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Angels 4, Twins 2: Road Trip Ends in Bitter Disappointment Against Anaheim

Theo Tollefson
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joemama Prep Ball

joemama

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I'm losing (maybe have lost) faith in Baldelli to manage this team. I wonder if the players have. His quick hook and overuse of the bullpen (which includes ANY use of The Pagan Sacrifice) has to frustrate everyone. Bundy got pulled after 5 innings, 65 pitches, 2 hits, 1 walk. WTF?! And why wasn't Kepler forced to prove he was able to hit in a rehab assignment? He clearly isn't ready. But Rocco still pinch-hit him. Stupid. Just stupid.

(w/ credit for "The Pagan Sacrifice" moniker to another fan who posted it several weeks ago.)

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Blyleven2011 Draft Eligible

Blyleven2011

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1 hour ago, Mark G said:

They have scored 3 or less in 47% of their games so far this year.

I am not a person that likes excuses  ....

The twins had the depth to fill all the injuries up to the allstar game , but since they brought up certain personal that were playing very well in AAA  the offense has really been flat ....

Batting kepler fourth is a real head scratcher  , he struck out twice on Sunday  ....

Todays lineup looked like a good one for the first time this year , batting Arraez,  Correa ahead of Buxton  ( which surprised me , I thought he would be resting on Sunday  , looks like he be resting Monday to start the home series ) ....

The twins are not hitting homeruns  and the manager has not made any adjustments to this ( baseball is a game of inches and adjustments  ) , his plan and FO is not working  and I think the players are getting frustrated  with the plan and its effecting their play ,  if Correa opts out I wouldn't be surprised  someday that Correa  speaks out about the twins plan  ....

Whatever happened to the twins way when they clobbered their opponents  with better competive games  ....

We need  a fix that the FO and manager don't see or they just won't deviate from it

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roger GCL Twins

roger

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I was so excited after the moves they made at the trade deadline.  Mahle seems to be a good move and Leon has been a remarkable find.  But both of the relievers have not only helped fix the bullpen problems, they both have been huge short-term disappointments.

Will agree with those that talk about the team playing like a team that has given up.  Don't know what the fix is, unfortunately it seems that the manager and coaching staff doesn't know either.  

Looked at all the box scores in this morning's Strib.  Saw that the vast majority of starting pitchers yesterday pitched 6 or more innings.  But not the Twins.  Unfortunately, the pitching staff wasn't constructed to have starters go twice thru the order and be done.  Listening to Baldelli on the pre-game show Saturday, heard him actually mis-speak and correct himself when he mentioned 6 innings for a starter.  Gotta believe that in his mind pitchers SHOULD NOT pitch to batters, any batter, more than twice. 

If the Twins are going to be the only team in baseball to have all starters limited to 4-5 innings, then why not go to a four man starting rotation?  Back that up with three relievers who pitch 2-3 innings every third day and the bullpen wouldn't be so chaotic and overworked.  Unfortunately, that change needs to be made over the winter and in spring training.  It may be easier in my mind to change the coaching staff and get someone who understands how everyone else is playing the game.  Yes, if this is the beginning of the end for the Twins this year, if they have quit, I believe the FO needs to change the on field leadership this winter.

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rv78 First Round Pick

rv78

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Where's the Bomba Squad when you need them Mr Baldelli? Easy MOY award for Baldelli when the team sets a record for HR. Not so easy when they don't. FYI Mr Baldelli, you actually have to manage games now. How's your "Plan" going? Good Managers make adjustments to "Plans" to win games. Poor Managers don't. I could point to mistakes made in almost every game this year with the most obvious ones being setting lineups to managing the pitching staff. Both have been laughable. April and May the Twins were lucky, it has caught up to them in June, July and August. I'm pretty sure the games in September won't mean much unless the "Plan" changes within the next week or two and that will be the only way there will be playoff games in October.

Just looking at Sunday's game I believe it was the first time all year that both Arraez and Correa hit in front of Buxton. Polanco should have been there too with Buxton batting 4th. How many times has Buck hit leadoff with no one on base ahead of him? Lots. Result = Solo HR. Yesterday with 1 guy on ahead of him = 2 runs. DOUBLE the run production. Amazing how simple it is. Yes they still lost but the "Plan" used for most of the season would have been 1 run scored for the game. How many games is Archer going to be allowed to start when he will only go 4 innings? Evidently the answer is, all of them. How about moving him to the bullpen and make him a 2-3 inning reliever, DFA Pagan and promote Aaron Sanchez to start in his spot in the rotation. At least TRY something different to fix the current problem. They say doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results is insanity. Before it becomes insanity, it's stupidity.

Anyone here able to figure out why they lost the game Saturday when the bullpen imploded? 95% of you can but the Manager can't or just refuses to believe it. How many times does he have to see, even his best relievers blow games, because he uses them on back to back days. Anyone can tell you that using a pitcher on two consecutive days is a recipe for disaster but he refuses to look at those numbers. Very few pitchers are capable of being as effective the 2nd day as they were the day before. And like so many others here have said, the more pitchers you use the better chance you have of having at least one of them going out there and NOT being effective. It's just simple odds... and again numbers that Rocco ignores. Friday could and should have been Mahle for 7, Fulmer in the 8th and Duran in the 9th. Saturday could and should have been Bundy for 6, Theilbar in the 7th, Jax in the 8th and Lopez in the 9th. Sunday could and should have been Sanchez for 5, Megill and Archer for the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th. If they would have gotten the lead back then he would have had a fresh Duran for the 9th. The constant underuse of the starters and overuse of the bullpen maybe worked to some extent in April and May when the bullpen pitchers weren't gassed from overuse but it's more than obvious that it has caught up with them and with 2 new arms acquired at the deadline, Rocco will burn them out as well. 

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Blyleven2011 Draft Eligible

Blyleven2011

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3 minutes ago, rv78 said:

Where's the Bomba Squad when you need them Mr Baldelli? Easy MOY award for Baldelli when the team sets a record for HR. Not so easy when they don't. FYI Mr Baldelli, you actually have to manage games now. How's your "Plan" going? Good Managers make adjustments to "Plans" to win games. Poor Managers don't. I could point to mistakes made in almost every game this year with the most obvious ones being setting lineups to managing the pitching staff. Both have been laughable. April and May the Twins were lucky, it has caught up to them in June, July and August. I'm pretty sure the games in September won't mean much unless the "Plan" changes within the next week or two and that will be the only way there will be playoff games in October.

Just looking at Sunday's game I believe it was the first time all year that both Arraez and Correa hit in front of Buxton. Polanco should have been there too with Buxton batting 4th. How many times has Buck hit leadoff with no one on base ahead of him? Lots. Result = Solo HR. Yesterday with 1 guy on ahead of him = 2 runs. DOUBLE the run production. Amazing how simple it is. Yes they still lost but the "Plan" used for most of the season would have been 1 run scored for the game. How many games is Archer going to be allowed to start when he will only go 4 innings? Evidently the answer is, all of them. How about moving him to the bullpen and make him a 2-3 inning reliever, DFA Pagan and promote Aaron Sanchez to start in his spot in the rotation. At least TRY something different to fix the current problem. They say doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results is insanity. Before it becomes insanity, it's stupidity.

Anyone here able to figure out why they lost the game Saturday when the bullpen imploded? 95% of you can but the Manager can't or just refuses to believe it. How many times does he have to see, even his best relievers blow games, because he uses them on back to back days. Anyone can tell you that using a pitcher on two consecutive days is a recipe for disaster but he refuses to look at those numbers. Very few pitchers are capable of being as effective the 2nd day as they were the day before. And like so many others here have said, the more pitchers you use the better chance you have of having at least one of them going out there and NOT being effective. It's just simple odds... and again numbers that Rocco ignores. Friday could and should have been Mahle for 7, Fulmer in the 8th and Duran in the 9th. Saturday could and should have been Bundy for 6, Theilbar in the 7th, Jax in the 8th and Lopez in the 9th. Sunday could and should have been Sanchez for 5, Megill and Archer for the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th. If they would have gotten the lead back then he would have had a fresh Duran for the 9th. The constant underuse of the starters and overuse of the bullpen maybe worked to some extent in April and May when the bullpen pitchers weren't gassed from overuse but it's more than obvious that it has caught up with them and with 2 new arms acquired at the deadline, Rocco will burn them out as well. 

I DITTO  every word  .... 

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DJL44 GCL Twins

DJL44

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15 minutes ago, rv78 said:

DFA Pagan and promote Aaron Sanchez to start in his spot in the rotation.

I am not a fan of revolving door of bad pitching trying to throw spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. Pagan is on the team because he's probably better than what they have in AAA. There is no real help in the minors at the moment.

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tony&rodney GCL Twins

tony&rodney

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11 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I am not a fan of revolving door of bad pitching trying to throw spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. Pagan is on the team because he's probably better than what they have in AAA. There is no real help in the minors at the moment.

Normally, I would agree that using a revolving door of players doesn't necessarily bring better outcomes. Duffey and Smith were no longer effective pitchers for a team trying to win games. Pagan has better velocity but putting the ball on a tee repeatedly has proven through several years and many opportunities that Pagan is not a good choice if a team wants to win some games. The chances that A Sanchez does as poorly as Pagan are low and besides they would be used differently. Frankly it puzzles me why we have not seen Archer transitioned into the bullpen as a two inning option. I wonder if his contract contains specific usage details, which would be odd. Jovani Moran is an obvious improvement despite the walks.

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AceWrigley First Round Pick

AceWrigley

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If this were 1969, in April manager Billy Martin would have confronted Tyler Duffey on his conditioning in a hotel elevator where scuffling and punches could ensue and the team would have a completely different demeanor, not roll over and play dead in a pennant race.

The pitching staff is the pitching staff, but we have to score some of the runners we're putting on base. C'mon!

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rv78 First Round Pick

rv78

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1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

Small Sample Size applies here

Then we can assume the use of Archer to this point is a large sample size and ignoring the results are, in my words, either insanity or stupidity. All I am asking for is for them to TRY something different. It's not complicated, if something isn't working, sane and smart people do exactly that. Sanchez has played 1 game for the Twins this season. He threw 81 pitches over 5 innings. giving up 4 hits and 2 runs. I guess that is not worthy of another chance but Archer not being able to pitch more than 4 innings is? The Twins way is to use every player that costs them the most money regardless of how they perform. That is why they continually give Sano chances, and now Kepler and guys like Pagan and Archer and even up to the breaking point of insanity, Duffey. Meanwhile guys that are young and/or cheap get used sparingly unless it's to replace an injured veteran even when they out-perform those veterans. Gordon wouldn't be getting much playing time if there wouldn't be so many injuries to the outfielders. Miranda would probably still be in AAA if Sano was healthy. Kepler still gets to play even though his production lately and really all season has been fair to poor. They signed Correa thinking Lewis wasn't ready, yet he proved them wrong when he got the chance. Too many times this organization doesn't move on soon enough from the veterans that just can't get the job done. This season proves it. 

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DJL44 GCL Twins

DJL44

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18 minutes ago, rv78 said:

Sanchez has played 1 game for the Twins this season. He threw 81 pitches over 5 innings. giving up 4 hits and 2 runs.

Sanchez also pitched 7 games for the Nationals with an 8.62 RA9. In MLB this season he has an xWOBA in the 2nd percentile. 6th percentile in K%, one of the worst rates of hard contact among pitchers at nearly 50%. "He's different" is not a good argument for putting him in the rotation.

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rv78 First Round Pick

rv78

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On 8/5/2022 at 1:36 PM, rv78 said:

 

 

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

Sanchez also pitched 7 games for the Nationals with an 8.62 RA9. In MLB this season he has an xWOBA in the 2nd percentile. 6th percentile in K%, one of the worst rates of hard contact among pitchers at nearly 50%. "He's different" is not a good argument for putting him in the rotation.

Enlighten me how pitching poorly for the Nationals affects how he pitches for the Twins? I haven't seen it yet. So yeah, let's not even try.

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rv78 First Round Pick

rv78

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10 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Blind squirrel, meet acorn

A blind squirrel saw him pitch an effective 5 innings against Detroit. It was a miracle! Jake Cave hit a HR against the BlueJays. Let's play him as much as possible since he found an acorn, but Sanchez? Absolutely not! 

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DJL44 GCL Twins

DJL44

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9 minutes ago, rv78 said:

A blind squirrel saw him pitch an effective 5 innings against Detroit. It was a miracle! Jake Cave hit a HR against the BlueJays. Let's play him as much as possible since he found an acorn, but Sanchez? Absolutely not! 

Jake Cave is only playing because Kirilloff, Garlick and Larnach are out and Buxton and Kepler are playing injured. If we see another starting pitcher get hurt you'll get to see Aaron Sanchez again.

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rv78 First Round Pick

rv78

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3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Jake Cave is only playing because Kirilloff, Garlick and Larnach are out and Buxton and Kepler are playing injured. If we see another starting pitcher get hurt you'll get to see Aaron Sanchez again.

Gordon, Celestino, Contreras can all play besides Buxton and Kepler. Cave is not a "required" option due to injuries.

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joemama Prep Ball

joemama

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22 hours ago, joemama said:

I'm losing (maybe have lost) faith in Baldelli to manage this team. I wonder if the players have. His quick hook and overuse of the bullpen (which includes ANY use of The Pagan Sacrifice) has to frustrate everyone. Bundy got pulled after 5 innings, 65 pitches, 2 hits, 1 walk. WTF?! And why wasn't Kepler forced to prove he was able to hit in a rehab assignment? He clearly isn't ready. But Rocco still pinch-hit him. Stupid. Just stupid.

(w/ credit for "The Pagan Sacrifice" moniker to another fan who posted it several weeks ago.)

8/15 Update: Kepler is 3-3 so far tonight. I guess he's ready now!

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