Buxton

[Caw]

Anyone wondering how buxton became an all star? Yet another season below 100 games, too many strike outs to count, too many DH times at bat to really be considered a full time player. How old is this guy?? 

[ICTwin25]

Well, he's tied for 29th in WAR at 4.1. He is 21st in OPS. He is 8th in home runs. Does that answer why he was and is a star?

Injuries are a part of the game. It sucks because when he's healthy he is probably the best CF in baseball.

[gunnarthor]

3 hours ago, Caw said:

Anyone wondering how buxton became an all star? Yet another season below 100 games, too many strike outs to count, too many DH times at bat to really be considered a full time player. How old is this guy?? 

He's 9th in the AL in fWAR despite playing about 30 games less than the leader. So, no, not a question at all on why he's an all-star. I'm very happy he was an all-star.

[theBOMisthebomb]

I'm all for criticizing a professional athlete when it's warranted. This doesn't feel like one of those times. All indications and from Rocco's quotes the other day, Buxton gave everything he had to stay on the field. We can criticize the contract and maybe Buxton's body isn't built to play a full MLB season for whatever reason. To question Buxton's talent and desire doesn't compute.

[bean5302]

He became an All Star based on prestige and popularity from exceptional plays. He was the 4th best center fielder in the AL when he was elected to the All Star team.

[Otto von Ballpark]

4 hours ago, bean5302 said:

He became an All Star based on prestige and popularity from exceptional plays

Also 2022 performance.

Buxton was 5th in fWAR among AL outfielders (and only a rounding error behind #4) when he was announced as an all-star reserve. That's a counting stat, so it reflects how much he was able to play (and penalizes him for time spent at DH). By rate, he was 6th in wRC+ (and again, only a rounding error behind #4).

The only guys clearly ahead of Buxton in either metric were Trout, Judge, and Yordan Alvarez. Judge and Trout were elected as starters (along with Stanton). Trout was injured so Buxton replaced him in the starting lineup; Alvarez was named as a reserve but also missed the game due to injury.

[bean5302]

48 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

Also 2022 performance.

Buxton was 5th in fWAR among AL outfielders (and only a rounding error behind #4) when he was announced as an all-star reserve. That's a counting stat, so it reflects how much he was able to play (and penalizes him for time spent at DH). By rate, he was 6th in wRC+ (and again, only a rounding error behind #4).

The only guys clearly ahead of Buxton in either metric were Trout, Judge, and Yordan Alvarez. Judge and Trout were elected as starters (along with Stanton). Trout was injured so Buxton replaced him in the starting lineup; Alvarez was named as a reserve but also missed the game due to injury.

Thanks to the positional bonus.... basically, what you're saying here is left and right fielders should never be allowed in the All Star Game. We should also re-write the All Star Game Balloting to feature infielders so nobody but shortstops deserve an election.

People round these parts sure love love love them some Buxton. They never miss the opportunity to inflate his value.

[Otto von Ballpark]

51 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Thanks to the positional bonus.... basically, what you're saying here is left and right fielders should never be allowed in the All Star Game.

There's no "positional bonus" in wRC+. Buxton was in a virtual tie with 2 others for 4th place by that measure.

And the top 9 qualified AL outfielders by wRC+ on that date made the all star team, regardless of CF/LF/RF. There's no case that Buxton should have been excluded from the team.

There's a case that Julio Rodríguez could have started instead of Buxton, but they were close: virtually tied by wRC+, although Rodríguez had more PA. And despite Buxton getting the starting assignment, Rodríguez took over for him in the 4th and played the last 6 innings in CF. (Both got 2 PA.)

[prouster]

Yeah! And Joe Mauer's contract is still dragging down the team, too!

[Number3]

On 8/24/2022 at 9:58 AM, ICTwin25 said:

Well, he's tied for 29th in WAR at 4.1. He is 21st in OPS. He is 8th in home runs. Does that answer why he was and is a star?

Injuries are a part of the game. It sucks because when he's healthy he is probably the best CF in baseball.

WAR means nothing. Totally dependent upon the "R" part of it. He did carry the team for about the first 20 games. Unfortunately the season is 162 games. As far as  injuries are a part of the game, Buxton remains a walking injury report and ability without availability is useless. He should be able to play hurt (not injured) and still contribute if he is the best CF in baseball. Instead they treat him like a new born. No one doubts his talent. Applying that talent reliably is apparently something the Twins do not expect him to do. Maybe afraid of losing trade value.

[Boom Boom]

There's a ton of players who were selected to the all-star team that didn't deserve it.  I don't know why Buxton would stand out as an egregious example of this.  It's mostly subjective like gold gloves or manager of the year.

I think the Twins need another good CF on the team so there isn't such a huge drop-off when Buxton is out.  And they need to do a better job of keeping him fresh during the season so he doesn't fall apart late.

 

[bean5302]

17 hours ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

There's no "positional bonus" in wRC+. Buxton was in a virtual tie with 2 others for 4th place by that measure.

And the top 9 qualified AL outfielders by wRC+ on that date made the all star team, regardless of CF/LF/RF. There's no case that Buxton should have been excluded from the team.

There's a case that Julio Rodríguez could have started instead of Buxton, but they were close: virtually tied by wRC+, although Rodríguez had more PA. And despite Buxton getting the starting assignment, Rodríguez took over for him in the 4th and played the last 6 innings in CF. (Both got 2 PA.)

Well, you've honestly got me there. I didn't look at the stats for corner outfielders back when the question of whether or not Buxton deserved to start (he didn't) in the All Star game. I still don't like the concept of "outfielder" vs. left field/right field/center field, but that's how it works. Based on the rules, I'd have to say Buxton definitely deserved to be an All Star.

[bean5302]

2 hours ago, prouster said:

Yeah! And Joe Mauer's contract is still dragging down the team, too!

Damn that Mauer!

[Fritzderkat]

Unfortunately for the oft-injured Buxton, he was half of the Buxton-Sano Promise that for years served to maintain optimism in this franchise's registered hope, present and future, and it would appear that this has failed.

[Emjay]

All Star game and its subsequent "all stars" is a bunch of krap anyway; it is a popularity contest; especially for large market teams/players. Why was Buxton there? I have no idea; ironic that he did hit the winning homerun, but of course, small market, so no MVP. It's all a joke

[AlwaysinModeration]

4 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Well, you've honestly got me there. I didn't look at the stats for corner outfielders back when the question of whether or not Buxton deserved to start (he didn't) in the All Star game. I still don't like the concept of "outfielder" vs. left field/right field/center field, but that's how it works. Based on the rules, I'd have to say Buxton definitely deserved to be an All Star.

Wait, what?!?  I was ready for the fireworks!  I don’t understand this line “guess you are right” line of argument at all!

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, AlwaysinModeration said:

Wait, what?!?  I was ready for the fireworks!  I don’t understand this line “guess you are right” line of argument at all!

It doesn't count unless the magic playground incantation is uttered: "You're right, I'm wrong, I stink, you're great."

[USAFChief]

7 hours ago, Boom Boom said:

 And they need to do a better job of keeping him fresh during the season so he doesn't fall apart late.

 

Wait...what??

[FlyingFinn]

7 hours ago, Boom Boom said:

And they need to do a better job of keeping him fresh during the season so he doesn't fall apart late.

What? Most of the people on TD have been clammering for Buxton to play more this season and mostly in CF.

[ICTwin25]

On 8/25/2022 at 10:28 AM, Number3 said:

WAR means nothing. Totally dependent upon the "R" part of it. He did carry the team for about the first 20 games. Unfortunately the season is 162 games. As far as  injuries are a part of the game, Buxton remains a walking injury report and ability without availability is useless. He should be able to play hurt (not injured) and still contribute if he is the best CF in baseball. Instead they treat him like a new born. No one doubts his talent. Applying that talent reliably is apparently something the Twins do not expect him to do. Maybe afraid of losing trade value.

He's been playing hurt for like the last 35 games, hence why he's played so much at DH. If you're really nitpicking WAR then I dont know what to tell you. It sucks he gets hurt, I agree. Every single person will tell you that his 4.1 WAR through 92 games played vastly exceeds his contract.

He is making $9.1MM this year and is tied for 32nd in WAR. Correa is making $35.1MM this year and has a WAR of 3.2 (76th) in 99 games played. 

If you want to complain about Buxton getting hurt every year then that's fine, but saying he's not valuable is downright silly.