Twins 1, Padres 10: Twins West Coast Tour Starts with Another Loss

[Sherry Cerny]

The Twins and the Padres started a three-game series Friday night, just the 21st time the two teams have met over their history. With the Twins line-up poised to battle a left-handed pitcher, Joe Ryan took the mound in search of his eighth win of the season.

Box Score
SP: Joe Ryan 4.2 IP, 8 H, 10 ER, 2 BB, 7 K (81 pitches, 57 strikes (70%))
Home Runs:  Byron Buxton (25)
Bottom 3 WPA: Joe Ryan (-.350), Gilberto Celestino (-.101), Miguel Sano (-.081)
Win Probability Chart (via FanGraphs) 

More Pitching Woes
The Twins gave up the lead early in the game when Luke Voit hit a home run to center field after a lead off walk to Jurickson Profar, scoring both players in the bottom of the first. What looked like a fluke early on, spiraled quickly into pitching misery for Joe Ryan. 

In an uncharacteristic game, Ryan gave up five home runs and had ten earned runs overall. This writer noticed early on that Ryan struggled with command, some of his pitches lacking movement and speed making him extremely hittable for the Padres. Ryan has not given up more than four runs a game this season and was the first Twins since 2003 to give up 10+ runs in a game. 

Manager Rocco Baldelli finally pulled Ryan after being shelled and going through the order three times by the fifth inning. The fifth inning was the worst for the rookie pitcher. He saw all nine hitters, gave up six runs pushing the lead to ten for the Padres. Needless to say, it was a rough game, one of the hardest we’ve seen for him this season. 

Jovani Moran came in to relieve Ryan and quickly closed out the inning with four pitches allowing the game to move to the next inning. Moran and Jharel Cotton did a great job keeping their pitch counts low and moving swiftly through the innings.

In a complete change of pace, the bullpen managed to move quickly through the game and manage any further damage incurred by the starter. 

The offense was as dismal as the pitching tonight. Unable to produce any runs, The Twins bats stayed quiet until Byron Buxton hit his 25th home run of the season at the top of the fourth inning, finally getting them on the board, trailing only by two with plenty of game left. 

Blake Snell, who has had a rough season for the Padres, held the Twins to just one run before being relieved by Dinelson Lamet, a RHP who was recalled from Triple-A El Paso for Mackenzie Gore. Lamet handled business for the Padres keeping the Twins off the board.

Twins fans have been seeing Miguel Sano in the line-up since the Milwaukee series. Sano came in as the Designated Hitter again and completed his first full game today, and while he was doing well in Triple-A Saint Paul, the Twins have been easing him back into the game, he’s yet to get a hit, and Twins fans took to Twitter to express their frustration with Sano on top of the already mounting frustration with the pitching. 

The game overall was dismal, but the eighth inning was entertaining. While the Padres were pitching, the crowd came to a roar and Dick Bremer and Roy Smalley continued to talk about the game, while security wrestled a streaker.

To add to the excitement, the Twins brought in Nick Gordon as a relief pitcher. Gordon started the mound appearance with the umpire staff giving him a hard time about his glove. The glove Gordon had evidently looked similar to the color of a baseball masking the pitch. 

While the staff found Gordon a new glove, the Padres staff loudly blasted “what’s going on” by 4Non Blondes in the background. Gordon went with the flow: smiling during ‘glove gate’, took calls from Sanchez and had a scoreless eighth inning. 

The Twins were quickly shut down in the ninth inning by Tim Hill, ending the game and the frustration for the evening. 

After a couple tough losses in Milwaukee, this was not a great way to start a comeback. With the trade deadline looming, the Twins need to make some moves that will benefit the team. Even if the play-offs aren't in the future this season, the pitching core needs help. 

What’s Next?
Pitching matchup for the rest of the series:

• Saturday 6:15 pm CST: Sonny Gray (5-3, 3.52ERA)  vs RHP Joe Musgrove (8-3, 2.63 ERA)
• Sunday 1:10 pm CST: TBD  vs RHP Sean Manaea (5-5, 4.33 ERA) 

Postgame Interview

Bullpen Usage Spreadsheet

 

 

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[mikelink45]

Rocco the quick hook artist let's Ryan give up 10!!!  Nonsense. This is when Archer takes over in the second inning and Ryan pitches another day.

Let's see - Padres are a playoff team like Milwaukee, Dodgers, Astros - we are really establishing our credentials.

Castillo now traded, but we don't need him in our rotation.

Sad. 

[ChermesZ]

Can anyone tell me the twins ERA after Wes Johnson left?

 

And what is our record now since Sano came back?

[rwilfong86]

23 minutes ago, ChermesZ said:

And what is our record now since Sano came back?

0-3. 

[terrydactyls]

Time to forget 2022, trade some MLB players for AAA talent, and start planning for 2023.

[USAFChief]

I wouldn't invest another PA in Sano. The offense is thin enough.

 

And I might be an old curmudgeon, but I find zero entertainment in Nick Gordon pitching for my favorite ballclub.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I've seen Stranger Things than a starting pitcher allowing 10 runs in a game...

[rv78]

The team woes start with the Manager.  Playing Sano is a mistake. The guys needs to be DFA'd. Batting Arraez 6th is a mistake. He should always be batting in front of Buxton. How many of Buxtons solo shots would be 2 or 3 run homers if Rocco knew how to set a lineup? Ryan gives up 10 runs only due to Roccos inability to in-game manage. He'll pull a starter who's at 80 pitches and pitching with the lead and then leaves Ryan in when he clearly doesn't have his best stuff to get hammered and make the game a blowout basically giving the team no chance to come back and win it. 

I said before the All-Star game this team was toast. Thanks to Rocco, the toast is burning.

[Otto von Ballpark]

47 minutes ago, ChermesZ said:

Can anyone tell me the twins ERA after Wes Johnson left?

I think Wes Johnson's last game was June 30.

Our ERA since then is 5.45, worst in MLB.

FanGraphs team ERA since July 1

[D.C Twins]

Is it possible that Sano is trying to be DFA'ed so he can join another team?

Or is he just that lost at the plate and guessing like he is playing a game of rock/paper/scissors?

Either way.... no mas por favor!

[Nashvilletwin]

Did we all see what the M’s gave up for Castillo? We’d have to completely gut our prospect list to get to that level - and we need 3-4 Castillo types to realistically have any chance to contend.

The data points are there.  It’s ok to take a step back and reevaluate where this team truly stands with a clear mind and open eyes. Sure - we are clinging to a rapidly evaporating division lead. But we are obviously more than one or two players away. Our window should be more open next year and then the following year than it is now. Any moves we make should be to enhance that realisation, not jeopardise it. 

Watching last night’s game, I was dumbfounded and saddened to see Rocco leave our top young starter in to give up 10 runs. After Machado it was perfectly clear to everyone it was not Ryan’s night. Rocco leaves him in to get battered for four more runs to get one more out. That was inexcusable. I hope Ryan can either forget or learn from that. Psyche’s in young pitchers can be tricky.

Looking for a strong rebound game today!

[Whitey333]

Very sad performance by Ryan.  But he's been the teams best starter.  What's frustrating is we were counting on him to be a stopper.  At least in this case.  Hopefully Gray can do well on Saturday but the ship is rapidly sinking.  I agree with the contributed questioning Rocco's handling of pitching staff.  Many times he takes the pitcher out way too early then other times he leaves him in way too long.  He should have gotten Ryan out of there much earlier.  It probably wouldn't have made any difference in the final score.  But maybe by letting him get hammered and embarrassed you hurt his confidence.  I've been saying since April.  This team is not good enough to be a serious contender and Rocco will wind up managing his way out of playoff consideration.  Front Office, where are you???

[jorgenswest]

I would have left him in. The pitch count was low enough. He was throwing strikes. He got hit hard but all 5 home runs were in the first row. Outfielders made a play on all 5. They need him to be able to work through a struggle and go deep. That didn’t happen last night.

If he can’t handle getting beat and coming back stronger then he won’t have a long career in baseball.

[chinmusic]

1 hour ago, ChermesZ said:

Can anyone tell me the twins ERA after Wes Johnson left?

I'm wondering just how significant Wes Johnson's departure was to this current mess.

[Game7-91]

1 hour ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

I've seen Stranger Things than a starting pitcher allowing 10 runs in a game...

It's the hairdoo-doo! JR needs needs to grow back the "SoCal-heydude" look to reclaim the magic. Let 'er grow Joe! 

[Mark G]

17 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Did we all see what the M’s gave up for Castillo? We’d have to completely gut our prospect list to get to that level - and we need 3-4 Castillo types to realistically have any chance to contend.

The data points are there.  It’s ok to take a step back and reevaluate where this team truly stands with a clear mind and open eyes. Sure - we are clinging to a rapidly evaporating division lead. But we are obviously more than one or two players away. Our window should be more open next year and then the following year than it is now. Any moves we make should be to enhance that realisation, not jeopardise it. 

Watching last night’s game, I was dumbfounded and saddened to see Rocco leave our top young starter in to give up 10 runs. After Machado it was perfectly clear to everyone it was not Ryan’s night. Rocco leaves him in to get battered for four more runs to get one more out. That was inexcusable. I hope Ryan can either forget or learn from that. Psyche’s in young pitchers can be tricky.

Looking for a strong rebound game today!

I agree with most everything, except for possibly one item.  I hear lots of folks here and elsewhere talk about '23 and beyond, and how that may be our window realistically rather than the here and now.  What is it that leads to that conclusion?  The left side of our infield may very well be gone, our outfield won't be any better than it is now, the catching situation isn't playoff contending caliber as of now, or next  year.  And the pitching staff is counting on young, unproven guys to step up and seize the day up and down the staff, not to mention (but we always have to on this team) trying to stay off the IL.  There will be things that are better, and things that are good now but gone soon.  Overall, how are we contenders in the coming couple of years where we aren't now?  

I guess why I am not feeling the love is because I hear all about the guys coming up through the system that are going to step up and step into the areas we need.  And in the same conversation I hear we haven't got enough high end prospects to put into trades to help us now and still have something left to bring up when the needs come in the next couple of years.  Which is it?  Are we good in the system with good up and coming players, or are the cupboards bare to the point that we can't compete in trade talks?  Because if what we see is what we get in the immediate future I would like to take the kind of shot Seattle just did.  Or at the very least, if we are not going to compete on that level, make the FO be up front and honest about it.  Not that there is much chance of this pair being honest about anything, but at least put the pressure on.  

[Whitey333]

Yes Seattle gave up 4 prospects including a couple of high prospects.  But they haven't been in the playoffs since 2000 or 2001.  I don't think it's an overpay for the moment.  You can play your prospects if they are so great or use them in trades.  Prospects are an asset.  At least the few that may be able to make the majors.  But what good does it do to hoard prospects when the major league team is floundering and in obvious need of help.  This team has been so flawed from the start but the FO so far has only been good at signing washed up pitchers no one else wants.  Yes I agree we should be thinking 2023 and beyond.  But first there is no guarantee as of today that the team in 2023 will be any better than this year's team.  So what's wrong with adding a little major league pitching now and getting someone good enough to help with that supposedly open window?  My opinion is if Falvey and Company is unable or unwilling to make some noticeable improvement on this team they should not be here.  That's there job.  I'm expecting some kind of help coming via trade.  Some significant meaningful help.  Can Sano pitch?  He's not much good at anything else.

[tony&rodney]

28 minutes ago, Mark G said:

I agree with most everything, except for possibly one item.  I hear lots of folks here and elsewhere talk about '23 and beyond, and how that may be our window realistically rather than the here and now.  What is it that leads to that conclusion?  The left side of our infield may very well be gone, our outfield won't be any better than it is now, the catching situation isn't playoff contending caliber as of now, or next  year.  And the pitching staff is counting on young, unproven guys to step up and seize the day up and down the staff, not to mention (but we always have to on this team) trying to stay off the IL.  There will be things that are better, and things that are good now but gone soon.  Overall, how are we contenders in the coming couple of years where we aren't now?  

I guess why I am not feeling the love is because I hear all about the guys coming up through the system that are going to step up and step into the areas we need.  And in the same conversation I hear we haven't got enough high end prospects to put into trades to help us now and still have something left to bring up when the needs come in the next couple of years.  Which is it?  Are we good in the system with good up and coming players, or are the cupboards bare to the point that we can't compete in trade talks?  Because if what we see is what we get in the immediate future I would like to take the kind of shot Seattle just did.  Or at the very least, if we are not going to compete on that level, make the FO be up front and honest about it.  Not that there is much chance of this pair being honest about anything, but at least put the pressure on.  

Redundancy in my add-on to this response ...

The Twins lineup has been reasonably healthy all things considered and while all things are possible I would not expect the lineup to be improved next season unless Jermaine Palacios wins the AL MVP at shortstop. The lineup is young and needs pitching but people are afraid to gut the farm system which apparently isn't good enough anyway to draw any interest from other teams. The Twins look to be in a tough position. Do they consider trading Polanco, Urshela, and Kepler? This always circles back - it's Falvey Time.

[Aichiman]

Start the fire sale.  And kick it off by kicking out the manager.  Then goodbye Mr. Sano and  goodbye Mr. Correa,  Anybody else?  Let's see, I wonder what we could get for Bundy, Archer, Urshela and Sabato?   I'd hang on to Cavaco.  He seems to be getting it together.   

[Aichiman]

1 hour ago, chinmusic said:

I'm wondering just how significant Wes Johnson's departure was to this current mess.

I've been wondering why he left to begin with?  I've never heard a satisfactory explanation.  What's the real story here?

[Mark G]

2 minutes ago, Aichiman said:

I've been wondering why he left to begin with?  I've never heard a satisfactory explanation.  What's the real story here?

I read he got the pitching coach job at LSU, which is really close to home for him, and he wants to be with his family because his kids are at that age.  I also read he got a raise for doing so, as the school really wanted him.

[AlwaysinModeration]

In Joe Ryan’s defense, trying to pitch to Padres batters wearing those uniforms would have been a challenge for anyone.

[AlwaysinModeration]

3 minutes ago, Mark G said:

I read he got the pitching coach job at LSU, which is really close to home for him, and he wants to be with his family because his kids are at that age.  I also read he got a raise for doing so, as the school really wanted him.

He got more than double the money for about half the number of games?

[Aichiman]

1 minute ago, Mark G said:

I read he got the pitching coach job at LSU, which is really close to home for him, and he wants to be with his family because his kids are at that age.  I also read he got a raise for doing so, as the school really wanted him.

I read that too, but I don't buy it.  I mean it's plausible, but it doesn't explain his abrupt departure in the middle of the season.  Something must have happened within the Twins' organization that alienated Johnson in some way.  What?  I don't know.

[roger]

Watched most of the two games versus the Brewers.  Didn't watch last night as those west coast games are just too late.  Kind of glad I didn't.

What have we learned over the past three games?  I believe it only confirmed that the Twins are a ways from being a legit contender for a long playoff run.  Should Buxton be injured and go on the IL, any hope of winning a weak division becomes a dream.  Should the FO make some moves over the next three days, certainly.  But they all should be smaller moves that will help the team in 2023 and beyond.  Maybe a good, young reliever?  Maybe a young catcher who can compete with Jeffers in 2023?  

[Mark G]

6 minutes ago, Aichiman said:

I read that too, but I don't buy it.  I mean it's plausible, but it doesn't explain his abrupt departure in the middle of the season.  Something must have happened within the Twins' organization that alienated Johnson in some way.  What?  I don't know.

That maybe, maybe pressure from the family to be home more, maybe the money was too much to pass up, maybe a combination of all of the above.......it is a head scratcher.  I can see where one might think something went wrong, though, because I have never read anywhere (maybe someone else has?) that the Twins tried to match or beat the offer.  

[Game7-91]

6 minutes ago, AlwaysinModeration said:

He got more than double the money for about half the number of games?

Yep......to me the most surprising thing about that whole situation was that he was making $350K.....I'm not up on coaching staff salaries, but I was stunned the pitching coach was making such a comparatively small amount. I honestly thought the top pitching and hitting coaches would be in the upper six figures, even lower mil's.....I've never paid attention to that stuff, but man I was really surprised. I dont blame Wes Johnson for seeing a chance to double his income in one job change.

These things keep circling back to a problem, and I know how much some here do not want to harp on the Twins not paying up, but the org overall does not want to pay to keep higher level talent,not only players, but also apparently coaching and development. This continues to be an ownership issue imho. 

If the org is all about developing talent internally, then it would seem the investing in cost of player development is done without question, and with the highest quality in mind at all levels of the system.  In my mind that means finding, and hiring  high level scouting and coaching personnel at all levels, supporting their work and rewarding their results with ultra-competetive pay and benefits. It's not 100M contracts here, even the small market teams should be able to make these types of investments. This is investing more than just another operational expense. Does anyone know how the Twins compare to other org's in committing investments to developmental costs up and down the system? Would love to know if there is info out there abt how MLB org's spend and support the process, but I cannot find info.

Either that, or buy players at MLB level. Are there other alternatives out there?

[chinmusic]

20 minutes ago, AlwaysinModeration said:

In Joe Ryan’s defense, trying to pitch to Padres batters wearing those uniforms would have been a challenge for anyone.

True, and though the Twins lost by a demoralizing 9 runs, they maintained their sartorial dignity.

[terrydactyls]

It's a seller's market.  Time to join the fun and see how desperate other teams are.  Offer up Kepler, Sano, Urshela, Sanchez, Cave, Beckham, and even Polanco.  Who knows what you might get offered?  And if no one offers anything of value, keep the players and you are no worse off than you are now.  This season is over.

[AceWrigley]

A little off subject here, but if the Twins didn't sign Correa, would Lewis have gotten hurt? Did signing Correa (cost) prevent us from signing relievers? What does having our pitching coach leave mid-season mean for our pitching staff the rest of the year?