Crickets for Sano

[bean5302]

1 minute ago, PDX Twin said:

...Rod Carew made a telling comment on a preseason broadcast about how Arraez took on everything Rod said and improved day to day as a result, but that Sano never seemed to listen to what anyone was telling him. That rings true to my observation of his results.

I hope Rod tells him to catch balls below Arraez's knees sometime soon. Seeing every ball at shin height pop back out of his glove at 1B is kinda painful to watch.

[Danchat]

Sano ended up averaging about 1.0-1.5 WAR per season. He was a solid hitter for his first few years and then has been a flop for the past 3 years - the prime of his career. The erosion of his plate discipline and inability to identify pitches has been baffling, but he's also had trouble keeping weight off, possibly adding to the injury issues. And the few playoff games he played in, he added zero value. The ceiling for him was Vlad Guerrero Jr., but we ended up getting something in between Adam Dunn and Bryan Reynolds. Over the aggregate he wasn't a bad player, but certainly a disappointment compared to what we knew he was capable of being.

[Squirrel]

3 hours ago, RpR said:

Sano will be in spring training next year, mark my word.

Probably, somewhere, not with the Twins. Someone might sign him to a minor league/make good deal. But I want in on Chief's action if you think he will be with the Twins next year

[Richie the Rally Goat]

2 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Probably, somewhere, not with the Twins. Someone might sign him to a minor league/make good deal. But I want in on Chief's action if you think he will be with the Twins next year

If the Twins were to offer a minor league deal, would Sano accept it? Hard to guess at that, I would lean no.

[Squirrel]

9 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

If the Twins were to offer a minor league deal, would Sano accept it? Hard to guess at that, I would lean no.

I just don't see them offering, though ... I mean ... there's really no room for him ... and I would think, if they don't pick up his option, which they won't, that he would want to try elsewhere

[Unwinder]

Sano will have plenty of suitors who think they're buying low and that they can fix him. And they might be right, everyone is more open to advice when they start a new job with a new boss. He'll have to settle for less than he was going to make here, but his MLB career isn't over until another team or two has had a crack at unlocking him.

[Loosey]

I wouldn't say he was a disappointment.  Did he live up to the hype he was given by us fans and the media?   Probably not.  From 2013-2015 he was just destroying minor league pitching, hitting Home Runs at a rate we hadn't seen by a Twins player in decades.  I think a lot of us hoped he would be the same guy in the majors as he was in the Low minors.  There were some years where he was close to it, but ultimately, when healthy, he became a good power hitter who struggled to get on base and struck out a lot.  Those types of players have become redundant in the the majors and in order to overcome that they have to be exceptional in the field which he was not.

[wsnydes]

2 hours ago, ashbury said:

Careful, RpR.  Chief likes good whiskey.

Not according to anything he's ever offered me!

[DocBauer]

I HOPE the Twins don't need a 1B in 2023. That would mean Arraez and a healthy AK. But even if they bring someone in, I'm sure it won't be Sano.

To me, based on hype, and hope, and talent, and recruiting rankings, yes his career has been a disappointment.

But I have to refer to bighats's earlier 2009 graph of how few turned out, or didn't even make it. The fact that Sano has played several ML seasons who so few ever even reach that level, and has part of some playoff teams, and earned millions of dollars for he and his family, it's still hard use that word.

 

[dxpavelka]

He could still resurface in the post-season.  We know Kiriloff won't.

[nicksaviking]

5 hours ago, PDX Twin said:

 

Rod Carew made a telling comment on a preseason broadcast about how Arraez took on everything Rod said and improved day to day as a result, but that Sano never seemed to listen to what anyone was telling him. That rings true to my observation of his results.

There is no amount of advice Rod Carew could give me that would enable me to hit a baseball at the MLB level. I heard the Carew interview and I don’t believe he said Sano didn’t listen to him; that would have stuck out if it did. And every sportswriter in town would probably have an article about it. I don’t think he even brought up Sano.

[PDX Twin]

8 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

There is no amount of advice Rod Carew could give me that would enable me to hit a baseball at the MLB level. I heard the Carew interview and I don’t believe he said Sano didn’t listen to him; that would have stuck out if it did. And every sportswriter in town would probably have an article about it. I don’t think he even brought up Sano.

This was in February during ST, not the one last weekend. The discussion of Sano was short. Maybe one or two sentences to the effect of "he doesn't listen."

[RpR]

1 hour ago, PDX Twin said:

This was in February during ST, not the one last weekend. The discussion of Sano was short. Maybe one or two sentences to the effect of "he doesn't listen."

To what?

Out of context/no context quotes are void.

When he got sent down to A ball, he came back improved.

[Twodogs]

6 hours ago, Danchat said:

Sano ended up averaging about 1.0-1.5 WAR per season. He was a solid hitter for his first few years and then has been a flop for the past 3 years - the prime of his career. The erosion of his plate discipline and inability to identify pitches has been baffling, but he's also had trouble keeping weight off, possibly adding to the injury issues. And the few playoff games he played in, he added zero value. The ceiling for him was Vlad Guerrero Jr., but we ended up getting something in between Adam Dunn and Bryan Reynolds. Over the aggregate he wasn't a bad player, but certainly a disappointment compared to what we knew he was capable of being.

Adam Dunn hit like 460 homeruns, had 100 rbis like 5 - 6 times, scored 100 runs multiple times.  I was hoping and praying that Sano would become that good.  Sano had flashes of brilliance, but could never quite maintain it.  Whatever the reason.

[Twodogs]

The cubs just claimed Franmil Reyes?  Similar?

[Danchat]

2 hours ago, Twodogs said:

Adam Dunn hit like 460 homeruns, had 100 rbis like 5 - 6 times, scored 100 runs multiple times.  I was hoping and praying that Sano would become that good.  Sano had flashes of brilliance, but could never quite maintain it.  Whatever the reason.

That's why I said in between - he was better than Mark Reynolds but lesser than Dunn, both of whom struck out quite a lot and had plenty of ups and downs in their careers.

[dxpavelka]

10 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

There is no amount of advice Rod Carew could give me that would enable me to hit a baseball at the MLB level. I heard the Carew interview and I don’t believe he said Sano didn’t listen to him; that would have stuck out if it did. And every sportswriter in town would probably have an article about it. I don’t think he even brought up Sano.

To be fair, Carew was a singles hitter and Sano is more of a power guy and Harmon's dead.

[jmlease1]

Sano probably gets a 1 year $2M deal with a team that needs a DH/backup 1B (national league?) and will be in spring training somewhere. It won't be with the Twins, who have turned the page by already placing him back on the 60-day IL.

It's too bad it didn't go better for Sano in MN. When he was cooking earlier in his career he had hot runs that were truly awesome. He had a huge rookie season that raised expectations that he wasn't able to meet. He still wasn't bad in the sophomore season, even with the foolish OF experiment. He was a deserving all-star in 2017. 2018 was awful & injury filled. 2019 was great and gave everyone hope. 2020 was inconsistent. 2021 he finished pretty strong and was a useful player, but suddenly went from a young player with a bright future to an overpaid slugger with little defensive value. There was reason to hope he could be an asset this season, but he was bad and injured.

The inconsistency is was wrecked Sano in MN, and that combined with the Ks that turned a chunk of the fanbase against him has made his end a disappointing one. But he wasn't a bust and did some really fun things on the field for the team. 7.7 bWAR in 8 seasons with a lot of injuries. He'd probably remembered more fondly if he hadn't teased us with a good season that went poorly the next.

[Rosterman]

Sano will be a major decision for the Twins.

2022 basically showed how the team can play without him in the lineup.

Designated hitter will still be an open spot, unless you look at it as a place for Arraez/Miranda/Urshela to rotate, as well as a place for an occasional outfielder to rest. Any progress by Larnach and Wallner this season could doom Sano to free agency.

 

[laloesch]

On 8/7/2022 at 12:56 PM, bighat said:

I don't think his career has been a disappointment.

He's been an All-Star, has had seasons of 25, 28, 30 and 34 HRs, has played over 100 games for the Twins in four of his 8 big league seasons, and has been a part of division-winning teams. He's played two positions in the big leagues, made a few memorable defensive plays and has always been considered a good teammate. Never complained about playing time, never was a prima-donna in the club house.

When it's all said and done, Miguel Sano will be able to say he's had a good MLB career and I hope the day will come when Twins fans stop the unnecessarily inconsiderate behavior towards a guy who's always tried his best for their team.

Please.  He's been a disappointment most of his career with the twins.  he's an undisciplined hitter and he doesn't take his conditioning seriously.  He deserves every bit of criticism he gets from Twins fans.  Sorry.

[USAFChief]

38 minutes ago, Rosterman said:

Sano will be a major decision for the Twins.

 

 

I think it's an easy decision for the Twins.

So easy it's been made and forgotten. 

[jmlease1]

15 minutes ago, laloesch said:

Please.  He's been a disappointment most of his career with the twins.  he's an undisciplined hitter and he doesn't take his conditioning seriously.  He deserves every bit of criticism he gets from Twins fans.  Sorry.

Sano wasn't an undisciplined hitter, though. He had a good feel for the strike zone and didn't swing at anything and everything, and was more than willing to take a walk. He did have a problem chasing sliders out of the zone (as many hitters do) at times, but the bigger problem was when he was struggling was that he couldn't catch up to fastballs in or up in the zone. That's not a matter of discipline.

Racking up Ks isn't about his discipline or even his dedication to the craft either. It may be comforting to some (especially those who have been wanting to run him out of town for 3-4 year because they don't like hitters who strike out) to slap a label like "undisciplined" on sano and bash him on his way out the door, but Sano story is more complex than that.

I think the twins should move on from him, but I'm also not going to be surprised at all if he signs a 1 year deal for like $2M with a National league club and hit 25-30 HRs next season, either. I also won't be shock if he has a terrible start to the season and gets cut. Or if he gets hot midseason and rips 10 dingers in a month. The potential variance with him is huge, the floor is lower now, the ceiling is also lower and he's not someone who will get any kind of multi-year deal.

[Vanimal46]

4 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

Sano wasn't an undisciplined hitter, though. He had a good feel for the strike zone and didn't swing at anything and everything, and was more than willing to take a walk. He did have a problem chasing sliders out of the zone (as many hitters do) at times, but the bigger problem was when he was struggling was that he couldn't catch up to fastballs in or up in the zone. That's not a matter of discipline.

Racking up Ks isn't about his discipline or even his dedication to the craft either. It may be comforting to some (especially those who have been wanting to run him out of town for 3-4 year because they don't like hitters who strike out) to slap a label like "undisciplined" on sano and bash him on his way out the door, but Sano story is more complex than that.

I think the twins should move on from him, but I'm also not going to be surprised at all if he signs a 1 year deal for like $2M with a National league club and hit 25-30 HRs next season, either. I also won't be shock if he has a terrible start to the season and gets cut. Or if he gets hot midseason and rips 10 dingers in a month. The potential variance with him is huge, the floor is lower now, the ceiling is also lower and he's not someone who will get any kind of multi-year deal.

1/$2 million is the best case scenario for him. Looking simply at free agent 1B this winter, where does Sano fall on the preference list? 

Jose Abreu, Brandon Belt, Eric Hosmer, Josh Bell, Max Muncy, Trey Mancini, Jesus Aguilar, Yulieski Gurriel, Carlos Santana, Dan Vogelbach. 

Maybe in the Aguilar/Gurriel/Santana tier? This analysis doesn’t take into consideration how many DH candidates there are over Sano, since anyone could be considered a DH.

[MN_ExPat]

19 hours ago, USAFChief said:

There's another kind??

Of course... what do you think those "Navy Guys" drink when they're not swilling Natty Light?

[jmlease1]

11 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

1/$2 million is the best case scenario for him. Looking simply at free agent 1B this winter, where does Sano fall on the preference list? 

Jose Abreu, Brandon Belt, Eric Hosmer, Josh Bell, Max Muncy, Trey Mancini, Jesus Aguilar, Yulieski Gurriel, Carlos Santana, Dan Vogelbach. 

Maybe in the Aguilar/Gurriel/Santana tier? This analysis doesn’t take into consideration how many DH candidates there are over Sano, since anyone could be considered a DH.

Seems about right? I'd rather take a flier on Sano at $2M than Santana or Gurriel (Santana hasn't been good for several years, Gurriel's 2021 season is looking kinda like a fluke and they're both old) but Sano probably slides into that general category. It's probably a little easier for teams to convince themselves that a guy will bounce back after an injury year or two at 30 then at 36. Sano is literally a year removed from hitting 30 dingers, which is why i think a team takes a flyer on him for $1-2M on a 1 year deal.

[MN_ExPat]

20 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Even so, it's been even more disappointing in regard to the kind of player Sano could have been if he didn't eat his way off the field and actually had a work ethic comparable to his peers. In my opinion, Sano would be in the same league as Nolen Arenado and Manny Machado if he'd been playing at 225lbs instead of 300lbs and he'd actually taken defensive practice seriously.

"Baseball is hard.  It's supposed to be hard.  If it was easy, everyone would be doing it."

My only real quibble with above though is the thought that Sano "ate" his way off the field.  It's not his weight that will probably end his tenure with the Twins, it's his inability to adjust to the league and the way that teams now "pitch" him, coupled with as many have said here... how absolutely streaky he is (and a lack of a true defensive home).

He has talent.  Huge amounts of talent and potential.  I don't think anyone can truly dispel that or that fact that even I can see that the guy truly did keep working to get better.  But in the end... baseball is hard (and infinitesimally harder at the professional level). 

[MN_ExPat]

1 hour ago, laloesch said:

Please.  He's been a disappointment most of his career with the twins.  he's an undisciplined hitter and he doesn't take his conditioning seriously.  He deserves every bit of criticism he gets from Twins fans.  Sorry.

To you, perhaps.  If it makes you feel better to slap that particular label on him... go right ahead.  Not saying that both parties aren't better served by parting ways, just that being militant about it doesn't make you right.

[MMMordabito]

Sano was far from a bust, but I echo the comments on inconsistency.   I think he really started losing favor with the fans after his incident during the #MeToo movement and the pile-ons from Plouffe and Co.  His weight and Ks were easy targets to keep him in a negative light after that whole thing didn't go the way many hoped it would.

It's sad that it's ending this way, but I often think Sano sure didn't help himself along the way.

He's left me with some unforgettable memories. The walk-off against the Braves and his Donkey Kong rumble into home plate at the end probably being the top of the pile.

[laloesch]

On 8/9/2022 at 10:26 AM, jmlease1 said:

Sano wasn't an undisciplined hitter, though. He had a good feel for the strike zone and didn't swing at anything and everything, and was more than willing to take a walk. He did have a problem chasing sliders out of the zone (as many hitters do) at times, but the bigger problem was when he was struggling was that he couldn't catch up to fastballs in or up in the zone. That's not a matter of discipline.

Racking up Ks isn't about his discipline or even his dedication to the craft either. It may be comforting to some (especially those who have been wanting to run him out of town for 3-4 year because they don't like hitters who strike out) to slap a label like "undisciplined" on sano and bash him on his way out the door, but Sano story is more complex than that.

I think the twins should move on from him, but I'm also not going to be surprised at all if he signs a 1 year deal for like $2M with a National league club and hit 25-30 HRs next season, either. I also won't be shock if he has a terrible start to the season and gets cut. Or if he gets hot midseason and rips 10 dingers in a month. The potential variance with him is huge, the floor is lower now, the ceiling is also lower and he's not someone who will get any kind of multi-year deal.

"He had a good feel for the strike zone and didn't swing at anything and everything, and was more than willing to take a walk."

His career strikeout rate contradicts this statement.

And the person saying he should be run out of town because of his lack of plate discipline and lack of conditioning appears to be you.

[Mortimerkenny21]

On 8/9/2022 at 12:58 PM, MMMordabito said:

He's left me with some unforgettable memories. The walk-off against the Braves and his Donkey Kong rumble into home plate at the end probably being the top of the pile.

That was a good one, I remember that one well too!