Twins 6, Guardians 7 (15 Innings): Twins Mount Comeback, Still Lose Long Game

[SkyBlueWaters]

 

Through their first nine games head-to-head this year, the Twins beat Cleveland five times. Each of the Guardians’ four wins was by one run.

The Twins had well-documented struggles against teams with better records at that point. But that the Twins had outscored Cleveland 52-33 at that stage gave me (foolish?) optimism for the rest of the season.

The Cleveland games now seem a bellwether for this season, where the Twins once were 11 games over .500, before falling flat.

With two games left against Cleveland (and Ryan and Gray starting), the Twins have still outscored them 82-78. While the season series stands at 5-12.

We have lost to them by a single run eight times. Two runs twice. Once by three, once by four. In 12 losses, never by five or more.

Injuries no doubt played a part in this season’s disappointments. Plus not enough quality arms. But the feast-or-famine Twins offense played a part, too.

I'm just foolish enough to look at the talent on this team, and the youth, and believe that if they add the right arms, in the off-season ...

Sure Lucy, hold the football. I believe it will be there when I run forward to kick it.

 

[LastOnePicked]

1 hour ago, mikelink45 said:

But they like their manager!  At least that is what I read in a TD essay

Funny. Rocco's problem certainly isn't likability. Heck, I like him (what I've seen/heard) as a person. I've just come to hate seeing him as a manager here. Very much hoping this dismal finish marks the end of his Twins tenure.

[LastOnePicked]

1 hour ago, SkyBlueWaters said:

I'm just foolish enough to look at the talent on this team, and the youth, and believe that if they add the right arms, in the off-season ...

Take my advice: Just don't do it. Don't imagine this team better than they are. Make this organization earn your hope.

[KirbyDome89]

14 hours ago, h2oface said:

Here’s to all of the realists condemned for prognosticating the future and speaking out early and often to try to get the brass to act early and often and change the impending future. 

The Twins had a share of 1st place just 2 weeks ago. Cleveland had lost 5 straight, and the Sox continued to be the Sox. Broken clocks being right twice a day yada yada, I believe the primary argument for the Twins hanging on was the general weakness of the division. I don't think that's has changed. The Twins have played like a 70 win team rather than an 80 win one the last few weeks and it has likely closed the door on them, but I don't recall that being prognosticated. If the over/under on Ws in 7 games against Cleveland in September was set at 1.5 were you taking the under in June, July, or even August? 

[SkyBlueWaters]

3 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

Take my advice: Just don't do it. Don't imagine this team better than they are. Make this organization earn your hope.

I think we are pretty much in agreement. Elsewhere, I've written about Falvey, brought to Minnesota as the guru of developing an ALCS-winning pitching staff. and after his years now of heading this organization, holding him accountable for the Twins pitching  he envisions leading the team into the playoffs and winning.

To my mind, this is the question now for the hot stove league. But I'm not gloomy--however ghastly the results have been during the dog days. This team is deep. This team has talent. Even fungible talent, valuable in bartering.

Yes, Lucy, I trust you. Just set the football down, and I'll run forward and kick it.

[DJL44]

19 hours ago, UpstateNewYorker said:

I get that giving up an out by bunting is generally a bad strategy, but it sure seems like moving the ghost runner to third is a situation where a sacrifice is appropriate. Apparently Francona thinks so. I don't recall seeing the Twins do this much if at all this season.

It's a better strategy in the bottom of the inning knowing the other team didn't score than it is in the top of the inning when a 2 run HR gives you a bigger cushion.

[LastOnePicked]

13 hours ago, SkyBlueWaters said:

But I'm not gloomy--however ghastly the results have been during the dog days. This team is deep. This team has talent.

Sadly, I'm gloomy. Talent is potential. Potential is not results. The results just aren't there. The sad reality is this: the Falvey era began with a loaded farm system and highly-touted talents like Buxton, Sano, Berrios, Polanco, Kepler and Rosario on the field. There was a window of contention there, capped with this year's hail-mary Correa contract. That window is now closed, and this new era begins with one of the most depleted farm systems in baseball, a severely hobbled Buxton and a whole lotta question marks, particularly at SP, SS, C and OF.

In short, any talk of contention next year seems extremely silly. Time again to take a rebuild seriously.

[RpR]

The Twins lost due to poor fielding by the SS, that Palacios was at SS in a very important game says a lot about whey the Twins have fallen.

Rodriguez did a good job pitching and now he is gone, that, says a lot also.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, LastOnePicked said:

In short, any talk of contention next year seems extremely silly. Time again to take a rebuild seriously.

The only reason this team has a chance of contending is the Central division will probably be terrible again next season and they have the room in the budget to buy a contender if they are so inclined.

[LastOnePicked]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

The only reason this team has a chance of contending is the Central division will probably be terrible again next season and they have the room in the budget to buy a contender if they are so inclined.

Both of these things were true in the 2021 offseason. How'd that turn out? I mean, if the same people are in charge, what will change?

Also, hard to imagine the division getting more winnable than this year, And the Twins have more holes than most teams. But, what the heck - if some of you still think there's a path for winning in 2023, good for you.

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

Both of these things were true in the 2021 offseason. How'd that turn out?

They were in first place until the end of August. This team is a long ways away from being a World Series contender but they could win the AL Central with a little better health and a little development from the younger players. 

I'm not sure they should try to just win the AL Central. They feel like the 2020-21 Reds but I might just be saying that because they have most of the Reds starting pitchers.