his decade or whatever it was there? The Guardians made baldelli, falvey, and levine look like the Bad News Bears of 2022.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Squirrel
No name calling

[Doctor Gast]

46 minutes ago, FrankQuilicy said:

i was in such a rant i forgot all of it but, what really turns me red is the fact that all these guys seem to get injured at a way more alarming rate. There has absolutely got to be something way wrong with the training and medical staff. Also why do we keep on trading for pitchers that the rest of the league KNOWS are injury risks? Where is the pitching gurus now? hiding behind the injury excuse...Falvine needs to go. I can't wait to hear why Johnson left a first place team in mid season. And why in the Hell didn't they call Latroy Hawkins to be pitching coach. My guess is he doesnt wanna work for those two. Also for derek falvey to talk about Francona like he's god is so fricken annoying. Didn't he ever watch anything during his decade or whatever it was there? The Guardians made baldelli, falvey, and levine look like the Bad News Bears of 2022.

I was thinking about the same thing, Frank. I don't like that this FO likes to leave coaching spots basically open. Hawkins would been a great candidate, I was thinking even a figure head that the pitchers would look up to (like maybe J Santana) that comes & gives them a pep talk & encouragement, would be better than instead of maybe some geek. 

[FrankQuilicy]

2 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I was thinking about the same thing, Frank. I don't like that this FO likes to leave coaching spots basically open. Hawkins would been a great candidate, I was thinking even a figure head that the pitchers would look up to (like maybe J Santana) that comes & gives them a pep talk & encouragement, would be better than instead of maybe some geek. 

when they promoted Mackey i couldnt believe it!  and for them to say johnson had to leave for recruiting....Come On... I can't wait to hear the real reason why he left

[tony&rodney]

Can you imagine what Kelly, Gardenhire, and Molitor think about Twins baseball in its current iteration? 

[gman]

This month the Twins scored more than 4 runs in a game only 4 times. That leaves 19 games with 4 runs or less. IN August the Twins scored more than 4 runs 8 times in 28 games. Pretty tough to win games if you can't score. Who in the Twins lineup right now are opposing pitchers afraid to pitch to? No one.  The regulars are all on the IL except 2 and I think those 2 are dinged up. Pretty much just playing with rookies, subs and scrubs. The Twins used 60 players so far this year and I hope no one else gets hurt.

[rwilfong86]

Injuries followed by incompetence. 

[rwilfong86]

5 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Can you imagine what Kelly, Gardenhire, and Molitor think about Twins baseball in its current iteration? 

The Twins firing Molitor for Rocco was a travesty. 

[LVTwinsfan]

13 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

The Twins firing Molitor for Rocco was a travesty. 

Yea I miss the days when the main discussions here were about how bad Molitor was.

[rwilfong86]

7 minutes ago, LVTwinsfan said:

Yea I miss the days when the main discussions here were about how bad Molitor was.

He had a terrible team to manage and got them to the playoffs in 2017, won manager of the year and then got the short end of the stick after 2018. 

[RpR]

1 hour ago, LVTwinsfan said:

Yea I miss the days when the main discussions here were about how bad Molitor was.

Molitor worst problem was  he was friends with the players, not their boss.

I stil remember well when he said after Sano got sent down he felt so bad of poor Sano have ride a bus to games and play in lessor stadiums; hell, he was not their boss, he was their mother.

[FrankQuilicy]

2 hours ago, rwilfong86 said:

He had a terrible team to manage and got them to the playoffs in 2017, won manager of the year and then got the short end of the stick after 2018. 

and i may add, the Falvines did everything they could to sabotage both the '17 and '18 teams. I still dont know why. leaving them with no closer except Matt Belisle for the stretch run in 2017 was incredibly stupid.

[LVTwinsfan]

3 hours ago, rwilfong86 said:

He had a terrible team to manage and got them to the playoffs in 2017, won manager of the year and then got the short end of the stick after 2018. 

Whatever that wasnt the point. The complaints about Molitor, right or wrong, mostly wrong probably, but the complaints about Molitor were the same as the complaints at about Rocco…he can’t manage the bullpen, he’s too friendly with the players…..

[rwilfong86]

9 minutes ago, LVTwinsfan said:

Whatever that wasnt the point. The complaints about Molitor, right or wrong, mostly wrong probably, but the complaints about Molitor were the same as the complaints at about Rocco…he can’t manage the bullpen, he’s too friendly with the players…..

I think the FO jumped the gun with Molitor but are too lenient with Rocco. I would personally take Molitor over Rocco any day.