Dodgers 10, Twins 3: Joe Ryan Bullied by L.A's. Bats

[ashbury]

12 hours ago, Matt Braun said:

Why did you stay up to watch this?

Matt Braun Stays Up So You Don't Have To ™

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

I see that some react to our pitching after we traded Berrios as a drowning person. They deparately grab onto anyone that faintly resemble an ace. that's what happened to Ryan. Ryan's not an ace & shouldn't have been treated as one, constantly over extending him. He;s a rookie & should have been treated as one, gradually eased into a 6+ innings routine. 

I see also 2 flawed attitudes of the Twins. They are being overwhelmed by team like NYY & LAD, they play uptight and never really get anything going to compete and the other being under whelmed with bad teams where they are way too laid back figuring they'll eventually pull one out but don't. The Twins need to master both to win the division. With Tim Anderson out, maybe our greatest threat isn't CWS but CLE.

Let's set our goal to salvage this last game w/ LAD and sweep both LAA and KC.

We did not receive Ryan in the Berrios trade

 

[h2oface]

3 hours ago, RochesterDave said:

To h2oface.  Above…. The LA fans were not chanting “Jeter”….  They were going with “CHEATER”!!  Those jeers, I must admit were world class.  Even interrupted the fans from playing with their beach balls and the wave.  The Twins fans behind the dugout were pretty much silenced the entire game.  Unfortunately I am returning tonight for what I fear will be another rout. 

Sorry you missed the joke. Of course they were yelling cheater in the torrent of impressive booing! Personally, I think he deserves it. I find it hypocritical that our home town fans ignore it. What and how the Astros cheated was horrendous, Correa was never reticent, was the most vocal about being proud of himself and his teammates, and even tried to deny that it happened. And with the complete immunity the players were given to be honest and tell the truth, he was never punished! So he deserves the attention he gets from the fans that the cheating had the largest consequences against. 

[h2oface]

19 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

We did not receive Ryan in the Berrios trade

 

He never said the Twins did. “They” refers to some fans. 

[ashbury]

3 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

I guess we stick with the analytics…..

I fully understand and respect your rationale and I see the reasoning. Arraez can theoretically play four positions: 1B, 2B, 3B, and DH. Miranda, Polanco, Urshela, Buxton and Arraez are your five players for those four spots. Miranda plays vs. a lefty. Check. Polanco plays for sure as a switch hitter. Check. So we are down to Urshela, Arraez and Buxton. Urshela is probably a better 3B than Arraez and Miranda. So the best defensive lineup, on the margin, is Urshela at 3B and Miranda at 1B, beating out the next best choice of Miranda at 3B and Arraez at 1B. Plus, Urshela has a higher OPS vs lefties. Urshela starts. Check, And Buxton has to be the DH, right? Can’t leave him on the bench. Check. Heck, maybe the next five games are scheduled against right handed starters - so best rest Luis for use the rest of the week.  Check, Check.

All that makes tremendous sense. Yet, I still disagree. There is no one on the Twins that I’d rather have hitting 4-5 times a game or with a runner on base (in scoring position or not), regardless of the lefty/righty matchup, than Arraez. Analytics, shmalytics. Arraez in the lineup with his bat and energy simply gives us a better chance.

That’s what the eyes and gut may suggest. But the arguments against that are good and understandable. The data and AI say sit Arraez. It’s an analytics world. 

I've heard some arguments against analytics, but not the left-right platoon concept that Casey Stengel was using before any of us except Chief were born.  And Stengel was hardly the inventor of it.

[RpR]

Washington took two in  a row from the Dodgers, so there is no excuse of Dodgers being one of the best as an excuse for a loss , much less a blow-out.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Unlike last night, Twins need to launch some deep threes tonite

 

[bean5302]

For the love of all that is good, Jimmy Nelson needs to give his number to "W.D. Smith" so he can use the nickname WD40.

[bean5302]

7 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I don't understand the handling of Ryan, He is not pitching well having given up at least 1 run in the first 4 innings and is brought out for the 5th. Pushing his batters faced past his average and runs up 110 pitches. Yet in his last game against a way worse team, he goes 5 gives up 1/3 of the amount of hits (3) and K's 9 guys and is pulled after 78 pitchers. WTF

If he can or they will let him pitch 110 pitches, why the heck not do it when his is going well.

Also I am starting to worry about Ryan since June his ERA is in the Bundy area.

Ryan is pitching just like he was, he's just not getting lucky. He's experiencing regression to the mean. Joe Ryan is not and has never been the kind of pitcher you'd rely upon to lead a rotation. 
Joe Ryan - April/June vs. July/Aug
3.20 ERA & 4.65 xFIP vs. 5.33 ERA & 4.61 xFIP


He's literally the same pitcher.

[TwinsDr2021]

13 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Ryan is pitching just like he was, he's just not getting lucky. He's experiencing regression to the mean. Joe Ryan is not and has never been the kind of pitcher you'd rely upon to lead a rotation. 
Joe Ryan - April/June vs. July/Aug
3.20 ERA & 4.65 xFIP vs. 5.33 ERA & 4.61 xFIP


He's literally the same pitcher.

Well that is not a good sign going forward, my rough math says he is a pitcher with an ERA of ~4.25, That is OK with a guy consistently getting his team into the 6/7th innings, but not a guy averaging 5 innings. With Ober been similar, 2023 is looking OK, but 24 is looking not good.

[bean5302]

Just now, TwinsDr2021 said:

Well that is not a good sign going forward, my rough math says he is a pitcher with an ERA of ~4.25, That is OK with a guy consistently getting his team into the 6/7th innings, but not a guy averaging 5 innings. With Ober been similar, 2023 is looking OK, but 24 is looking not good.

Joe Ryan is a young guy and still trying to work out how his stuff plays against MLB batters who are also making adjustments. It's a game of chess right now, but Ryan's striking guys out well enough and showing solid enough control to stick. He is a fly ball pitcher so learning how to keep those balls in the park is going to be critical to his development.

Ryan does not have the stuff to be a front line starter. His fastball is really deceptive, but his offspeed and breaking pitches haven't been effective this year. He's going to need to learn what works to set those bendy pitches up if he's going to reach his ceiling of a mid rotation arm. I feel confident saying he's at least got a spot in the rotation, though.

[solomon1930]

Ryan is basically still a rookie with his short 2021 season. I think to many fans are expecting way too much way too fast from him.

Look back at Frank Viola's stats for his first couple years.  The guy really struggled until he put hit together in year 3.

[Minny505]

3 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

I can't buy that - how many WS have the Yankees and Dodgers won in the last ten years with the highest payrolls? ONE.  And in the previous decade - ONE.  But teams do need a shut down starter - it is pitching that wins the big series. 

It's not about WS championships. The randomness of one of the teams that seems to make it to the WS every season for the last ten years should have learned you that by now.

But look at their combined division championships or cumulative regular season wins between them.

And the gap between the opening day odds of the White Sox being a good team vs the Mets is getting bigger, not smaller. The Luxury Tax had worked for a long time, but the teams at the top have so much money it really makes no difference to them.

[h2oface]

Some have been chastised for being critical of the Twins basically treading water and losing 6 games to .500. "We are still in first place" being the mantra. Right. And now we are still in first place - albeit tied. That very attitude of the team, perhaps, too, is why they will soon be forced to either really focus and play to potential, or stay .500 and watch Cleveland and Chicago leave the Twins in their complacent rear view.

[Aggies7]

Buxton gets another night off tonight ??

[Doctor Gast]

6 hours ago, Squirrel said:

We did not receive Ryan in the Berrios trade

 

Never said we did. I wasn't talking about the trade I was talking about how desperate we were for an ace especially after Berrios left and how eager they were to brand some one as one.

[mikelink45]

4 hours ago, Minny505 said:

It's not about WS championships. The randomness of one of the teams that seems to make it to the WS every season for the last ten years should have learned you that by now.

But look at their combined division championships or cumulative regular season wins between them.

And the gap between the opening day odds of the White Sox being a good team vs the Mets is getting bigger, not smaller. The Luxury Tax had worked for a long time, but the teams at the top have so much money it really makes no difference to them.

True - have you seen the values of the teams now?  Ridiculous.

[Mike Sixel]

4 hours ago, h2oface said:

Some have been chastised for being critical of the Twins basically treading water and losing 6 games to .500. "We are still in first place" being the mantra. Right. And now we are still in first place - albeit tied. That very attitude of the team, perhaps, too, is why they will soon be forced to either really focus and play to potential, or stay .500 and watch Cleveland and Chicago leave the Twins in their complacent rear view.

Nm

[Minny505]

17 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

True - have you seen the values of the teams now?  Ridiculous.

Agreed. At least owners of MLB teams like the Mets, Padres, Tigers of the 2010's, and I'm sure others, are deciding it's okay to essentially break even on cash-flow owning a baseball team, rather than pocketing 10s, and sometimes 100s, of millions of dollars every year. And that's on top of owning all the real estate around the stadium while having the public pay for their building of operations, plus having team resale value appreciate year over year by 5%-20% in real dollars (not nominal).

I equate it to receiving tax dollars to personally invest in premium real estate, with essentially no strings attached or need to pay it back. That investment generates massive cash-flow from day one. It being in a premium neighborhood means it appreciates at an incredible rate and basically never has a down year. 

Every person on the planet would become a millionaire if they could pull off that scam...but we only reserve access to that scam for the uber wealthy. It sucks and makes me never want to pay a penny to MLB or MLB teams for anything they might make money from.