2022 Vikings Regular Season Thread

[cHawk]

14 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Someone’s gonna have to win the NFC South, and if it’s Tampa they will be curb stomped in the first round. 

I wouldn't be so sure about that. As long as Mike McCarthy is at the helm for the Cowboys, they'll be capable of laying an egg at any point in the postseason.

[LVTwinsfan]

1 hour ago, Aggies7 said:

You don’t have to be disappointed, but I’m also not going to take any solace that we had a better year than last year, record wise. And in fact, the defense has actually gotten worse since last season. They were ranked 24 last year and are now dead last yardage wise. Last year’s team is actually very similar to 2022 IMO. The biggest difference has been the performance in close games which I believe is a direct result of having a head coach that the players neither feared nor hated. Having confidence that your coach has your back and won’t degrade you if you fail goes a long way. And yeah, the wild, ridiculous wins have been fun, but in January it’s going to end like so many other years have ended: bounced out by a better team

They still have to play the games, and you know you gotta watch just in case something g crazy happens. It’s better than a losing season by a long shot. Their defense is so bad, they can only get better, unfortunately not this year.

[nicksaviking]

33 minutes ago, cHawk said:

I wouldn't be so sure about that. As long as Mike McCarthy is at the helm for the Cowboys, they'll be capable of laying an egg at any point in the postseason.

As a Viking fan, I wouldn't feel comfortable facing Tom Brady in the playoffs.

Though, come to think of it, I won't feel comfortable facing anyone in the playoffs. Do they really have to play the games? Or can we just do paper-rock-scissors for the trophy?

[stringer bell]

The sum of the Vikings’ parts is closer to equalling the quality of the team this year. I think the coaches have done a good job and I think they’ve been fortunate, too. 10-3 with a -1 points differential indicates that they aren’t dominating, but they are winning. The last five games has exposed a truly soft pass defense and they only faced one really good QB in that time. 
 

Very few football players age gracefully and the Vikings have a lot of guys looking at the downside of their careers. Maybe they can surprise most of us, but I don’t hold out long term hope for this group, so it seems like now or not for a long time. 

[Aggies7]

23 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

As a Viking fan, I wouldn't feel comfortable facing Tom Brady in the playoffs.

Though, come to think of it, I won't feel comfortable facing anyone in the playoffs. Do they really have to play the games? Or can we just do paper-rock-scissors for the trophy?

Being at home for the first playoff game would give us a slight edge over most of those lower seeds. The good news is that they will certainly avoid having to play Dallas and SF in round 1. Teams I’d rather face in order:

giants, Tampa, seattle, Washington, Detroit
 

[Aggies7]

9 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

The sum of the Vikings’ parts is closer to equalling the quality of the team this year. I think the coaches have done a good job and I think they’ve been fortunate, too. 10-3 with a -1 points differential indicates that they aren’t dominating, but they are winning. The last five games has exposed a truly soft pass defense and they only faced one really good QB in that time. 
 

Very few football players age gracefully and the Vikings have a lot of guys looking at the downside of their careers. Maybe they can surprise most of us, but I don’t hold out long term hope for this group, so it seems like now or not for a long time. 

And as mentioned further up the thread, kirk is already kid 30s. Drafting a QB will soon become a high priority if it isn’t already. And unfortunately we don’t have a lot of high picks to do that coming up and you know the team will continue to not be terrible enough to get a top 5 pick.

I look back at 2017 and think that was the shot for this particular window with this core group of guys. 

[Mike Sixel]

3 hours ago, stringer bell said:

The sum of the Vikings’ parts is closer to equalling the quality of the team this year. I think the coaches have done a good job and I think they’ve been fortunate, too. 10-3 with a -1 points differential indicates that they aren’t dominating, but they are winning. The last five games has exposed a truly soft pass defense and they only faced one really good QB in that time. 
 

Very few football players age gracefully and the Vikings have a lot of guys looking at the downside of their careers. Maybe they can surprise most of us, but I don’t hold out long term hope for this group, so it seems like now or not for a long time. 

They have Danielle and Zadarius and can't get any pressure. That's the coaches.

[Mike Sixel]

Udoh is now your backup LT. Let's hope Darrisaw is ok. Both for him and the rest of the team. 

[Danchat]

8 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

And as mentioned further up the thread, kirk is already kid 30s. Drafting a QB will soon become a high priority if it isn’t already. And unfortunately we don’t have a lot of high picks to do that coming up and you know the team will continue to not be terrible enough to get a top 5 pick.

I look back at 2017 and think that was the shot for this particular window with this core group of guys. 

Yeah, I think the window was 2016-2019 but a few things got in the way during 2016 & 2018. 2020 is when the reboot should have happened, if not 2021. A huge factor in all this is that the Vikings' drafting has gone downhill. 2017-2019 they got one average or better starter in each draft (which is bad, 3 starters in 3 drafts is terrible), 2020 was a big success, 2021 looks like another one prospect class and 2022 so far looks terrible on paper. They've been coasting on the core of the roster that was built in 2014-2018 and its time in the sun is nearing its end. They've done a solid job hiding the faults of the team to get wins - I think we found our long term HC - but the cracks in the foundation need to be addressed, but it doesn't look like that is going to be the focus in the 2023 offseason.

[Aggies7]

9 hours ago, Danchat said:

Yeah, I think the window was 2016-2019 but a few things got in the way during 2016 & 2018. 2020 is when the reboot should have happened, if not 2021. A huge factor in all this is that the Vikings' drafting has gone downhill. 2017-2019 they got one average or better starter in each draft (which is bad, 3 starters in 3 drafts is terrible), 2020 was a big success, 2021 looks like another one prospect class and 2022 so far looks terrible on paper. They've been coasting on the core of the roster that was built in 2014-2018 and its time in the sun is nearing its end. They've done a solid job hiding the faults of the team to get wins - I think we found our long term HC - but the cracks in the foundation need to be addressed, but it doesn't look like that is going to be the focus in the 2023 offseason.

Yep, and I believed zimmer was the right guy at the time with that group. Turns out he was a pariah and disliked in the locker room.
 

You wonder how that group would have done with a guy like KOC? He seems to be the right guy (despite his inane goal line jump pass that swung the entire game on Sunday). Unfortunately with the poor drafts and lack of salary cap room, I can see him being a casualty if we go through a rebuild. Just the nature of the league and the story of the Vikings. Timing has never been our thing.

[nicksaviking]

15 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

They have Danielle and Zadarius and can't get any pressure. That's the coaches.

Think of the picks and the money they could have saved had they traded Hunter either of the last two years. What a waste of equity.

[nicksaviking]

18 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

And as mentioned further up the thread, kirk is already kid 30s. Drafting a QB will soon become a high priority if it isn’t already. And unfortunately we don’t have a lot of high picks to do that coming up and you know the team will continue to not be terrible enough to get a top 5 pick.

Yeah, this is going to be tricky. Maybe they can think outside the box. Does Tyler Huntly get a starting job somewhere next year? I'd be curious to see what an offensive minded coach can do with him. What happens in SF next year with their QB situation? I have no interest in Garoppolo who is like Kirk-lite, but if Brady wants to play there, do they move Lance?

What if Lamar Jackson's latest injury convinces the Ravens that they can't give him a guaranteed deal. Should the Vikings? 

In other words, give me a mobile QB I can dream on.

[Mike Sixel]

31 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, this is going to be tricky. Maybe they can think outside the box. Does Tyler Huntly get a starting job somewhere next year? I'd be curious to see what an offensive minded coach can do with him. What h,........

In other words, give me a mobile QB I can dream on.

If I'm the GM I try to trade down and get another third and a backup player that has upside.

I look for guys that were hurt that need a shot to prove they are healthy. If I'm committed to the 3-4, and someone will give me at least a first for Hunter, I do it, though I'd move back to a 4 3 and keep him. I try very, very, hard to deal Cook and keep Mattison. I'm looking for DBs, again, and much faster LBers. Frankly, I'd look for a fast tweener that is an over sized safety to play one LB position. I also look to get a center, if Bradbury leaves. No idea how to do all that with the picks they have.

As for QB, sure, if an upside guy wants to come here and sit behind Kirk, great. But good luck with that.

[nicksaviking]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

If I'm the GM I try to trade down and get another third and a backup player that has upside.

I look for guys that were hurt that need a shot to prove they are healthy. If I'm committed to the 3-4, and someone will give me at least a first for Hunter, I do it, though I'd move back to a 4 3 and keep him. I try very, very, hard to deal Cook and keep Mattison. I'm looking for DBs, again, and much faster LBers. Frankly, I'd look for a fast tweener that is an over sized safety to play one LB position. I also look to get a center, if Bradbury leaves. No idea how to do all that with the picks they have.

As for QB, sure, if an upside guy wants to come here and sit behind Kirk, great. But good luck with that.

If they can somehow take a chance on a long term QB AND take on Cousins 48M cap hit next year, I'd be Ok trading him, even if that means next year is a rebuild because they can't afford to do anything else.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, nicksaviking said:

If they can somehow take a chance on a long term QB AND take on Cousins 48M cap hit next year, I'd be Ok trading him, even if that means next year is a rebuild because they can't afford to do anything else.

I'd ask the owner for a five year deal if I was the GM and coach if that's the plan, because it would be years to recover. Years. They have no draft capital. And this year's draft looks bad 

[nicksaviking]

6 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'd ask the owner for a five year deal if I was the GM and coach if that's the plan, because it would be years to recover. Years. They have no draft capital. And this year's draft looks bad 

Why would it be more than one year?

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Why would it be more than one year?

The D is terrible. How would you fix that in one year, given they can't sign a single free agent if they take a48 million cap hit. No gM can build a team in one year. Plus, what if you bet wrong on Lance? It's not realistic. Show me a path.....

[nicksaviking]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

The D is terrible. How would you fix that in one year, given they can't sign a single free agent if they take a48 million cap hit. No gM can build a team in one year. Plus, what if you bet wrong on Lance? It's not realistic. Show me a path.....

Lance would be the only one that would cost draft picks. Huntly and Jackson would only cause a one year salary headache depending on what you do with Cousins. Which they will inevitably have to deal with one year. This organization tends to build through the draft, not free agency.

But I suppose if you did go with Lance (not that he's available), you'd avoid the 48M cap hit because you could let Cousins play out the last season while Lance sits again.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Lance would be the only one that would cost draft picks. Huntly and Jackson would only cause a one year salary headache depending on what you do with Cousins. Which they will inevitably have to deal with one year.

But I suppose if you did go with Lance (not that he's available), you'd avoid the 48M cap hit because you could let Cousins play out the last season while Lance sits again.

Sure, but how do you fix the rest of the team in your first scenario, or even second? They have few picks and no money in your first scenario. 

[nicksaviking]

7 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Sure, but how do you fix the rest of the team in your first scenario, or even second? They have few picks and no money in your first scenario. 

They have few picks and no money as it is. Aren't they going to have to restart this whole mess anyway? I don't think they can avoid next year being a disaster. Anything they try to do to salvage it is only going to drag out the disaster. This current team, playing against a schedule of actually talented NFL teams next year is going to win about 5 games.

If you could get Huntley on a cheap Marcus Mariota contract or get Lamar Jackson to take a discount next year in exchange for the fully guaranteed deal he wants, while finally cutting the cord on some or all of Cousins/Cook/Thielen/Smith/Hunter, I think they need to consider it.

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

They have few picks and no money as it is. Aren't they going to have to restart this whole mess anyway? I don't think they can avoid next year being a disaster. Anything they try to do to salvage it is only going to drag out the disaster. This current team, playing against a schedule of actually talented NFL teams next year is going to win about 5 games.

If you could get Huntley on a cheap Marcus Mariota contract or get Lamar Jackson to take a discount next year in exchange for the fully guaranteed deal he wants, while finally cutting the cord on some or all of Cousins/Cook/Thielen/Smith/Hunter, I think they need to consider it.

Hence give me a long term deal and time to fix it. 

[nicksaviking]

24 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Hence give me a long term deal and time to fix it. 

Sure. Five years seems longer than needed in today's NFL, but regardless of how long it takes, they have to stop with the half measures. Even if for some reason they wanted them to, these old vets will not play forever.

[LVTwinsfan]

Back when the Vikings were 4-1 I posted…..If they had a defense they could go places.  
 

The defense is just as bad now as it’s been all season. They may win a playoff game…slight chance for anything more.

You can win with an average defense, you can’t beat good teams with a bad defense

[Aggies7]

It stinks that Kirk is probably talented enough to help us win a Super Bowl but we just don’t have nearly enough on the roster for that to be a realistic possibility during the rest of his time here. 

[nicksaviking]

27 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

It stinks that Kirk is probably talented enough to help us win a Super Bowl but we just don’t have nearly enough on the roster for that to be a realistic possibility during the rest of his time here. 

Couldn’t you say that about most of the average QBs in the league? 
 

Either a QB is talented enough to carry a team, or the team needs to be talented enough to win with a Cousins-like QB.

[Aggies7]

6 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Couldn’t you say that about most of the average QBs in the league? 
 

Either a QB is talented enough to carry a team, or the team needs to be talented enough to win with a Cousins-like QB.

I just meant that we keep wasting years of a QB who is capable of winning a Super Bowl. Maybe that’s a bit of a stretch for a guy who has exactly one playoff win, but I don’t think there are that many starting quarterbacks in the league right now who are capable of winning one based on their talents and limitations.

Kirk is not having his best statistical year this season, but I’d take him over probably 25 other starters in the league right now. Heck he might even be higher than that. Mahomes, Allen, burrow, hurts…borderline guys like Dak and Lamar Jackson. I’d take Kirk over Tua and Herbert all day. And he’s never had a good offensive line his entire time here. Ever. He’s not missed a single game due to injury. Kirk isn’t a superstar, but think how bad it would be if we didn’t have him.
 

The Vikings spent decades looking for that steady, long term, above average QB when they had strong rosters. Finally got one in Kirk and the rest of the roster is weak. Maybe zimmer was on to something ?

[nicksaviking]

18 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

I just meant that we keep wasting years of a QB who is capable of winning a Super Bowl. Maybe that’s a bit of a stretch for a guy who has exactly one playoff win, but I don’t think there are that many starting quarterbacks in the league right now who are capable of winning one based on their talents and limitations.

Kirk is not having his best statistical year this season, but I’d take him over probably 25 other starters in the league right now. Heck he might even be higher than that. Mahomes, Allen, burrow, hurts…borderline guys like Dak and Lamar Jackson. I’d take Kirk over Tua and Herbert all day. And he’s never had a good offensive line his entire time here. Ever. He’s not missed a single game due to injury. Kirk isn’t a superstar, but think how bad it would be if we didn’t have him.
 

The Vikings spent decades looking for that steady, long term, above average QB when they had strong rosters. Finally got one in Kirk and the rest of the roster is weak. Maybe zimmer was on to something ?

I'm not saying Kirk is the problem, but I think having an average QB is kind of like having a .500 record in that it makes it harder to get better.

The Vikings were historically inept at finding QBs that's for sure, but typically, teams run through bad QBs until they find a top of the line model they roll with for a decade or so. I want the top of the line model, we're long overdue for one. But you usually can't get a Joe Burrow until you toss your still usable Andy Dalton to the curb.

[gunnarthor]

I gotta say, I'm enjoying this season a lot, even though I know they won't win the super bowl. The Packers suck, we'll probably be the 2 or 3 seed. Outside of Philly, no team is complete. Jefferson is fun to watch, Darrisaw looked really good before his injury. I like the new TE. That we're winning when the defense is this bad is nice.

[Mike Sixel]

35 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

I gotta say, I'm enjoying this season a lot, even though I know they won't win the super bowl. The Packers suck, we'll probably be the 2 or 3 seed. Outside of Philly, no team is complete. Jefferson is fun to watch, Darrisaw looked really good before his injury. I like the new TE. That we're winning when the defense is this bad is nice.

Right, this is definitely a "ride" not "destination" season. I'm good with that.

[Danchat]

On 12/13/2022 at 9:22 AM, Aggies7 said:

Yep, and I believed zimmer was the right guy at the time with that group. Turns out he was a pariah and disliked in the locker room.
 

You wonder how that group would have done with a guy like KOC? He seems to be the right guy (despite his inane goal line jump pass that swung the entire game on Sunday). Unfortunately with the poor drafts and lack of salary cap room, I can see him being a casualty if we go through a rebuild. Just the nature of the league and the story of the Vikings. Timing has never been our thing.

I think Zimmer was more of a shelf life coach, he was doing a great job and the players loved him 2014-2017, but it was around the signing of Kirk that Zimmer got grumpier and grated on the players more, until he became unbearable. There were red flags in that good stretch (2016 stands out with Zimmer undermining Norv Turner, which we now know during that point he was consulting with Hue Jackson of all people for advice on offense). The real blunder was extending him and Spielman after thinking the 2019 was something worth celebrating, while trouble was clearly brewing in the background.