Twins ultimate "WHAT IF" Pitching staff

[Jack Griffin]

The Twins pitching staff right now is not good, that absolutely goes without saying. When trying to figure out how it got to that point, that depends on who you ask.

Most people play the "hindsight is 20/20" card a lot without knowing, i.e. "we shouldn't have traded xyz for abc because y turned out good or a turned out bad..." It happens all the time throughout sports. Lets play that game and check out what COULD HAVE been if the Twins were currently in a vacuum and didn't make certain moves or kept certain players. 

Rotation:

1. Jose Berrios
2. Lance Lynn
3. Sonny Gray
4. Michael Pineda
5. Kyle Gibson

If only we could have this rotation with the current offense the Twins have. Reversing the Berrios trade is a pretty easy one, with the return still in the minors so we are unsure how good they will both be. Although he as struggled thus far this season, if I was a betting man (which I am) I'd wager he'll figure it out soon enough. Keeping Lance Lynn is one I'm slightly unsure on, based off his 2022 results so far (Although basically everyone on that team is struggling). I, like many, want to forget his time with the Twins, plus the return on him was basically nothing, but he's been very solid since. Sonny Gray is an easy decision, he's been solid this year, same for Pineda. The name Kyle Gibson alone may turn some Twins fans heads, but he's been quietly solid for the Phillies and Rangers. 

Bullpen (No particular order):

1. Brusdar Graterol
2. Ryan Pressly
3. Taylor Rogers
4. Zack Littell
5. Jhoan Duran
6. Caleb Thielbar
7. Trevor May
8. Josh Winder

Wow, imaging this pen compared to the nightmare we currently have is so disappointing. The bullpen is a much more interesting one to think about compared to the rotation. I choose Graterol over Maeda because I figured we needed the pen help more than the starters. Pressly was an easy one, although that removed Alcala from the potential bullpen which is unfortunate. Rogers is another easy one, Paddack and Pagan have clearly not worked out so far. Zack Littell might be a confusing one to some Twins fans, but he just had his best year with the Giants. He's really the main one I wish the Twins held on to, they could really use him this year. Duran is a no-brainer, that really requires no explanation. After that point you can really plug in a ton of different players, I just chose a few decent ones.

Did I forget any big ones? Do you disagree with any of them? let's discuss.

 

[cmoss84]

Is this Jack Griffin or Griffin Jax?

[jorgenswest]

What does the list look like if it only included players that would still be under the Twins control? 

[Mortimerkenny21]

I think I would take Joe Ryan over Pineda. But that's just me. I haven't paid attention to what Pineda has done this year.

[nicksaviking]

The bullpen might be nice, but that rotation looks pretty bad.

Berrios, Lynn and Gibson haven't been good. And you're still about three starters short considering Gray, Pineda and Lynn have all been missing large chunks of time, including a sizable stretch starting in mid May when they were all out at the same time.

Also, you're going to have to give up Carlos Correa because your payroll is already at about 85M and we haven't added any bats yet.

[SwainZag]

The Twins got Duran back in the trade for Escobar, I don't think he would be eligible for this pen.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

In the MLB, By ERA this current team is ranked 9th. By FIP it’s ranked 20, by SIERA it’s ranked 12, by just runs allowed it’s ranked 9th.

this pitching staff is average, maybe slightly better than average if you squint real hard.

The current rotation by ERA is 10th at 3.81

the proposed rotation would be 25th at 4.69

The current bullpen is ranked 14th in era at 3.70

the proposed would be ranked 26th at 4.46 ERA

 

no thanks 

[old nurse]

When looking hindsight you still have to keep a look at current. May has been out most of the year with a triceps strain. Little os out with an oblique strain and Covid. If you are going by any of the former Twins best years, it would be a no brainer. If only every trade worked out perfectly. If Alcala had not been injured and maintained his current ERA things would be a lot different. I wouldn’t expect him to, but looking for the best seems to be the rule on this one, so I will use it

[old nurse]

You forgot Liam Hendricks in your scenario.

[old nurse]

1 hour ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

In the MLB, By ERA this current team is ranked 9th. By FIP it’s ranked 20, by SIERA it’s ranked 12, by just runs allowed it’s ranked 9th.

this pitching staff is average, maybe slightly better than average if you squint real hard.

The current rotation by ERA is 10th at 3.81

the proposed rotation would be 25th at 4.69

The current bullpen is ranked 14th in era at 3.70

the proposed would be ranked 26th at 4.46 ERA

 

no thanks 

Deadly aim there. You shot that one down

[Squirrel]

Well done, T3

[DocBauer]

A fun exercise to be sure. Forget what Berrios signed for, would he have done similar with us, maybe a year or two less, should they have offered a large and long deal a year earlier, etc, I didn't like losing him and really, really wanted to keep him. And I'd bet he gets himself figured out.

I know it's a "what if" exercise, but I think Lynn was in a poor mood with how his offseason went and just didn't fit. But Ryan could take his spot.

I'd be happy with Ryan over Lynn.

[Jack Griffin]

23 hours ago, cmoss84 said:

Is this Jack Griffin or Griffin Jax?

Haha I remember thinking it was so odd when he was drafted. The fact he has turned into a decent contributor is even funnier

[Twodogs]

I think this pitching staff probably would have looked a lot lot better last year than how they are performing currently.  Berrios had a real nice start in his last game.  Lynn has been hurt along with a couple of other guys, so in hindsight, being 20/20 the Twins would have had to fill in the rotation with guys like Smeltzer, Archer, Ober, etc.....  So I'm not sure if the Twins would be in a worse place right now with that rotation.  Rotation wise the Twins would have had to have used the guys they've used up to this point anyway.

 

The bullpen is interesting for sure.  That pen has a lot more firepower as far as straight velocity is concerned.  Flamethrowers such as Grateral, Presley, and Duran give plenty of late inning options where they could get that K that they need to end a rally rather than giving up a fly ball for a sacrifice run etc.....  With Presley Rodger would be that late inning lefty that they'd need, or any higher leverage type of inning.  Plus yes if I'm dreaming of what once was I'd definitely add Liam Hendriks into the pen.  Again, he's been dinged up this year also, but going forward he's probably going to be pretty tough.   

[Ryan Atkins]

On 7/14/2022 at 1:07 PM, Jack Griffin said:

Did I forget any big ones?

No. But I might take this year's Martin Perez (7-2, 2.68), an All-Star for Texas, over this year's Lance Lynn.

[bean5302]

It's kind of fun to imagine stuff like this, but I'm only interested in former Twins who the Twins actually would still control.
Lynn
Pineda
Gibson
Pressley
May

The Twins wouldn't have any control over those players so they all would have been signed in free agency or extended before getting there. I'd easily take Maeda over Graterol should Maeda return in September and Berrios is getting thrashed this year after getting paid.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I think the question of team control is irrelevant, Anyone can be controlled for the right price, even another team’s first round draft pick (Chase Petty is doing well in Cinci’s system).

The Correa deal ought to have showed us that Wheeler would have come to the Twins for 2020 for the right price.

Those of us who wanted Yu Darvish prior to the 2018 season were subject to a healthy dose of schauenfreude when Darvish immediately got hurt after signing. I played the long game and didn’t give up on that take, and Darvish has performed since then, if not All Star.

I will likewise play the long game on Berrios. Any pitcher is capable of a successful stretch of 8-10 starts (thank you Devin Smeltzer), and likewise any pitcher who has had some long term success earns the right to a mulligan for 8-10 starts, too. Berrios has done just fine his last few outings. He may be coming around. Time will tell. How will the Berrios trade look in three years? I don’t know. But the two players we got in return for Berrios from Toronto will be slipping down the minor league rankings heading into next season. 

Tyler Wells is another name you could add to the hypothetical bullpen list or even rotation for this season.

Lots of other posters here have chipped in good words for several other pitchers a little lower in the system who have departed over the past few seasons.

There is unfortunately no magic taking place, no broad new philosophy at work here, within this team’s brain trust, to build a pitching juggernaut. It’s just the usual scouting, coaching, development, and transactions. And that’s okay! We all hope that the front office starts hitting on some of these transactions, starting with the 2022 trade deadline coming up, We can still all come together and cheer for the Twins when the money is on the line. 

[Twodogs]

Berrios had another solid start today.  I think he's coming out of his funk.

[Battle ur tail off]

On 7/16/2022 at 10:58 AM, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I think the question of team control is irrelevant, Anyone can be controlled for the right price, even another team’s first round draft pick (Chase Petty is doing well in Cinci’s system).

The Correa deal ought to have showed us that Wheeler would have come to the Twins for 2020 for the right price.

Those of us who wanted Yu Darvish prior to the 2018 season were subject to a healthy dose of schauenfreude when Darvish immediately got hurt after signing. I played the long game and didn’t give up on that take, and Darvish has performed since then, if not All Star.

I will likewise play the long game on Berrios. Any pitcher is capable of a successful stretch of 8-10 starts (thank you Devin Smeltzer), and likewise any pitcher who has had some long term success earns the right to a mulligan for 8-10 starts, too. Berrios has done just fine his last few outings. He may be coming around. Time will tell. How will the Berrios trade look in three years? I don’t know. But the two players we got in return for Berrios from Toronto will be slipping down the minor league rankings heading into next season. 

Tyler Wells is another name you could add to the hypothetical bullpen list or even rotation for this season.

Lots of other posters here have chipped in good words for several other pitchers a little lower in the system who have departed over the past few seasons.

There is unfortunately no magic taking place, no broad new philosophy at work here, within this team’s brain trust, to build a pitching juggernaut. It’s just the usual scouting, coaching, development, and transactions. And that’s okay! We all hope that the front office starts hitting on some of these transactions, starting with the 2022 trade deadline coming up, We can still all come together and cheer for the Twins when the money is on the line. 

I like this post. Berrios has talent. You can see it when he throws. His stuff is undeniable. It hasn't changed. Command it and he gets back to where he was. 

I didn't mind the trade but don't like getting back guys that aren't really even talked about for our Ace. I still think having him on top of our rotation this year would be fun. But then of course they probably don't go out and get Gray. 

Ends up honestly working like a trade of Berrios(26yo) for a season and a half and Petty for Gray(32yo) for 2 years(and less money)and two kids Toronto gave us. 

Those 2 kids have to work out(at least one), to make that a good trade. Otherwise, and as it stands, IMO it looks closer to bust than success(as of right now anyway).

[Twodogs]

I didn't like that they basically gave up on Berrios.  I mean he hasn't had a stellar season, but like you said with the front end of the rotation looking like Berrios and Gray I think we look a little better.  

 

I always think back to the Johan Santana trade.  In the long run, value wise, since Santana ended up blowing out his arm, I suppose the trade looks like it might have been a win for the Twins since they probably would have owed Santana money after his shoulder injury.  But I know that the Twins had pretty good seasons in 2008, 2009, and 2010.  What kind of difference would Santana have made on those Twins teams?  Would it have been acceptable for the twins to have eaten a big portion of a Santana contract had they won the World Series in one of those 3 seasons?  

 

Now I really hope the kids the Twins got for Berrios turns out to be good, but it seems as a lifelong twins fan that as soon as those guys get good they will trade them too, if they even turn out.  It seems like the twins are more concerned about value in the future than winning for the moment.  I mean there were 5 - 6 crappy seasons after the world series in 91.  But would you guys have traded that 91 world series for 3 or 4 more division titles in the late 90's but losing in the first round of the playoff all of the time?  

 

Just my opinion, but I think Berrios makes the rotation a lot more competitive this year.  But I guess we have hope that the kids we got for Berrios become good.  So we got that going for us.