White Sox 11, Twins 0: Blowout Loss Concludes Twins First Half

[insagt1]

I agree with all those who feel the Twins are a mess right now. Only reason they are in 1st is because Cleveland and Chicago haven't hit their stride yet. But both have demonstrated they can beat the Twins pretty regularly now. You can't win without pitching. (yes, we have 13 pitchers...but are they any good?) While the term is overrated and overused, Twins don't have anything close to a 'closer' or shutdown pitcher.  The bullpen is shot...when you must use 6 and 7 pitchers every night (or so it seems), its easy to see they are gassed. The starters rarely make it thru 5 innings anymore, and if they do its not the 'quality start'.

The hitters are also not carrying their weight. Can you think of a weaker starting outfielder in an All Star Game than Buxton? He has 23 HR's..thats where it stops. He is barely a .200 hitter this year and his 'k' total is Sano-esque. In short, he looks awful up there now. Team has been blanked 11 times. there are far too many games where the offense just doesn't show up. Is this really a 1st place team? No it isn't. Are they like Atlanta last year? Time will tell. Can they get things straightened out going forward? Maybe. Will Sano help? Doubtful. Will Twins make some trades by August 1st? I think so.

Will they still be in 1st place by the end of the month? Probably not. After last season, were our expectations for this team too high? Probably. Most would say they have already over-achieved.  But this is why they play the games, right? No one could have imagined the 110 loss Orioles to be .500 right now. You just never know. We can't lose hope, but at the same time we need to be realistic. I'd love to see monster 2nd half's from Buck, Polo, Correa and Kepler (if he's still around)

[Mark G]

5 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Yes, there are many things to be concerned about, but let's look at the entire picture. The Twins have a winning record at the break and a small lead in the division. This is primarily because they have a good lineup and their pitchers overperformed for the first third of the season. Three position players with less than a years experience have looked promising--Miranda, Kirilloff and Larnach (now out with injury)--and three pitchers with less than a years experience--Winder, Jax and Duran--have done well. Luis Arraez continues to show he is elite as a hitter and Jorge Polanco is giving indications that he'll have a monster second half to his season.

Now to the minus side of the ledger. The rotation, which looked suspect coming out of Spring Training looks suspect again after encouraging performances early in the year. Sonny Gray hasn't been the same since coming off the IL the second time. Joe Ryan isn't dominating although he's really held his own and everyone else in the rotation is both limited in upside and an injury risk. The bullpen has been poor and prospects for improvement from within are close to non-existent. While looking at individual performances from the position players, there aren't many, if any, disappointments, the offense hasn't sustained above-average run scoring for more than a series at a time. 

For the second half (post All-Star break), I believe the Twins will continue to score runs well above average and they will continue to be a decent defensive outfit, barring devastating injuries. If they can find enough pitching, they will be in the hunt for the playoffs and a division crown. If not, they will continue to fade.

I wish I shared your enthusiasm for the line up scoring runs well above average.  When looking at the stats as a whole for 92 games, it looks like we are doing fine there, but look closer and you find we have scored 4 runs or more in 48 games, and 3 runs or less in 44.  Almost half of our games are low offense games.  And it has been that consistent the entire season.  8-9 runs one game 1-2 runs the next.  And the Pioneer Press says in todays paper that Roc is going to start the 2nd half with a 4 man starting rotation.  I guess that means 9 BP guys?  Makes sense, I guess, when you are in love with your pen pitching close to half the innings.  It will be interesting to see how long it takes to go back to 5 or even 6.  When we sucked in past times I at least understood how and why we sucked.  And when we were doing great I understood why then, too.  Now?  We go from 1st to last, back to first again (at least at the break), hit 4 home runs one game and can't get a sacrifice fly, much less a single to score runners the next, pitch a gem one day, and give up 11 runs the next.  We never have a regular line up either in the field or in the batting order, and I have yet to figure out why pitchers get pulled and when.  We will not play what was once called small ball, because it goes against Roc's computer spread sheets.  So we adjust our "launch angle" and swing for the fences; even Bremer and Perkins say as much during games sometimes.  Worked in '19; not so much in '21.  Today?  See above.  I hear everyone say it is just the way the game is today, that everyone does it this way, but no one can explain why.  Except that they are trying to cut down on injuries.......how is that working out for us?  Even the guys on national TV say we have more injuries than almost any team in the league. up to, and including, the minor league clubs.  I could go on the rest of the afternoon, but I would drive myself even more crazy than I am already.  Far wiser folks than me (yes, there are those out there   ) might be able to understand this outfit, and if you are out there, give me a hand.  

Start with this question.  Aside from the 23 home runs, we have a guy hitting .216 and striking out exactly one out of every three official at bats.  Picture Sano with 23 home runs and the other stats above.  On what planet does he make the All Star team?  Or any other player for that matter.  As much as we all love Buck, how does that happen?  How many other teams' fans are going to compare those stats with their CF and ask the same question.  And don't answer it is his defense; I can't think of a time in my adult lifetime that a player has been selected to the squad for his defense.  Home runs are nice, but look deeper and tell me where he is one of the top offensive players in the AL (I know, I know, his OPS.  Doesn't make up for a .293 OBA)  But I digress.  I only know I knew this game well and understood it for 40 years.  The last 5-10 are like I flew in from another planet and am trying to figure out what all these earthlings are watching........and why?  Sometimes I wonder if the guys in the HOF don't ask the same questions I do.  

You guys are right; we need 5 days off.    

[teachercoach]

Facts.  Twinkie have played more games (94) than anyone in AL.

In a stretch of 9 off days in 22 days.  Nobody else as well rested.

On April 5, fans would take 1st place & a 2 game lead at the All-Star break.

Twins tied with Cle for best record in division games (23-19),

 

Next game needs to be like opening day!

[puckstopper1]

One other comment I'd like to make about Sunday's game is the White Sox played some strong defense.  If that keeps up that is NOT good news for the rest of the division.

[puckstopper1]

1 hour ago, Mark G said:

Start with this question.  Aside from the 23 home runs, we have a guy hitting .216 and striking out exactly one out of every three official at bats.  Picture Sano with 23 home runs and the other stats above.  On what planet does he make the All Star team?  Or any other player for that matter.  As much as we all love Buck, how does that happen?  How many other teams' fans are going to compare those stats with their CF and ask the same question.  And don't answer it is his defense; I can't think of a time in my adult lifetime that a player has been selected to the squad for his defense.  Home runs are nice, but look deeper and tell me where he is one of the top offensive players in the AL (I know, I know, his OPS.  Doesn't make up for a .293 OBA)  But I digress.  I only know I knew this game well and understood it for 40 years.  The last 5-10 are like I flew in from another planet and am trying to figure out what all these earthlings are watching........and why?  Sometimes I wonder if the guys in the HOF don't ask the same questions I do.  

You guys are right; we need 5 days off.    

I'm not sure how old you are, Mark, but Ozzie Smith made 15 all-star games mostly because of his defense. ?

[KirbyDome89]

18 hours ago, SwainZag said:

Hopefully Ober is back soon, that will put 2 rookies and a 2nd year pitcher in the starting rotation.  Combine that with your two best high leverage men being in their 1st and 2nd season and that's 5 fairly important arms being 1st or 2nd year players from that pipeline....not to mention Moran, Sands and Alcala have all been on the staff at some point this season. 

It could be well into August or even September before we see Ober. Last I saw he was cleared for upper body workouts and hadn't even started throwing yet. He's going to have to get through a throwing program, and then multiple rehab starts. Availability was an issue with him, and here we are. He's going to throw 33 innings in 4-5 months. 

Winder is in AAA (would love to see that change) but the rest of the minor leagues arms have been some combo of hurt/bad. We can call it a pipeline, but what kind of flow are we getting?

 

[Aggies7]

5 hours ago, Mark G said:

I wish I shared your enthusiasm for the line up scoring runs well above average.  When looking at the stats as a whole for 92 games, it looks like we are doing fine there, but look closer and you find we have scored 4 runs or more in 48 games, and 3 runs or less in 44.  Almost half of our games are low offense games.  And it has been that consistent the entire season.  8-9 runs one game 1-2 runs the next.  And the Pioneer Press says in todays paper that Roc is going to start the 2nd half with a 4 man starting rotation.  I guess that means 9 BP guys?  Makes sense, I guess, when you are in love with your pen pitching close to half the innings.  It will be interesting to see how long it takes to go back to 5 or even 6.  When we sucked in past times I at least understood how and why we sucked.  And when we were doing great I understood why then, too.  Now?  We go from 1st to last, back to first again (at least at the break), hit 4 home runs one game and can't get a sacrifice fly, much less a single to score runners the next, pitch a gem one day, and give up 11 runs the next.  We never have a regular line up either in the field or in the batting order, and I have yet to figure out why pitchers get pulled and when.  We will not play what was once called small ball, because it goes against Roc's computer spread sheets.  So we adjust our "launch angle" and swing for the fences; even Bremer and Perkins say as much during games sometimes.  Worked in '19; not so much in '21.  Today?  See above.  I hear everyone say it is just the way the game is today, that everyone does it this way, but no one can explain why.  Except that they are trying to cut down on injuries.......how is that working out for us?  Even the guys on national TV say we have more injuries than almost any team in the league. up to, and including, the minor league clubs.  I could go on the rest of the afternoon, but I would drive myself even more crazy than I am already.  Far wiser folks than me (yes, there are those out there   ) might be able to understand this outfit, and if you are out there, give me a hand.  

Start with this question.  Aside from the 23 home runs, we have a guy hitting .216 and striking out exactly one out of every three official at bats.  Picture Sano with 23 home runs and the other stats above.  On what planet does he make the All Star team?  Or any other player for that matter.  As much as we all love Buck, how does that happen?  How many other teams' fans are going to compare those stats with their CF and ask the same question.  And don't answer it is his defense; I can't think of a time in my adult lifetime that a player has been selected to the squad for his defense.  Home runs are nice, but look deeper and tell me where he is one of the top offensive players in the AL (I know, I know, his OPS.  Doesn't make up for a .293 OBA)  But I digress.  I only know I knew this game well and understood it for 40 years.  The last 5-10 are like I flew in from another planet and am trying to figure out what all these earthlings are watching........and why?  Sometimes I wonder if the guys in the HOF don't ask the same questions I do.  

You guys are right; we need 5 days off.    

Been shutout ELEVEN times too. Been shutout in 11% of their games. Bad bad bad

[Mark G]

9 hours ago, puckstopper1 said:

I'm not sure how old you are, Mark, but Ozzie Smith made 15 all-star games mostly because of his defense. ?

You may very well be right, but I would submit he made it quite a few of those years based on reputation as much as anything else.  He also was not a bad hitter.  From '84 to '94 he never hit below .254 with pretty decent, if not healthy, on base percentages.  He was a complete player (except for home runs).  I just can't help but believe Buck is getting in on his reputation, not his overall stats.  Let's hope he makes a game saving catch.    

[rv78]

One thing to remember, the FO said this team would be "competitive" they didn't say they would be a "contender". So far, it looks like their plan is working. If they improve the club before the deadline then we can hope they maybe changed their plan.

[puckstopper1]

12 hours ago, Mark G said:

You may very well be right, but I would submit he made it quite a few of those years based on reputation as much as anything else.  He also was not a bad hitter.  From '84 to '94 he never hit below .254 with pretty decent, if not healthy, on base percentages.  He was a complete player (except for home runs).  I just can't help but believe Buck is getting in on his reputation, not his overall stats.  Let's hope he makes a game saving catch.    

Buxton is also likely in based on his hot streaks.  The game has changed, that is for sure.  Aside from some of Ozzie's appearances one would be hard pressed to find someone with a lower batting average playing in an all-star game.

You hope for a game saving catch, I'll hope he doesn't get injured. ?

[RpR]

It could be worse, as I write this Boston is losing to Toronto 27-4.

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, RpR said:

It could be worse, as I write this Boston is losing to Toronto 27-4.

Boston losing is most assuredly not worse.