Article: Time to Put Pelf on the Shelf

[2003freak2003]

The Twins have a bunch of guys who might be useful as back-end starters. Hendriks is the youngest and probably has the most upside, but there is De Vries, Deduno, and Walters. If the Twins want to limit Gibson's innings, the #5 spot becomes #4. Walters is currently pitching very well in Rochester, while De Vries and Deduno are rehabbing. I would like to see some answer on the usefulness of these guys, so they can either commit or dispose of them.

 

I agree I would rather see Hendriks instead of Pelfrey at this point, what are you basing your "upside" off of with Hendriks compared to Devries, Deduno, Walters? Hendriks has seemed like a disaster when he has had multiple chances as a starting pitcher in the Major Leagues. Because of his AAA numbers? Not arguing just curious as to your insight.

[ThePuck]

22 Starts...Hendriks has 22 MLB starts. Does this close the book on this 24 year old?

[ashbury]

Well, a few more starts like this and they should really consider DFA.

 

I think it's true that even if he clears waivers and is DFA, he can refuse the minor league assignment. So then the choice is to just cut him. Do you believe the experiment is enough of a failure to do that?

[Nick Nelson]

I think it's true that even if he clears waivers and is DFA, he can refuse the minor league assignment.

 

Why on Earth would he refuse a minor-league assignment? It's not like the Twins would be trying to screw him over. The move would be 100 percent justified and no big-league team is going to grab him and put him in their rotation right now. The best thing for Pelfrey's career would be to accept the assignment, rattle off some good starts in Triple-A and put together a strong remainder of the year. I have to believe he realizes that.

 

But if he really would be so brazen as to reject the assignment, then fine, let him loose. There's no reason they should be held hostage by a struggling veteran on a one-year deal.

[ashbury]

Why on Earth would he refuse a minor-league assignment?

 

I don't know, but since it's written in the CBA or whatever there must be some reason a player might choose to invoke it.

 

and no big-league team is going to grab him and put him in their rotation right now.

 

My understanding is he still has an option. So exposing him to other teams isn't even necessary.

 

It's just a question of him seeing it as being in his own interest, as you say. It's possible he'd see it differently. If he's concerned about his next contract, he may be optimistic and believe he's better served to put up some good numbers in the majors than at AAA.

[cmathewson]

Hendriks does not have much upside, as far as I can tell. He can refine his control. But that is unlikely. It seems like he would have better control by now if he ever could. Besides, he's had four opportunities to overcome the control issues in the majors and he hasn't. Time to give the next guy a shot.

 

I think Gibson is the next guy up here. I wouldn't be surprised to see Meyer promoted when Gibson is. And then taking his innings when Gibson is shut down for the year. De Vries and Deduno take there place ahead of Hendriks when they're healthy. Both beat him out this spring. It took both of them getting hurt for him to make the team out of spring training. And it didn't take him long to lose his job to Hernandez.

[Mike Sixel]

Hendriks strikes me as a guy that is close, but not quite there yet. He may never be there. But I'd give him another year as a starter before moving him to reliever. I'd think reliever is his long term place, though.

[nicksaviking]

Since Pelfrey has 5 years of service time, if he is DFA'd, clears waivers and refuses a minor league assignment, the Twins are on the hook for the remainder of his salary.

 

So Pelfrey likely would refuse the assignemt. Surely no team is interested in him with his $4 million contract which they would be forced to pay if they claim him off waivers, but he likely would test the waters to see if someone will take him at a prorated portion of his contract with the Twins paying the rest.

[Mauerpower]

Gardy can't pull a pitcher at the right moment to save his life. He's had a horrid history of proving this true. Unfortunately, in situations like Pelfrey's, it cost them the game. It may also be hurting his chances at recovering fully. In the past Gardy was so locked in at the closer position he wouldn't pull them out until they failed multiple times and lost a few games as a result.

That being said, bring up Gibson. If you're scared it's too soon then bring up Walters until DeVries or Deduno are healthy.

[The Wise One]

Pelfrey kinda gets ripped here, now does well. Correia gets faint praise and gets bombed. Hmmm. Corelation equalling causation, llet the complainers run amok on TD

[glunn]

Pelfrey had a solid start today. Let's hope that he can build on that and continue to adjust to the TJ surgery. If Pelfrey can shine, then he might make excellent trade bait at the deadline, or even be part of a run at the division title if the Twins get hot.

[jokin]

Pelfrey kinda gets ripped here, now does well. Correia gets faint praise and gets bombed. Hmmm. Corelation equalling causation, llet the complainers run amok on TD

 

 

Correlation does not imply causation, but it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing: "look over there!"

 

 

Twins SP ERA for 2012: 5.40

Twins SP ERA for 2013: 5.01

 

Has the starting pitching improved? Yes, marginally, it has. It's been much more pleasurable watching so far this year, not constantly being down 7-0 after 3 innings. But it isn't exactly time to break out the marching bands in celebration and placing multiple nominees from the current Twins SP staff for the Twins Hall of Fame.

[jokin]

Pelfrey had a solid start today. Let's hope that he can build on that and continue to adjust to the TJ surgery. If Pelfrey can shine, then he might make excellent trade bait at the deadline, or even be part of a run at the division title if the Twins get hot.

 

I like Pelf a lot, a midwestern guy who is very self-conscious about pulling his own weight for his teammates. And I agree with your assessment, hoping for the 2 best possible outcomes. I'm afraid that the first year back from TJ most often means a lot of 1 step forward, 2 step back frustrations. The odds are probably 50-50 that he'll have to go down for a short-term rehab assignment- hopefully today's performance is indicative that the odds will change in his favor.

[Nick Nelson]

Pelfrey looked like a different guy today. I'm stunned. I'll eat some crow in tomorrow's post.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Pelfrey looked like a different guy today. I'm stunned. I'll eat some crow in tomorrow's post.

 

No. We all want you to eat it NOW.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Really though, I don't think anyone should be eating crow. Pelfrey was awful for 5-6 starts and had a good day.

 

I'm happy he pitched well but I'm not going to forget that WHIP of 2.00 because he had one decent start.

[The Greatest Poster Alive]

Good start by a guy who likely had 1 or 2 chances left before he forced the Twins to take him out of the rotation. If Pelfrey can turn into a solid rotation guy... The Twins could have something unthinkable before the season started... Rotation depth

[ashbury]

Really though, I don't think anyone should be eating crow. Pelfrey was awful for 5-6 starts and had a good day.

 

I'm happy he pitched well but I'm not going to forget that WHIP of 2.00 because he had one decent start.

 

Maybe this isn't more than average for a team, but at this moment I'm thinking the Twins have 3 guys whose slates need to be wiped clean beyond a certain point - Hicks before April 14 for his horrendous start, Escobar before the last week of April for hitting way over his head, and Pelfrey who could well have been shaking the rust off for the first month. Maybe Correia should also have April erased but he's not like the other three in that I can't point to any particular moment where something would have changed. I'm not saying I'm inside any player's head, just that Hicks being a touted rookie and Pelfrey just getting back from TJ are both temporary things that may not have long-term implications on their skill sets, and Escobar (who I definitely like in the long run) might have been able to take advantage of there not yet really being a book on him yet. The book on Hicks, by contrast, seemed to be "don't throw this guy any more strikes after you get two on him" the first month.

[IdahoPilgrim]

Good start by a guy who likely had 1 or 2 chances left before he forced the Twins to take him out of the rotation. If Pelfrey can turn into a solid rotation guy... The Twins could have something unthinkable before the season started... Rotation depth

 

We'll have to fix that - quick. Start dangling some of them as trade bait.

[The Greatest Poster Alive]

We'll have to fix that - quick. Start dangling some of them as trade bait.

 

That would actually be ideal. If Pelfrey and Correia play well enough to continue their success... The Twins either are somehow in playoff contention, or they are close but not close enough. Twins get overpaid and send those guys off to contenders. Twins get prospects and more payroll flexibility for next year's much better free agent class.

[DaveW]

First off, I don't think Pelf is ever going to get to the point this year where he brings back some legit haul of prospects (think of the Pavano/Liriano packages)

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the kid can turn it around and ultimately be a solid #4 this year, and #3 in the future, but those kind of guys don't bring in very huge hauls.

 

I would rather him get back to normal, put some quality starts together and the Twins give him a team friendly 2 year contract sometime late in the season.

 

The last thing this org needs to be doing is trading ANY starting pitchers who can be effective. Once Gibson/Meyer/May/etc come up and start pressing, then you trade them. Until then, hold onto any starter you can that will be able to help in 2014.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm also of the opinion the if Pelfrey builds strength through the season, he's a guy the front office should lock up for two years after the season. He seems like a good guy and if he can make it through 2013, he should be better in 2014.

[Oxtung]

Why would you want to lock Pelfrey up for multiple years? He is not a good pitcher. You can find Pelfrey-esque pitchers every off season.

[DaveW]

Why would you want to lock Pelfrey up for multiple years? He is not a good pitcher. You can find Pelfrey-esque pitchers every off season.

I said if he pitches to his potential, and that is also why I said team friendly. Give me a guy with potential upside like pelfrey over the garbage we usually sign 8 days a week

[Brock Beauchamp]

Why would you want to lock Pelfrey up for multiple years? He is not a good pitcher. You can find Pelfrey-esque pitchers every off season.

 

I'd want him because pitchers are usually better in their second season back from Tommy John and it shouldn't take much to retain him.

[cmathewson]

No. We all want you to eat it NOW.

 

Umm. Crow. Alghralgrhalgrh

[TheLeviathan]

Twins get prospects and more payroll flexibility for next year's much better free agent class.

 

The eleventy-billion we'll have available will surely be spent to vastly improve the team!

[Oxtung]

I said if he pitches to his potential, and that is also why I said team friendly. Give me a guy with potential upside like pelfrey over the garbage we usually sign 8 days a week

 

I'd want him because pitchers are usually better in their second season back from Tommy John and it shouldn't take much to retain him.

 

I don't disagree that we normally scrape the barrel for pitchers or that Pelfrey should improve throughout the season and going into next season but what upside does Pelfrey have? Even when healthy and at his very best he is a good fourth starter. That kind of guy is available every off season so why would the Twins want to get locked into Pelfrey for multiple years?

[DaveW]

I don't disagree that we normally scrape the barrel for pitchers or that Pelfrey should improve throughout the season and going into next season but what upside does Pelfrey have? Even when healthy and at his very best he is a good fourth starter. That kind of guy is available every off season so why would the Twins want to get locked into Pelfrey for multiple years?

He has a pretty decent arm and always have, I think he struggled in NYC a bit because he isn't an East coast guy and the expectations where pretty ridiculous for him.

 

If you can get a guy (even if he is only a #4) to agree to a decent contract for 2 years or so I think you gotta do it. Especially one who isn't over the age of 30. He choose to sign here for less money then he probably could have gotten in the off-season, it only makes sense to try to keep him around if he starts pitching like he did today.

[Oxtung]

He has a pretty decent arm and always have, I think he struggled in NYC a bit because he isn't an East coast guy and the expectations where pretty ridiculous for him.

 

If you can get a guy (even if he is only a #4) to agree to a decent contract for 2 years or so I think you gotta do it. Especially one who isn't over the age of 30. He choose to sign here for less money then he probably could have gotten in the off-season, it only makes sense to try to keep him around if he starts pitching like he did today.

 

Again why? He has shown that he is a below average pitcher even when healthy. Those kinds of pitchers are available every off season. So there is almost no upside to signing him and moderate risk.

 

Here is another way to look at it. Should the Twins move Duensing back to the rotation and sign him for $12 million dollars and 2 years?