My evolving opinion on where the Twins stand

[bunsen82]

Well we are still actively buyers,  told we were runner ups in Montas trade.  Rogers being traded again is interesting.  

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, TwinsDr2021 said:

So go into next year with the same question marks as this year, Is Larnach the the guy that has had a couple of good stretches or the guy that has a couple of horrible stretches? Is AK the star we all expected or the guy that has been hurt every year since 2018, Can Jeffers be a starting Catcher, and two guys that have never played in the majors (Steer and Wallner), So basically the center field (Buxton), 2B (Arraez) and 3b set (Miranda), and question marks everywhere else, I guess beside having decent utility guys (Celestino and Gordon). Or maybe Kepler stays in RF and Polanco stays and moves Arraez to 1st. Lewis also is a question mark since he has  12 total major league games.

Then the starters Gray in the last year of his deal and is a 5/6 inning pitcher an Ryan a good 5 or 6 inning pitcher, Maeda and Paddack coming back from TJ surgery and will be on a innings limit. Then Ober and Winder who also have a injury past and who I assume will also be on inning limits based on the amount of innings they will have pitched this year. This doesn't include the bullpen.

This would all be OK IMO if 21 didn't happen or if this team ends up winning the division. But if they fall out of contention this year after last year and NOT going for it when they were good in 19 and 20 (with mostly a team from the previous FO) when they were good, and the reason they didn't go for it was because they were building for a team to be competitive going forward, and then us fans have to deal with this, it should be unacceptable. I mean it isn't like they have a stud pitcher in the minors ready to blow up next year or even a position player (unless we count Lewis who will be 24 in June next year)

 

All fair points. That was my stance until recently, that this year they had 5 games in the bag! Unfortunately, they no longer do. I am hopeful they bring in another real SP next year.......other than CC, they are as good or better at every position next year (assuming Jeffers comes back) than they are now. It is all on their ability to get pitching.

[Game7-91]

7 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Kepler shoul

 

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Kepler should be back soon. 

Hope so, but anecdotally, I have had turf toe, not exactly same injury, but similar....toes are hard to gauge sometime....mine is becoming chronic flare up issue 9 months on. I do have 25 yrs on Kep though....doc said injuries like this take longer to heal as we get older....I said "Excuse me, who you talking to?"

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, bunsen82 said:

Well we are still actively buyers,  told we were runner ups in Montas trade.  Rogers being traded again is interesting.  

SD rode him hard, he's worn out, and they get what s/b a great RP the rest of the year. I like the deal for both sides just fine.

[bunsen82]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

SD rode him hard, he's worn out, and they get what s/b a great RP the rest of the year. I like the deal for both sides just fine.

San Diego gave up quite a bit.  Rogers seems more of a throw in at this point.  

[Mike Sixel]

They are starting someone most here haven't even heard of tonight in Detroit. The starting pitching situation is bad. Really bad. I know they NEED RPs, but yikes. It is really hard to see how they stay on top of the division if they don't go get a SP.

[Brandon]

OR..... Lets just gut the system for Soto and Mahle and a reliever.  That will solve our OF problem and get us some pitching help.  We may even be able to keep a prospect or 2 after the trades.  

This will go with the theme of fun transactions and going for it that we here are unaccustomed too.  

[MABB1959]

They should be able to be buyers and keep Correa especially if they want to sell tickets and keep their fan base happy.  They also IMO are a team where a "top starter" isn't going to want to waste away with a team that does not have history of going out.  I will be disappointed if they trade Correa for more prospects.  Who was the last big splash pitcher the Twins signed.  I think they should have paid to keep Berrios but he wouldn't be happy on a team that barely stays afloat.  Hoping Sano finds a new team where he will had success.  NO MORE PROSPECTS!

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, MABB1959 said:

They should be able to be buyers and keep Correa especially if they want to sell tickets and keep their fan base happy.  They also IMO are a team where a "top starter" isn't going to want to waste away with a team that does not have history of going out.  I will be disappointed if they trade Correa for more prospects.  Who was the last big splash pitcher the Twins signed.  I think they should have paid to keep Berrios but he wouldn't be happy on a team that barely stays afloat.  Hoping Sano finds a new team where he will had success.

I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested trading Correa, and they shouldn't. 

[Brandon]

4 minutes ago, MABB1959 said:

They should be able to be buyers and keep Correa especially if they want to sell tickets and keep their fan base happy.  They also IMO are a team where a "top starter" isn't going to want to waste away with a team that does not have history of going out.  I will be disappointed if they trade Correa for more prospects.  Who was the last big splash pitcher the Twins signed.  I think they should have paid to keep Berrios but he wouldn't be happy on a team that barely stays afloat.  Hoping Sano finds a new team where he will had success.  NO MORE PROSPECTS!

Phil Hughes, Nolasco. and Ervin Santana.  the results weren't what we paid for but these guys had a decent track record and were worth the investment when we signed them.  

[Dman]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Hawt take. I'd send Garlick down and call up Cave. I'd play him and or Contreras most games, and send Celestino down for a month. 

While I would be hesitant to send Garlick down I am with you on Cave.  His OBP is 100 points above his reasonable .273 BA.  HIs OPS is approaching .900.  These are number that seem to show he is ready for Major League Baseball again at least IMO.  However at 29 he doesn't appear to be a part of the future in Twins outfield.  He was a break glass in case of emergency type of player this year .

Still given his production at AAA I wonder if he has some trade value?  There are teams looking for outfield help and while he hasn't played at the MLB level yet this year he has three years of experience playing at that level and would be a very, very solid fourth outfielder for a club that needed a lefty bat.

I thought a few years back the Marlins had some interest in Cave or Rosario and it didn't happen.  With the Fish needing more offense and Cave fresh off a long hitting streak as well as hitting for power I wonder if a deal for a reliever might be made with Cave included?  

I know a lot of us have soured on Cave but I still think he is MLB ready.

[big dog]

16 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

They are starting someone most here haven't even heard of tonight in Detroit. The starting pitching situation is bad. Really bad. I know they NEED RPs, but yikes. It is really hard to see how they stay on top of the division if they don't go get a SP.

I checked two sites, they are either starting "To B. Determined" or "Un D. Cided". I don't remember drafting either of these guys. Waiver wire pickups?

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, big dog said:

I checked two sites, they are either starting "To B. Determined" or "Un D. Cided". I don't remember drafting either of these guys. Waiver wire pickups?

Aaron Sanchez is tonight's starter.

[big dog]

Oh my. Thanks for that. I guess.

I wonder what injury he's going to have by next week?

[ashbury]

4 minutes ago, big dog said:

I checked two sites, they are either starting "To B. Determined" or "Un D. Cided". I don't remember drafting either of these guys. Waiver wire pickups?

This can only end well, tonight.

[big dog]

This is beyond ridiculous.

[TwinsDr2021]

38 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

All fair points. That was my stance until recently, that this year they had 5 games in the bag! Unfortunately, they no longer do. I am hopeful they bring in another real SP next year.......other than CC, they are as good or better at every position next year (assuming Jeffers comes back) than they are now. It is all on their ability to get pitching.

I have never been on the Twins need to trade for a stud starting pitcher this year, I just don't believe they would use the pitcher that way. Unless of course they decide they need to to drive up the trading price (IE - what they did with Berrios before trading him last year). They seem pretty consistent on allowing starters pitch to 18-22 batters and that is it. I also don't believe they will sign any stud this off season if there is any left to sign.  So sure maybe they will be as good on the offensive/defensive side next year with the same question marks, but having most of the rotation being on innings limit next year, leaves me to believe next year is more of the same as this year. Personally if the Twins fold down the stretch I think it is time for this FO to go. Who have they brought in the last 7 years that will be starting pieces next year?

Currently guys on the 40 man this front office: Laranach, Garlick, Contreras, Celestiono, Urshela, Correa, Beckham, Jeffers, Sanchez, Winder, Thielbar, Strotman, Smith, Smeltzer, Sands,  Ryan, Romero, Pagan, Paddack, Ober, Megill, Maeda, Jax, Henriquez, Gray, Enlow, Duran, Dobnak, Coulombe, Cotton, Cano, Bundy, Archer, Alcala.

Maeda, Smeltzer, Alcala, Duran came from trading guys from the previous regime. ( This FO should get credit for trading for these guys)

Does this group give you confidence that this front office are the guys for the job? the top offensive prospect is the guy they took first overall in 2017 draft, the top pitching prospect (Balazovic) is from the previous regime, and the next two guys Martin and SWR are from trading the best pitcher from the previous regime.

[big dog]

As a manager once said about a different player, well, he's 30 years old. Next year he's got a chance to be 31.

[RpR]

14 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Aaron Sanchez is tonight's starter.

He was an All-Star once, and so many here want to bring up rookie wannabes.

[SanoMustGo]

14 minutes ago, RpR said:

He was an All-Star once, and so many here want to bring up rookie wannabes.

You realize every player was a rookie at one time, right?  This team is a mess, period.  I'll be relieved to just get through the remainder of the season with no more serious injuries.  Not even sure I care about wins and losses any more.

[big dog]

We don’t have anyone left. I just want to have a few healthy starters. That doesn’t seem like a lot to ask but it is apparently impossible. 
 

[big dog]

24 minutes ago, RpR said:

He was an All-Star once, and so many here want to bring up rookie wannabes.

So was Alex Coulombe. Same year, too. 
My only alternative is Smeltzer. Maybe they are saving him for tomorrow. 

[Mike Sixel]

We almost made two pages on topic. Not bad. 

[Mike Sixel]

38 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I have never been on the Twins need to trade for a stud starting pitcher this year, I just don't believe they would use the pitcher that way. Unless of course they decide they need to to drive up the trading price (IE - what they did with Berrios before trading him last year). They seem pretty consistent on allowing starters pitch to 18-22 batters and that is it. I also don't believe they will sign any stud this off season if there is any left to sign.  So sure maybe they will be as good on the offensive/defensive side next year with the same question marks, but having most of the rotation being on innings limit next year, leaves me to believe next year is more of the same as this year. Personally if the Twins fold down the stretch I think it is time for this FO to go. Who have they brought in the last 7 years that will be starting pieces next year?

Currently guys on the 40 man this front office: Laranach, Garlick, Contreras, Celestiono, Urshela, Correa, Beckham, Jeffers, Sanchez, Winder, Thielbar, Strotman, Smith, Smeltzer, Sands,  Ryan, Romero, Pagan, Paddack, Ober, Megill, Maeda, Jax, Henriquez, Gray, Enlow, Duran, Dobnak, Coulombe, Cotton, Cano, Bundy, Archer, Alcala.

Maeda, Smeltzer, Alcala, Duran came from trading guys from the previous regime. ( This FO should get credit for trading for these guys)

Does this group give you confidence that this front office are the guys for the job? the top offensive prospect is the guy they took first overall in 2017 draft, the top pitching prospect (Balazovic) is from the previous regime, and the next two guys Martin and SWR are from trading the best pitcher from the previous regime.

Not really on topic.... Maybe start a new thread?

[ashbury]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

We almost made two pages on topic. Not bad. 

What do you think of Joe Mauer's chances for the Hall of Fame?  His contract always seemed like a big impediment to me.  Personally I think they should have drafted Mark Pryor.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, ashbury said:

What do you think of Joe Mauer's chances for the Hall of Fame?  His contract always seemed like a big impediment to me.  Personally I think they should have drafted Mark Pryor.

Right. Prior is still in baseball. What's mauer even doing?

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested trading Correa, and they shouldn't. 

If they aren't getting help they SHOULD trade Correa. 

And I would HATE the idea of trading Correa.

You've said it multiple times, Mike...why would anyone think they'll have a better shot next year?

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

If they aren't getting help they SHOULD trade Correa. 

And I would HATE the idea of trading Correa.

You've said it multiple times, Mike...why would anyone think they'll have a better shot next year?

I'm not sure they do, but I'm losing faith they really do this year either. Ryan not being good since his return is a real downer. Winder is out. I just have a hard time seeing real success. I hope to be wrong. Like I said, my thoughts are evolving....

[KirbyDome89]

Which prospect arms inspire confidence heading into the next year? The "not good enough to bring back help, but can't give them up and mortgage the future," argument doesn't really jive. If the parts are broken, then what kind of future are we clinging to? What's going to stop the pitching from being a disaster again next year? This FO won't play in the FA pool, which means we're either crossing our fingers on 4-5 guys have major bounce backs simultaneously and/or they're making trades. If you have the opportunity right now to sell high on a few guys and bring in help for a postseason run this year and beyond I'd take it. 

One high end reliever and another solid middle innings guy is the absolute minimum, and even that's more of a half measure. 

[jorgenswest]

38 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

If they aren't getting help they SHOULD trade Correa. 

And I would HATE the idea of trading Correa.

You've said it multiple times, Mike...why would anyone think they'll have a better shot next year?

If they trade Correa I hope it is for help next year.

An example might be sending Correa and cash in a three team trade with the Yankees or Phillies who send prospect capital to the Reds who send Mahle to the Twins