How Badly Do The Twins Need Catching Help?

[Doctor Gast]

We do have a problem at catching both offensively & defensively. We need Contreras longer than a rental if we can resign him it'd be great. I'd not resign Sanchez and trade Jeffers to upgrade catching.

Long range I'd select a catcher and Tarheel had made an excellent suggestion. Why not transition Wallner to catcher? He profiles better there and there's no future for Wallner in the OF, we are really stacked out there. And catching is a need. Why not? See how quick he is at adjusting, he might take to it like a duck to water.

[bean5302]

Sanchez is fine. I'd be inclined to move Sanchez to the starting every day catcher and Jeffers be the backup, but regardless, the Twins' need to upgrade at catcher is minimal. Even with Jeffers performing as-is, there are other higher priorities in my opinion.

[mikelink45]

2 hours ago, PopRiveter said:

Wow. I'm surprised. I expected the opposite of this:

His recent hitting to get from 192 to 211 pushed him up.  Sanchez is just what we expected, but I thought his power would have him above Jeffers.  Godoy is filler - nothing more. 

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

We do have a problem at catching both offensively & defensively. We need Contreras longer than a rental if we can resign him it'd be great. I'd not resign Sanchez and trade Jeffers to upgrade catching.

Long range I'd select a catcher and Tarheel had made an excellent suggestion. Why not transition Wallner to catcher? He profiles better there and there's no future for Wallner in the OF, we are really stacked out there. And catching is a need. Why not? See how quick he is at adjusting, he might take to it like a duck to water.

How infrequently position players transition to catcher might suggest why not.  It's an incredibly difficult defensive position.  Someone who has never played the position transitioning at this point is going to be rare.

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

We do have a problem at catching both offensively & defensively. We need Contreras longer than a rental if we can resign him it'd be great. I'd not resign Sanchez and trade Jeffers to upgrade catching.

Long range I'd select a catcher and Tarheel had made an excellent suggestion. Why not transition Wallner to catcher? He profiles better there and there's no future for Wallner in the OF, we are really stacked out there. And catching is a need. Why not? See how quick he is at adjusting, he might take to it like a duck to water.

I'm thoroughly confused as to where this idea of just moving guys behind the plate came from. We don't have much for SS depth in the minors either, should we move Wallner there next if he isn't good at catcher? Matt Wallner is 6'5" tall. Grayson Greiner is the tallest catcher in MLB history at 6'6". Matt Weiters, Joe Mauer, and Larry McLean are the only other catchers I'm aware of that were 6'5" or taller. The average catcher is shorter than 6'1". The receiving techniques the Twins teach now are all based around getting as low as possible. I don't have any idea why people think a 6'5" Wallner could just pop behind the plate and catch. Why would he even be open to putting that extra wear and tear on his knees anyways?

[Platoon]

Baseball is getting confusing. So catching has now become an offensive position for a player who can "frame" pitches? Passed balls, non blocked wild pitches, and base stealers running Willy nilly mean nothing. Defensively turning  a walk or single into a double is fine? At the same time turning a singles hitter into an extra base guy is celebrated ? Letting someone get another base is a defensive liability regardless. Add on the fact that no pitcher wants to miss with that 1-2 slider down and away to a one legged pitch framer would seem obvious. 
 

I have never been a fan of Robo umps. But maybe it’s time for us to get what we deserve. We have turned a wonderful, albeit slow, game into a dreadful slog! Replays to determine a call which require measurements that would make a NASA engineer proud. That stupid tv box which makes every fan an umpire, and every umpire wrong. I think it’s time to bring on the bots, and finish the job. A statistically perfect game, that maybe a couple of analytical professors at MIT will watch over lunch? 

[bean5302]

33 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm thoroughly confused as to where this idea of just moving guys behind the plate came from. We don't have much for SS depth in the minors either, should we move Wallner there next if he isn't good at catcher? Matt Wallner is 6'5" tall. Grayson Greiner is the tallest catcher in MLB history at 6'6". Matt Weiters, Joe Mauer, and Larry McLean are the only other catchers I'm aware of that were 6'5" or taller. The average catcher is shorter than 6'1". The receiving techniques the Twins teach now are all based around getting as low as possible. I don't have any idea why people think a 6'5" Wallner could just pop behind the plate and catch. Why would he even be open to putting that extra wear and tear on his knees anyways?

Wallner had some closer duty at Southern Miss. Maybe he learned how to catch through osmosis of talking to the receivers? LOL

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, bean5302 said:

Wallner had some closer duty at Southern Miss. Maybe he learned how to catch through osmosis of talking to the receivers? LOL

There's a need for bullpen arms in Minneapolis as well. Maybe he can catch, close, and DH? Shohei who?!

[bean5302]

Honestly, it is kind of interesting to think of how well position players with strong arms might be able to cover the catcher position when pitch framing goes out of the mix. From a technical standpoint, I'm guessing it wouldn't be a huge reach. From a physicality standpoint, though, the leg strength would probably be a real problem.

Even a veteran catcher like Mauer took months to build his legs back up to handle the load.

[tony&rodney]

Catchers need some time to learn the pitchers usually and there is no reason to trade for Contreras because he will want to go through the free agent process for sure. If the Twins want they can get in the bidding for Contreras in the offseason. Leave the catching alone for now and focus on pitching.

[Riverbrian]

I have been consistent in my advocacy of position flexibility.

I believe it is necessary to allow the best minor league call up when the opportunity for call up opens up.  

I believe it is necessary in order to staff a deep 26 man roster, to find playing time for all and promote open competition through actual performance on the field. 

I have been consistent in my desire to see more position flexibility at the major league and minor league level. 

 

However, with that said... At Catcher... Nope... no way. That's a special defensive position that requires unique skills that need to be developed. Now... you can move catcher to other positions though like IKF or Varsho in Arizona.... Or Joe What's his Name with the Twins. ?    

 

[DJL44]

5 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Why not transition Wallner to catcher? 

He's 6 foot 5

[stringer bell]

11 hours ago, MGM4706 said:

Definitely need an upgrade. Jeffers only hits a HR when it doesn't matter. 

Not true IMHO. Jeffers hit two homers in Texas, one brought the team within a run, the other gave them the lead. He also hit a key homer in Baltimore and another one in Seattle. That is four of his seven homers. There's plenty to gripe about with his average, but he has hit more than his share of important long balls.

[stringer bell]

There was a recent thread about Jeffers' offense. He's middle of the road for catchers and at least in the past couple of weeks he is trending upwards.

For the future, I would hope that the Twins could find someone with whom they can share the catching duties (with Jeffers), preferably a LH hitter who is pretty strong defensively. I don't think I would like to keep Sanchez around for the kind of money he is already making.

[ashbury]

If I'm reading this thread right, here's the consensus: Convert Wallner To Umpire

Who's with me?

[DocBauer]

14 hours ago, PopRiveter said:

This got me to look into the splits since a lot of Sanchez PA’s and some Jeffers PA’s have been at DH.

Twins catchers’ stats combined (when catching):

.205/.273/.390 .662 OPS

346 pa, 19 2b, 13 hr,  41 rbi

I hate that batting average, but the power helps. Overall those numbers seem fine to me for the catching position. So what does sOPS+ think?

sOPS+ 101

That’s almost exactly average. Not a strength, not a weakness.

 

THIS! 

I just can't believe we are having the 3rd or 4th thread about catching.

In regard to the OP and the passed balls and SB % of Jeffers from 2021 to 2022. Both worse. Is it injury? Is it adjusting to new pitchers? Is he just  having a tougher year for whatever reason?

If his 2023 numbers for caught stealing and passed balls are better Is he owed an apology?

The single, #1 job of a catcher is "handling" the pitching staff and calling a good game from about 30 arms you are going to have to work with. 25-30yrs ago or so, catcher was a defensive only position. Think Boone, Sundberg and a plethora of high quality catchers. Then there was a sort of Renaissance at the position with Rodriguez, Carter, Santiago, Mauer, Posey, etc. And Mauer might have been one of the last, along with Perez from KC, who might be nearing the end.

Jeffers is a quality receiver who has the trust of the staff. He's only 25yo in the middle of his 2nd full season. But he stinks and is not part of the future because he's not as good as 2021 in some metrics? Maybe it's his fault. Maybe it's the staff. Maybe he's in a rough patch and will get better, and closer to his 2021 numbers.

Maybe if his bat was working better everyone would just dismiss his lower caught % and PB numbers?

FWIW, he's been hitting at about a .300 clip his last 15 games with power. 

I just find it ridiculous we're trying to tear down a 25yo catcher in yet another OP who is still growing and learning but who is a solid overall receiver and has a ton of potential who had just barely eclipsed 2 full years of roster time. 

Just sucks he's not already Mauer or Posada right? 

I am far more worried about his 2023 partner than I am Jeffers and his ability and potential.

And I'm even MORE worried about the 2022 and even 2023 pen than I am about a young catcher who is solid and has potential.

Hating on a young backstop who is solid and has a ton of potential, and who has flashed, is just old vs other needs in the pen is simply not worth debating yet again.

You want to talk 2023 at some point? I'm with you.

 

[Einheri]

Yeah, the main issue is that these catchers DH.  Stop that.

[Platoon]

In Little League softball and baseball they will sometimes put a parent at the backstop to retrieve the endless balls that get buy those 8 yr. old  "catchers"!  This could be the solution to our problem. Guys from my era like Jim Thome and Tony O could have transitioned behind the plate. Since it’s been statistically proven that wild pitches, passed balls and allowing throw out rates on stolen bases that would get most VFW catchers benched, (not to mention not having to learn how to hide your pinkies between your legs for all those confusing little sign thingies) all our elderly transitional players would need is a little 3 legged stool to sit on! Yes, they would have to promise to remove it for a slide play at the plate, but maybe since the umpire has extra time he could help out? 

[DJL44]

Nobody should worry about Jeffers CS%. Major league baseball teams only run when they have a 75% (or better) chance of being successful. An average big league catcher will throw out 25% of baserunners. If Jeffers throws out the next two runners who attempt a steal he'll be right at league average.

Looking at it a different way, he's allowed 3 bases above league average to runners on steal attempts or about 1 every 150 innings caught. That's it - 1 extra base allowed every 150 innings.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

On 7/13/2022 at 9:34 AM, Byrdman said:

They are catchers, they are playing pretty much at league level in the AL. There are only two that are sticking out higher, Kirk and Heim than most.  We will never have another Joe Mauer.  Jeffers and Sanchez are perfectly fine.  Garver had one good year at the plate.  Catchers are catchers they have never been great hitters.  We do not have a catcher problem.

I agree that we are OK with the 2 catchers we have healthy today, but we will have a big catcher problem if/when either Jeffers or Sanchez gets hurt. Also we have a catcher problem because there is not 1 catcher in the Twins top 30 prospects. So I ask who will replace Sanchez and Jeffers in the event of injuries and/or free agency?  

[jorgenswest]

7 minutes ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

So I ask who will replace Sanchez and Jeffers in the event of injuries and/or free agency?  

Fair question.

The focus should be on 2022 now but they will need to add a catcher this winter. That part of the question doesn’t need an answer now.

As for injuries I would guess most teams would have depth trouble at catcher. The Guardians ran into depth trouble and picked up Sandy Leon for cash. He was recently DFA’d again. I would guess the Twins would have to do something similar if they were not confident in the defense of their AAA options. 

[ashbury]

4 hours ago, Platoon said:

In Little League softball and baseball they will sometimes put a parent at the backstop to retrieve the endless balls that get buy those 8 yr. old  "catchers"!  This could be the solution to our problem. 

Disconcur.  8-year olds might be okay behind the plate with that assistance, but they haven't learned yet to hit the curveball.

[IowaBeancounter]

I believe that most of a catcher's value is how he handles the pitchers.  I don't know how to find the Twins' pitchers ERA when pitching to Jeffers or Sanchez, based on my eye test I would expect that they would have a lower stats when pitching to Jeffers.  JMHO

[kenbuddha]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

8-year olds might be okay behind the plate with that assistance, but they haven't learned yet to hit the curveball.

That's just bad parenting!

[Byrdman]

6 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

I agree that we are OK with the 2 catchers we have healthy today, but we will have a big catcher problem if/when either Jeffers or Sanchez gets hurt. Also we have a catcher problem because there is not 1 catcher in the Twins top 30 prospects. So I ask who will replace Sanchez and Jeffers in the event of injuries and/or free agency?  

Jose Godoy will just come up again if one is hurt.  He will only play once every 3rd day or just the day games.  We don't really have a lot in the minors but we can certainly find someone this off season or through a trade.  If we make it to the playoffs, we really only need one catcher anyway with the off days.