It's Time to Shut Down Byron Buxton

[Cody Pirkl]

Byron Buxton has been playing injured literally since day one. He has grinded to be on the field as much as possible. As the season winds down and the Twins desperately need a star, however, it ironically may be time for Buxton to shut it down for good.

 

The Twins have slowly sunk from their spot in first place and are months removed from looking like a quality baseball team. As crunch time nears it’s justifiably the first thought that we want Buxton on the field no matter what to provide whatever spark he has left. It’s becoming more and more apparent for several reasons however that the Twins should just play it safe and shut their star down.

This Could Become a Bigger Injury
Buxton has dealt with a nagging knee and hip injury all season which almost certainly will take some sort of clean-up procedure this offseason. That being said, we can hope at this point that the issue can be fixed and healed to kick off 2023. We saw on Monday night however just how hobbled he is, catching balls on one leg and taking awkward follow-throughs after swings. With how physically compromised he is, there’s no doubt he’s putting himself at risk of much more serious injury as he’s forced to modify his mechanics in everything he does on the field.

An injury such as an ACL at this point would knock Buxton out for all of 2023, a season that should be prioritized at this point as the Twins are returning a better pitching staff on paper than they’ve had in several years. What Buxton has done this season is commendable, but it may have all come to a head on Monday night when he was pulled early and appeared to be completely incapable of continuing to play baseball any longer. He’s still a long-term asset for the Twins and we may have reached the point where that has to be valued above all else.

Buxton May Not Matter
Is there a case that the Twins best player not being in the lineup for the stretch run may not matter? I’d say yes given the context of the rest of the lineup. Buxton could go on an MVP level tear from now until the end of the season, and the Twins could still miss the playoffs because of what the rest of the lineup is doing. While Buxton has been struggling recently, the lineup’s inadequacies were front and center in a four-game series against the very bad Texas Rangers in which the Twins managed to score six runs total.

Injuries play a part with several potential spark plugs missing such as Larnach, Kirilloff and Lewis, but it’s hard to argue that regulars such as Correa, Polanco and Kepler haven’t pulled their weight in months. After a trade deadline in which the team patched up the pitching issues that plagued them all season, the offense has become embarrassingly bad, oftentimes being unable to overcome nights where the pitchers allow more than one run. In short, regardless of how Buxton does if the Twins rush him back, he’ll be surrounded in the lineup by some of the most anemic and situationally poor hitters in baseball for the last few months. One player can’t win all of these games. Is that worth the risk?

It would be a huge bummer to see yet another Byron Buxton season shut down by injury, but this is what we have to expect at this point. In many ways, it’s becoming more and more apparent that it’s time to set sights on 2023 with this very flawed team, and this is particularly true in the case of Byron Buxton. 

It’s a fact that a fundamentally sound roster would have opened up an insurmountable lead in the poor AL Central, and Buxton’s workload could have been managed more conservatively down the stretch as a result. Instead, the Twins are stuck in no man's land with a roster that’s difficult to take too seriously despite ample opportunity to control their own destiny. Their star was pushed beyond what should have been asked as a result. At this point, the overly aggressive push in regards to Byron Buxton should be done. The priority should be the long term. It’s time to shut him down and let the AL Central cards fall where they may. 

 

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[Dman]

It might me time to shut him down but when a player has incentive clauses in his contract that becomes a tougher decision for both sides.  Shutting him down might be the right thing to do but I don't think they will do it.

[Craig Arko]

Hopefully the physicians’ recommendations will be adhered to. But he can’t be much of a difference maker if he can’t move.

[bean5302]

If it's time to shut Buxton down, then the Twins will take one of their most valuable players out of the lineup while they're in desperate need to win games.

I'm so tired of these threads every time Buxton doesn't go 5/5 with 5 home runs and 5 stolen bases (yes, I know that's almost theoretically impossible) because everybody knows a healthy Buxton has never hit a ball with an exit velocity below 300mph and it's impossible he could ever strike out if his <insert body part> wasn't hurting him.

Since the All Star Game .247/.337/.461 OPS .798 wRC+ 131
August .245/.362/.388 OPS .750 wRC+ 124

This absolute obsession with the idea Buxton cannot possibly slump drives me insane. He's a high strikeout, low walk (moderate walk this year) hitter with a lot of power which is going to always make him prone to feast and famine at the plate.

Many of Buxton's injuries are chronic, meaning they will likely never disappear. Chronic wrist, chronic back, chronic hip, chronic knees, chronic migraines. This is why Buxton is such a tough case at him playing a full season. Shutting him down will not likely make these go away. Ever. If they shut him down for 5 years and just brought him back for the final year of his contract, he'd STILL HAVE THESE ISSUES.

If the Twins feel Buxton's condition could deteriorate and cause permanent issues, they'll shut him down. If it's just a matter of playing through pain and treatment for chronic ailments they were already aware of, they'll keep sending him out as much as they can.

[MABB1959]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

If the Twins feel Buxton's condition could deteriorate and cause permanent issues, they'll shut him down. If it's just a matter of playing through pain and treatment for chronic ailments they were already aware of, they'll keep sending him out as much as they can.

They need to come up with a good conditioning plan for him.  Surgeries are one thing but conditioning is huge when trying to prevent injuries.  I know totally different sport but but gymnastics is a sport where all parts of the body can take a good pounding everyday.  They practice 20 hours a week but at least 5 hours of that is pure conditioning.  Good core strength is the key.  

[mikelink45]

I have had many injuries from my life of outdoor activities and guiding and sometimes an injury can be dealt with and other times it requires actions that no one wants to contemplate.  It is time for a real assessment for the future.  What is best for both Byron and the team going forward.  Not our emotional fan takes, but somewhere there must be a doctor who knows what is right.

[jimbo92107]

Incentive clauses? What do they matter if his knee is wrecked for 2023? Shut him down. A few more futile home runs won't put this injury-plagued team back in contention. 

[chpettit19]

18 minutes ago, MABB1959 said:

They need to come up with a good conditioning plan for him.  Surgeries are one thing but conditioning is huge when trying to prevent injuries.  I know totally different sport but but gymnastics is a sport where all parts of the body can take a good pounding everyday.  They practice 20 hours a week but at least 5 hours of that is pure conditioning.  Good core strength is the key.  

Do you look at Buxton and see someone who isn't following a good conditioning plan? There's a number of articles out there that you can find about his running routine during the offseason to keep his speed and stay in shape. Buxton works his tail off. Somebody doesn't have to have failed at something for them to be injury prone. Sometimes their bodies just weren't meant to do the things professional athletes do with their bodies. Sucks, but it happens. There's no reason to believe Buxton's injuries have anything to do with lack of effort on his part.

[Whitey333]

A little slump?  Byron has been taking hitting results right next to Correa for the past nearly 3 months.  At least Buxton has an injury excuse.  Correa not so much.  Buxton over eight years now is hurt.  Hurt a lot.  It's part of what he is.  It isn't likely to change.  But here we have people worried that our " best player" being on IL for 10 days is going to ruin the Twins chances.  Let's get serious.  Of the 10 games missed he would have only played 6 or 7 of those games anyway.  He and Correa are battling out to see who is the biggest flop since June 1.  I vote Correa as the bigger flop but Buxton has been no prize.  He has hit 28 Homer's and plays a good center field.  He is poor at hitting in the clutch and is totally unreliable for play.  Yes I wish Buxton didn't have to go on IL but his lack of production over the past couple of months will make it a mute point.  If the team does not win the division it's not going to fall on Buxton.  There's a lot to go around.

[chpettit19]

1. Buxton is now on the 10 day IL so your wishes have come true. Hip strain.

2. Why do we assume the team, and, more importantly, Byron himself, haven't been doing what is medically right for him this entire season? Do we think Byron, and the team, are being told he needs to shut it down or he's risking his career? Or do we think they're being told playing on it is purely about pain tolerance and the only risk for long-term damage is the same as the risk everyone else faces because of the type of injury he's dealing with? I'd assume the Twins want Byron around for the entirety of his contract, and I'd assume Byron wants to continue playing major league baseball for the entirety of his contract. Why do we think they're ignoring things and pushing him harder than doctors who've actually seen his medical reports say they should push him? Why can't we just accept that everyone involved want what's best for Byron to perform at a high level for the next 6 years and they're doing what they should be doing? They've told us time and again that shutting him down won't fix his knee, but playing on it won't hurt it more. Why can't we just let that be the answer for this season?

[dogsday]

According to MLB Trade Rumors Buck to IL earlier today. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/08/twins-to-place-byron-buxton-on-injured-list.html

[chpettit19]

15 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

A little slump?  Byron has been taking hitting results right next to Correa for the past nearly 3 months.  At least Buxton has an injury excuse.  Correa not so much.  Buxton over eight years now is hurt.  Hurt a lot.  It's part of what he is.  It isn't likely to change.  But here we have people worried that our " best player" being on IL for 10 days is going to ruin the Twins chances.  Let's get serious.  Of the 10 games missed he would have only played 6 or 7 of those games anyway.  He and Correa are battling out to see who is the biggest flop since June 1.  I vote Correa as the bigger flop but Buxton has been no prize.  He has hit 28 Homer's and plays a good center field.  He is poor at hitting in the clutch and is totally unreliable for play.  Yes I wish Buxton didn't have to go on IL but his lack of production over the past couple of months will make it a mute point.  If the team does not win the division it's not going to fall on Buxton.  There's a lot to go around.

Since June 1 (date you suggested he's been bad since) Byron Buxton has hit 17 HRs (tied for 9th in all of baseball in that time frame), and had a triple slash of .236/.323/.552 which is good for a 149 wRC+. If being 49% better than the average major league hitter is not just a "little slump," but something much worse than that, as you suggest, I can't even imagine how good he is when he isn't in a massive slump.

[Cody Pirkl]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

If it's time to shut Buxton down, then the Twins will take one of their most valuable players out of the lineup while they're in desperate need to win games.

I'm so tired of these threads every time Buxton doesn't go 5/5 with 5 home runs and 5 stolen bases (yes, I know that's almost theoretically impossible) because everybody knows a healthy Buxton has never hit a ball with an exit velocity below 300mph and it's impossible he could ever strike out if his <insert body part> wasn't hurting him.

Since the All Star Game .247/.337/.461 OPS .798 wRC+ 131
August .245/.362/.388 OPS .750 wRC+ 124

This absolute obsession with the idea Buxton cannot possibly slump drives me insane. He's a high strikeout, low walk (moderate walk this year) hitter with a lot of power which is going to always make him prone to feast and famine at the plate.

Many of Buxton's injuries are chronic, meaning they will likely never disappear. Chronic wrist, chronic back, chronic hip, chronic knees, chronic migraines. This is why Buxton is such a tough case at him playing a full season. Shutting him down will not likely make these go away. Ever. If they shut him down for 5 years and just brought him back for the final year of his contract, he'd STILL HAVE THESE ISSUES.

If the Twins feel Buxton's condition could deteriorate and cause permanent issues, they'll shut him down. If it's just a matter of playing through pain and treatment for chronic ailments they were already aware of, they'll keep sending him out as much as they can.

At no point do I cite the slump he's in for why he should be shut down. My point was A. That he could come back on fire and the team may still be bad enough to miss the playoffs and B. That it's not worth the risk of an injury that extends into 2023 which if you watched last night's game is a real possibility. He couldn't even camp under fly balls last night with his full weight on both legs. He's not helping anybody if that's where his body is at and he's just putting himself at additional risk.

[Doctor Gast]

It's been evident to me for a little while now that Buck needs some time on the IL to recuperate. Hope that test results show that w/ that time off he can come back & perform at least for post season if we can make it there w/o him but the way things are we won't w/ him. Buck is the spark plug of this team we need him well.

[Cody Pirkl]

12 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

1. Buxton is now on the 10 day IL so your wishes have come true. Hip strain.

2. Why do we assume the team, and, more importantly, Byron himself, haven't been doing what is medically right for him this entire season? Do we think Byron, and the team, are being told he needs to shut it down or he's risking his career? Or do we think they're being told playing on it is purely about pain tolerance and the only risk for long-term damage is the same as the risk everyone else faces because of the type of injury he's dealing with? I'd assume the Twins want Byron around for the entirety of his contract, and I'd assume Byron wants to continue playing major league baseball for the entirety of his contract. Why do we think they're ignoring things and pushing him harder than doctors who've actually seen his medical reports say they should push him? Why can't we just accept that everyone involved want what's best for Byron to perform at a high level for the next 6 years and they're doing what they should be doing? They've told us time and again that shutting him down won't fix his knee, but playing on it won't hurt it more. Why can't we just let that be the answer for this season?

My point is I think the team and his body have reached the point where whatever procedure he needs done should probably just be done. He could barely walk last night and if guys like Correa and Polanco aren't going to do their jobs then there's nothing the Twins can do with or without Buxton that'll get them into the playoffs

[Unwinder]

He needs some time to sit back and go to the state fair.

[chpettit19]

Just now, Cody Pirkl said:

My point is I think the team and his body have reached the point where whatever procedure he needs done should probably just be done. He could barely walk last night and if guys like Correa and Polanco aren't going to do their jobs then there's nothing the Twins can do with or without Buxton that'll get them into the playoffs

Do you have quotes from team officials, or Buxton himself, saying he'll need a procedure? What is the knee injury he's suffering from, and what is the procedure that fixes it? My point is you don't know that he'll need a procedure, or that he's risking an ACL injury (as you suggest without any basis from what I can see) by simply playing through the current pain. My point is none of us are doctors who have seen his medicals, thus have no basis to assume any of the things you're assuming.

The people who have far more invested in his health than any of us have decided the best thing for him, and the team, this year and into the future was to play CF sparingly and DH on most other days. Why can't we just assume at the very least Byron has enough self preservation desire that he wouldn't risk next season, or his career, by playing through something he shouldn't? Instead you assume you know more about how his knee should be handled than the doctors paid to know such things.

[Cody Pirkl]

Just now, chpettit19 said:

Do you have quotes from team officials, or Buxton himself, saying he'll need a procedure? What is the knee injury he's suffering from, and what is the procedure that fixes it? My point is you don't know that he'll need a procedure, or that he's risking an ACL injury (as you suggest without any basis from what I can see) by simply playing through the current pain. My point is none of us are doctors who have seen his medicals, thus have no basis to assume any of the things you're assuming.

The people who have far more invested in his health than any of us have decided the best thing for him, and the team, this year and into the future was to play CF sparingly and DH on most other days. Why can't we just assume at the very least Byron has enough self preservation desire that he wouldn't risk next season, or his career, by playing through something he shouldn't? Instead you assume you know more about how his knee should be handled than the doctors paid to know such things.

I think its probably safe to assume when they say "time off won't fix it" that it's going to require some kind of surgical procedure. And in regards to further injury, again, go back and watch him last night. He's running around on one leg which is how further injury happens.

I don't think its that much of a stretch to draw these conclusions based on the info we have available. 

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Cody Pirkl said:

I think its probably safe to assume when they say "time off won't fix it" that it's going to require some kind of surgical procedure. And in regards to further injury, again, go back and watch him last night. He's running around on one leg which is how further injury happens.

I don't think its that much of a stretch to draw these conclusions based on the info we have available. 

Buxton is playing through tendinitis in his knee (according to Do-Hyoung Park). Surgery is absolutely not a safe assumption as tendinitis is rarely treated with surgery. Now it's completely possible that he does end up having a debridement procedure during the offseason, but it shouldn't just be assumed.  "Time off won't fix it" isn't their stance. "If it's going to be something if he took significant time off, would he just be dealing with the same symptoms within a few games of returning? That's possible, too," is their stance. Their stance is that a 10 day IL stint won't be enough to fix it and he needs far more time off than that to do the therapies to get it right, without surgery, so putting him on the 10 day IL wouldn't help his knee situation enough to matter as he'd still be playing through pain when he came back.

His hip flared up last night and changed the situation. The hip isn't something he can play through and he needed to go on the IL for it. When the situation called for it they shut him down. Just like I'd think the assumption should be. When shutting it down is in the best interest of everyone involved (team and player) they shut the player down. I just don't get why we'd think any team, or player, would be actively going against what the medical professionals say is the best.

Or why a team should give up on a season on August 23rd when they're 2 games back with 17 games left against the 2 teams they're battling for the division title.

[SanoMustGo]

2 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Buxton is playing through tendinitis in his knee (according to Do-Hyoung Park). Surgery is absolutely not a safe assumption as tendinitis is rarely treated with surgery. Now it's completely possible that he does end up having a debridement procedure during the offseason, but it shouldn't just be assumed.  "Time off won't fix it" isn't their stance. "If it's going to be something if he took significant time off, would he just be dealing with the same symptoms within a few games of returning? That's possible, too," is their stance. Their stance is that a 10 day IL stint won't be enough to fix it and he needs far more time off than that to do the therapies to get it right, without surgery, so putting him on the 10 day IL wouldn't help his knee situation enough to matter as he'd still be playing through pain when he came back.

His hip flared up last night and changed the situation. The hip isn't something he can play through and he needed to go on the IL for it. When the situation called for it they shut him down. Just like I'd think the assumption should be. When shutting it down is in the best interest of everyone involved (team and player) they shut the player down. I just don't get why we'd think any team, or player, would be actively going against what the medical professionals say is the best.

Or why a team should give up on a season on August 23rd when they're 2 games back with 17 games left against the 2 teams they're battling for the division title.

I have a feeling when we get to those games against the Sox and Cle at the end of the season we will be more than 2 games back.  And, unless this team shows us something they have not since, early June, there is no point in pushing Buxton.  If we get swept by Houston this team will be on a 35-45 stretch.  Which is half a season worth of games. Frankly I think the goose will be cooked by the end of the Yankee series.

[Cody Pirkl]

6 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Buxton is playing through tendinitis in his knee (according to Do-Hyoung Park). Surgery is absolutely not a safe assumption as tendinitis is rarely treated with surgery. Now it's completely possible that he does end up having a debridement procedure during the offseason, but it shouldn't just be assumed.  "Time off won't fix it" isn't their stance. "If it's going to be something if he took significant time off, would he just be dealing with the same symptoms within a few games of returning? That's possible, too," is their stance. Their stance is that a 10 day IL stint won't be enough to fix it and he needs far more time off than that to do the therapies to get it right, without surgery, so putting him on the 10 day IL wouldn't help his knee situation enough to matter as he'd still be playing through pain when he came back.

His hip flared up last night and changed the situation. The hip isn't something he can play through and he needed to go on the IL for it. When the situation called for it they shut him down. Just like I'd think the assumption should be. When shutting it down is in the best interest of everyone involved (team and player) they shut the player down. I just don't get why we'd think any team, or player, would be actively going against what the medical professionals say is the best.

Or why a team should give up on a season on August 23rd when they're 2 games back with 17 games left against the 2 teams they're battling for the division title.

I just don't get the attitude behind everything you've posted like it's the dumbest idea ever for a team to shut down their star long term asset who's been injured all season when the team is sinking like a stone. I think theyll be much better in 2023 and would like him there for that. If you'd prefer they bring him back in 10 days no matter what and aggressively play him until he pulls up looking like he did last night or worse that's totally fine, agree to disagree.

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, SanoMustGo said:

I have a feeling when we get to those games against the Sox and Cle at the end of the season we will be more than 2 games back.  And, unless this team shows us something they have not since, early June, there is no point in pushing Buxton.  If we get swept by Houston this team will be on a 35-45 stretch.  Which is half a season worth of games. Frankly I think the goose will be cooked by the end of the Yankee series.

Luckily for the sports world your feeling doesn't decide who gets to make the playoffs in any given league. And hopefully, for Twins fans in general, the team doesn't agree with your and Cody's assessments and decide to just go home before September even starts.

[Cody Pirkl]

9 minutes ago, SanoMustGo said:

I have a feeling when we get to those games against the Sox and Cle at the end of the season we will be more than 2 games back.  And, unless this team shows us something they have not since, early June, there is no point in pushing Buxton.  If we get swept by Houston this team will be on a 35-45 stretch.  Which is half a season worth of games. Frankly I think the goose will be cooked by the end of the Yankee series.

My point exactly. I wrote this prior to him going on the IL and I just didn't want to see them rest him for a day or 2 and send him back out given how rough he looked yesterday. They basically bought themselves 10 days at this point. If the team plays as poorly as they have been they could be 5+ games out of 1st at which point there's no reason to bring him back if he's not 100%.

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, Cody Pirkl said:

I just don't get the attitude behind everything you've posted like it's the dumbest idea ever for a team to shut down their star long term asset who's been injured all season when the team is sinking like a stone. I think theyll be much better in 2023 and would like him there for that. If you'd prefer they bring him back in 10 days no matter what and aggressively play him until he pulls up looking like he did last night or worse that's totally fine, agree to disagree.

I don't get the attitude behind shutting down your star player when the doctors say there's no reason to. My point is you have no reason to believe he's risking greater injury. Everything the team has said all season long is that he's not risking greater injury by playing on his knee. Thus your argument shouldn't just be for Buxton, but should be for Polanco, Arraez, Miranda, Gordon, Mahle, Gray, Ryan, Duran, and everyone else on the team with more control beyond this year since they all risk blowing out a knee every time they step on the field just like Buxton does.

Yes, I want them to play him as much as he can play while they're fighting for a playoff spot. I'm sorry I haven't given up on the season on August 23rd with the hope they will be drastically better in 2023. If they're not drastically better next year what month should they shut him down in? July? Have to make sure he doesn't blow out a knee in early August in case they're drastically better in 2024.

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Cody Pirkl said:

My point exactly. I wrote this prior to him going on the IL and I just didn't want to see them rest him for a day or 2 and send him back out given how rough he looked yesterday. They basically bought themselves 10 days at this point. If the team plays as poorly as they have been they could be 5+ games out of 1st at which point there's no reason to bring him back if he's not 100%.

The 2009 and 2010 Twins teams were both more than 5 games out going into September and both made the playoffs. Why are we giving up on a team in August?

[SanoMustGo]

Just now, chpettit19 said:

Luckily for the sports world your feeling doesn't decide who gets to make the playoffs in any given league. And hopefully, for Twins fans in general, the team doesn't agree with your and Cody's assessments and decide to just go home before September even starts.

All I'm saying is I have seen nothing the past 80 games that makes me believe this team has anything left.  If the team was healthy and guys performing, it would be different.  This team the way it is will not be good enough to have any real success against any of the teams listed above.  Those teams are just flat out better than the Twins in their current state.   And weather the team agrees with my sentiment won't make them play any better.  You may have a different assessment, but they are based on fact, not hope or lack there of.

[SanoMustGo]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

The 2009 and 2010 Twins teams were both more than 5 games out going into September and both made the playoffs. Why are we giving up on a team in August?

No one is giving up, we are just looking at the make up of the team and being realistic.  The 2009 and 2010 teams would destroy the team taking the field tonight.

[chpettit19]

Just now, SanoMustGo said:

All I'm saying is I have seen nothing the past 80 games that makes me believe this team has anything left.  If the team was healthy and guys performing, it would be different.  This team the way it is will not be good enough to have any real success against any of the teams listed above.  Those teams are just flat out better than the Twins in their current state.   And weather the team agrees with my sentiment won't make them play any better.  You may have a different assessment, but they are based on fact, not hope or lack there of.

But you've been saying that the last 30 games and they still haven't fallen out of the race. This division is awful. The Twins should be getting multiple players back in September. Maybe they'll come to life like the 2009 and 2010 teams and chase down the division title. Maybe they won't. But why would we ever want to give up on a season with over a month to go when they're only 2 games out? I'm not predicting a WS title. Not even a playoff win. But why just throw in the towel in August?

[wsnydes]

Shutting Buxton down is folding the season.  As abyssal as the offense has been with him, it doesn't take much imagination to see what it'll be without him.  If they wouldn't shut him down earlier to deal with his lingering issues, doing it now doesn't make much sense if the goal is still a playoff push.  And if the goal wasn't a playoff push in the first place, why wasn't he shut down earlier?

[Cody Pirkl]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

The 2009 and 2010 Twins teams were both more than 5 games out going into September and both made the playoffs. Why are we giving up on a team in August?

Because they've been a straight up bad team since May and it comes down to more than just "giving up" as I've pointed out. I think we need to just agree to disagree on this one because I see you're quoting every single comment in the thread that slightly suggests that the team may not be very good.