Brooks Lee's Stock is Already Rising

[terrydactyls]

Getting back to the actual topic, I can see the front office trading Lee for an often injured but controllable starting pitcher or a "used to be good" reliever.  ?

[Mike Sixel]

6 hours ago, Mark G said:

"And nobody bunts anymore. You're going to have to give up on that dream. There are very few situations where bunting makes sense."

If it was a dream, it was a recurring dream for 100 years.  And every team in baseball was having that dream.    

Somehow it made sense for 100 years, but not now.  Did the game change, or did the players?  Kind of like when the NBA went to the 3 point shot, nobody thought practicing free throws was worth it anymore.   And yet, when a guy hits the other way to advance a runner, or hits a fly ball that does the same, it is referred to as "a productive out", and everyone high fives him.  Hmmmmm........a productive out, and a bunt.........let me ponder that.    

Knowledge changed. It makes no sense to bunt early in the game. Giving up outs is bad. And, they don't high five productive outs because they are good, they are just less bad than some other outcomes.

[Mike Sixel]

23 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

Getting back to the actual topic, I can see the front office trading Lee for an often injured but controllable starting pitcher or a "used to be good" reliever.  ?

No one can see that. And, no, this isn't on topic.

[KirbyDome89]

4 hours ago, twinstalker said:

"except for the player we would have gotten if Lee had already been picked."

An overlooked but all too relevant point to keep in mind. Fingers crossed I guess.

[DocBauer]

8 hours ago, Rosterman said:

Why is Dalton Shuffield at the St. Paul Saints and not Brooks Lee, for the final month of the season?

Not uncommon to see an A ball player jump to AAA on a temporary basis. While it's always been weird to me when it happens, it's to fill in a spot for a week or so until said injured player is back and then the A ball player goes back. I think it also depends on depth in the system. If you have a full roster at A ball, why not sneak a guy up for a week or so, everyone plays, and again, you return the deomote the young player back again. 

It's really just a shuffling of the chairs, so to speak, for a week or so in place of signing someone off the street. 

[DocBauer]

As to the OP, I was a fan of Lee before he was drafted...never thinking so many teams would pass on him, their mistake...and I'm an even bigger fan now. Within the system, I'm still placing Lewis as #1 because his latest setback doesn't remove him from the top based on talent and potential. We've seen just how talented he is and how good he might be. So he's still #1 on my list with Lee just behind. 

In my personal opinion, the one objection I have is something stated early in the OP. I just don't understand an immediate thought/opinion that Lee won't be a SS. He's not Martin being pushed in to SS after seldom ever playing it in hopes his athleticism MIGHT translate there. Lee IS a SS by trade and experience and ability. Some SS are athletic marvels with quickness and speed and amazing arms who are just naturals. Some have great positioning, smarts and instincts with good hands and a good arm and are just very good at SS without having a special "splash" ability, but just make play after play consistently. I can think of a lot of very good SS that fit this category over the years from Ripken to Blauser to maybe even Correa who isn't exactly some speed demon athlete. So if I'm the Twins, I'm keeping him at SS as long as possible.

Lee should finish at CR to help the playoff push. (A couple games at AA isn't going to matter in his development.) But he's going to be at Wichita to begin 2023. How long he stays there is up to him. There's a good chance he's at St Paul mid year. 

As a side note, it's very possible Lee's presence pushes Martin to the OF on a permanent basis, and for his benefit.

[tony&rodney]

8 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

And nobody bunts anymore.

Totally agree. Nobody hits behind the runner, few players hit the cutoff man, and players are weak at taking a base on balls that roll away from the catcher among a host of other small skills. These are all true and I agree with you that nobody bunts. All skills need to be practiced and when a philosophy just ignores an aspect of the game, teams cannot effectively use the practice. That is the way it goes.

[strumdatjag]

7 hours ago, Mark G said:

"And nobody bunts anymore. You're going to have to give up on that dream. There are very few situations where bunting makes sense."

If it was a dream, it was a recurring dream for 100 years.  And every team in baseball was having that dream.    

Somehow it made sense for 100 years, but not now.  Did the game change, or did the players?  Kind of like when the NBA went to the 3 point shot, nobody thought practicing free throws was worth it anymore.   And yet, when a guy hits the other way to advance a runner, or hits a fly ball that does the same, it is referred to as "a productive out", and everyone high fives him.  Hmmmmm........a productive out, and a bunt.........let me ponder that.    

With larger bases, stolen bases and bunting will return to the game at least a little 

[DJL44]

56 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

few players hit the cutoff man

Is this a real problem? I haven't noticed this at all.

[AceWrigley]

10 hours ago, Rosterman said:

Why is Dalton Shuffield at the St. Paul Saints and not Brooks Lee, for the final month of the season?

This is a 2 part question really. The first part, "why", is an age old question and best answered with, "because." The second part, "is Dalton Shuffield at the St. Paul Saints and not Brooks Lee?" . . . yes.

[terrydactyls]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

No one can see that. And, no, this isn't on topic.

Not on topic?  It's about Lee, isn't it?

[Mike Sixel]

12 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

Not on topic?  It's about Lee, isn't it?

It wasn't about the FO? Huh.. 

[terrydactyls]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

It wasn't about the FO? Huh.. 

I get you missed the smiley face. ?

[Tiantwindup]

18 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Outs are bad. A productive out is better than a non-productive out. But both are bad. Teams no longer find it useful to freely give up an out to advance a base runner 1 base (especially from 1st to 2nd) when it doesn't actually increase your chance of scoring. You may not like it, but that's the new reality of the league and it's not going to ever get back to the point where offenses are willing to give up their most valuable asset for anything outside of an actual run scored.

It was a recurring dream for 100 years that pitchers didn't throw splitters either. Do you want Duran or Maeda to quit throwing their splitters because nobody threw one for 100 years? We've gotten smarter and adjusted how we play the game because of it. Sacrifice bunts are bad baseball outside of a couple very specific situations. For 100 years it was also every team's dream to have a SS who could field, but not hit. Same with 2nd basemen. No 2B are expected to be legit bats and a SS better be able to hit and field. 

You can ponder whatever you want, but the provable fact is that bunting is bad strategy. I'm sorry if you don't like that change in the game, but it's one you're going to have to accept. (Now bunting for a hit against the shift is a different story, but with the shift ban next year it's probably a less useful tool)

Its seems that there is one specific instance where all might agree that a bunt is a worthwhile out.  Extra innings, tie game in bottom of inning. Only one run is needed. Bunt the ghost runner to third …

[DJL44]

3 hours ago, Tiantwindup said:

Its seems that there is one specific instance where all might agree that a bunt is a worthwhile out.  Extra innings, tie game in bottom of inning. Only one run is needed. Bunt the ghost runner to third …

That's the best situation but even that decision depends on the batter (can they bunt? are they the most likely to get a hit? will the batter get intentionally walked?). You wouldn't want Arraez to bunt in that situation because a single scores the runner.

[sthpstm]

I’m not disputing that Lee has done well, but if you look at other top prospects, there aren’t many if any that you would move down to make room for his ascent. Most of the guys drafted above or even after him are also holding or more than holding their own at comparable levels.

[jkcarew]

Only in Twins-land can we consider it ‘aggressive’ to move this player to high A: considered a steal at #8 overall…65-70 hit tool…college bat who will be 22 before next season begins.
 

Sigh.

[MN_ExPat]

On 9/12/2022 at 12:43 PM, chpettit19 said:

And nobody bunts anymore. You're going to have to give up on that dream. There are very few situations where bunting makes sense.