Disgust

[Nine of twelve]

3 hours ago, Squirrel said:

I’d agree if we were facing ace pitching each and every time we failed to score. How many times have the bases been loaded and 1 or 0 outs and we score only 1 or less? That’s not pitching, that’s offense not doing it’s job. If we can load the bases, we should be able to score. I agree that sometimes it’s pitching, but many times it’s not. Our offense has been very streaky inconsistent and not been able to take advantage when they should

Almost every pitcher in the major leagues is capable of having a good day. Otherwise they wouldn't be in the major leagues. We all know that offense has fallen off throughout the majors, and while I'm sure there are other factors I think this just happens to be a year in which more pitchers than usual are having good days. Neither one of us has specific stats to back up our respective points of view, but I think good pitching is a bigger factor than weak offense. Occam's Razor tells me this.

[Squirrel]

4 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

Almost every pitcher in the major leagues is capable of having a good day. Otherwise they wouldn't be in the major leagues. We all know that offense has fallen off throughout the majors, and while I'm sure there are other factors I think this just happens to be a year in which more pitchers than usual are having good days. Neither one of us has specific stats to back up our respective points of view, but I think good pitching is a bigger factor than weak offense. Occam's Razor tells me this.

Lol ... Occam's Razor ... the simplest theory is that the offense isn't getting it done when the situation needs it, not that you need to invent reasons for it

[Nine of twelve]

On 7/8/2022 at 3:20 PM, Mike Sixel said:

Losses like that are definitely annoying and not good for the team. I'm not super worried at this point about the regular season, though there is an inkling of doubt settling in if Ryan doesn't return to form. 

On the other hand, this team could be on pace for 120 wins, and this board would still whine and complain about Baldelli and spreadsheets and stat heads. Even in threads about players of the month. Even in threads celebrating something. Over and over. 

 

On 7/8/2022 at 4:02 PM, USAFChief said:

"This board?" No.

Some posters.  Who, by the way, have as much right to question the manager as you do to support him.

Attacking other posters, however, is out of bounds. And you're skirting the boundary of that. 

 

Let's all let others talk.

 

Disagree with them? Fine. Please stick to why.

I will also admit to experiencing frustration and even borderline anger (or, I suppose, keeping to the topic, disgust) from some of the posts I read, including but not limited to ones about Baldelli and his managerial decisions. While I recognize and endorse the right of anyone to express an opinion, many opinions expressed in these forums seem in my view not to be reasonable. The thing is, it's not possible to have a rational discussion with someone who is not rational. So rather than attempting the difficult task of responding to each and every post with which I have an issue I am starting to wonder if I should either put a large portion of posters on ignore or just stop coming to this site. I don't know which would be worse, but I know which would be simpler.

[Nine of twelve]

37 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Lol ... Occam's Razor ... the simplest theory is that the offense isn't getting it done when the situation needs it, not that you need to invent reasons for it

No, the simplest theory is that good pitching will defeat good hitting, as it has ever been and as it shall ever be.

[Squirrel]

2 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

No, the simplest theory is that good pitching will defeat good hitting, as it has ever been and as it shall ever be.

I agree with that premise in general, but that isn't what is happening with the Twins hitting. As I stated above, yes, a well-pitched game would be an explanation for some of the losses, but consistent situational hitting is a problem with this team ... and that isn't explained away with 'but the pitching on the other team.' Sometimes the simplest explanation is the offense just isn't getting it done when they need to.

[Nine of twelve]

4 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I agree with that premise in general, but that isn't what is happening with the Twins hitting. As I stated above, yes, a well-pitched game would be an explanation for some of the losses, but consistent situational hitting is a problem with this team ... and that isn't explained away with 'but the pitching on the other team.' Sometimes the simplest explanation is the offense just isn't getting it done when they need to.

According to statmuse.com the Twins are 6th in the majors in batting average with RISP so their situational hitting is actually quite good. I think it's important to keep in mind that in close and late situations the opposition is likely to have one of their better pitchers on the mound. It points to pitching as the reason behind the situations you cite.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, Nine of twelve said:

 

I will also admit to experiencing frustration and even borderline anger (or, I suppose, keeping to the topic, disgust) from some of the posts I read, including but not limited to ones about Baldelli and his managerial decisions. While I recognize and endorse the right of anyone to express an opinion, many opinions expressed in these forums seem in my view not to be reasonable. The thing is, it's not possible to have a rational discussion with someone who is not rational. So rather than attempting the difficult task of responding to each and every post with which I have an issue I am starting to wonder if I should either put a large portion of posters on ignore or just stop coming to this site. I don't know which would be worse, but I know which would be simpler.

Same. 

[lecroy24fan]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Same. 

I'm also in that boat. I've put several posters on ignore but they aren't ignored when quoted so it's a waste of my time to put them on ignore.

[Seth Stohs]

On 7/8/2022 at 1:48 PM, Number3 said:

I don't care who pitched what inning. All I know is that he pulled the starter after 4 and 85 pitches and the relief immediately gave up the tying run. He typically makes more trips to the mound than a hang gliding team at the Outer Banks. The number of pitchers usually is about 80% of the regulars who have to hit. He inserts pinch runners for no real reason at a cost of a better hitter maybe later in the game. He moves defenders all over the field for no apparent reason at critical times. He radically changes lineups every game so no one can get comfortable. Executive summary...he wishes he was still playing so he inserts himself into every game way more than necessary. His WAR is negative. He "manages" way too much.

4 innings pitched at 85 pitches... Just looking at that and nothing more, I would think that he would have been taken out! That's a lot of pitchers per inning, so the pitches were likely under stress. 

Not sure about the pinch running things. We questioned some things in 2019, but I can't remember that being an issue since. 

"No apparent reason" for moving defenders all over? I mean, I'll give you one... Because scouting reports tell them where the player hits the ball the most frequently and they put fielders there. 

Radically changed lineup - Well, again, he's got a few platoons, lefty-righty matchups, and based on who gets the day off, the lineup will change. And, I can't imagine that would be an issue for any major-league hitter. It's like we've forgotten in 1991 that Mike Pagliurulo and Scott Leius at third base. Platoon options can be good. 

Manages too much. That's the opposite I read and hear from most anti-Baldelli fans. He doesn't wish he was still playing any more than any other coach or manager. He is a smart guy who understands what players go through. He's been a coach. He's been a scout. He's worked in front offices. He fits the Derek Falvey plan to a T. They have all the numbers and use them in planning and understanding trends, but Baldelli also knows the real side of being a player. 

The chemistry on this team is remarkable and that's Baldelli. 

[Craig Arko]

10 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

 

I will also admit to experiencing frustration and even borderline anger (or, I suppose, keeping to the topic, disgust) from some of the posts I read, including but not limited to ones about Baldelli and his managerial decisions. While I recognize and endorse the right of anyone to express an opinion, many opinions expressed in these forums seem in my view not to be reasonable. The thing is, it's not possible to have a rational discussion with someone who is not rational. So rather than attempting the difficult task of responding to each and every post with which I have an issue I am starting to wonder if I should either put a large portion of posters on ignore or just stop coming to this site. I don't know which would be worse, but I know which would be simpler.

My ignore list is many pages long. It makes things tolerable. Although I can’t quite add everyone I’d like to.

[wabene]

11 hours ago, lecroy24fan said:

I'm also in that boat. I've put several posters on ignore but they aren't ignored when quoted so it's a waste of my time to put them on ignore.

I put one poster on ignore, but just checked the box for their posts so I see when others quote them. There are additional boxes to check such as mentions which, I think, would do what you're looking for. 

2 hours ago, Craig Arko said:

My ignore list is many pages long. It makes things tolerable. Although I can’t quite add everyone I’d like to. 

Why can't you add everyone, there would be nothing to read? ?

I suppose one of both of you may not see this ?

[wabene]

This site has revealed things about myself such as yes, I'm still a bit of a hot head. I suppose getting angry means I care about this site. It might be nostalgia but I remember a much better vibe and lots of good traffic on the game threads. There has always been negativity present and balance is good. The problem is the crushingly boring and repetitive negativity has drowned out other voices and tamped down traffic. 

I'll take the goofy mindless cheering of the game threads during the surprising and super fun Bomba Squad run any day! 

[TheBoofIsLoose]

41 minutes ago, wabene said:

This site has revealed things about myself such as yes, I'm still a bit of a hot head. I suppose getting angry means I care about this site. It might be nostalgia but I remember a much better vibe and lots of good traffic on the game threads. There has always been negativity present and balance is good. The problem is the crushingly boring and repetitive negativity has drowned out other voices and tamped down traffic. 

I'll take the goofy mindless cheering of the game threads during the surprising and super fun Bomba Squad run any day! 

I think you hit the nail on the head with this analysis. Maybe it's rose-tinted glasses, but it didn't feel quite so negative on here even during the 2016 season. The success of the 2019 season definitely brought a large influx of new users to the site and I genuinely believe that the creators/writers/contributors deserve the level of success this site has achieved, but it's a bit of a double-edged sword as discussions have gotten considerably worse in my observation. Repetitiveness might be the most glaring issue, it would be one thing if we had these same arguments even once a week rather than seemingly every other day. I'm starting to feel like McConaughey in True Detective ranting about time as a flat circle, maybe I should just be crushing Lone Star like he does instead. 

[Vanimal46]

You’re doing something wrong when the game thread environment on Reddit, with self moderation, is more enjoyable than a Twins-centric site with volunteer moderators. 

[Craig Arko]

9 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

You’re doing something wrong when the game thread environment on Reddit, with self moderation, is more enjoyable than a Twins-centric site with volunteer moderators. 

Self moderation is the only moderation that works. More people should practice it.

[Nine of twelve]

12 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

Self moderation is the only moderation that works. More people should practice it.

All things in moderation, including moderation.

[Squirrel]

21 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

Self moderation is the only moderation that works. More people should practice it.

 

30 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

You’re doing something wrong when the game thread environment on Reddit, with self moderation, is more enjoyable than a Twins-centric site with volunteer moderators. 

 

We actually tried that, and it didn't work. It just ended up with bickering and name calling and people commenting on the perceived character of posters and not on content. But, if you are game, then have at it in the game threads. But, the rules are ... you have to be objective and fair, (judging positive vs negative is subjective, so you have to try and remove that, if you can); you can't 'go after' certain posters just because you don't like them and what they have to say or how they say it; you can't have anyone on ignore; you have to be good at discerning between critical commentary and negativity just to be negative - not everyone is as articulate as you, so you have to be discerning about that, too, in order to be discerning about critical vs negative; no elitism; you have to also keep the 'positive trolls' in line as well; and you have to be present during the entire game to help direct the discussion to keep it on track, even during a really bad game. If we want to 'achieve' self moderation, everyone who is complaining about the negativity, has to be present and on board with this. And you have to do all this without 'attacking' anyone or calling them names or being overly sarcastic about anyone's intelligence.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Likewise, and conceding that no one here is perfect, whether writer, moderator, or thoughtful member, lets all recommit to the skill called “just keep scrolling past”

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

1 hour ago, TheBoofIsLoose said:

ranting about time as a flat circle

no, that would be the planet Earth ? 

[RickOShea]

On 7/8/2022 at 12:33 PM, Craig Arko said:

Disgust with a first place team? What are the expectations here?

The expectations should be to play a winning brand of baseball, not just being better than the teams in your division.  If you have aspirations of winning a world championship, it has to be based upon your performance.  Finishing first in your division or as a wild card, just opens the playoff door.  

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

15 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

No, the simplest theory is that good pitching will defeat good hitting, as it has ever been and as it shall ever be.

It’s one of life’s great paradoxes. “Hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in sports, but good pitching is harder to find than good hitting.” It’s why I love baseball!

[Craig Arko]

21 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

 

 

We actually tried that, and it didn't work. It just ended up with bickering and name calling and people commenting on the perceived character of posters and not on content. But, if you are game, then have at it in the game threads. But, the rules are ... you have to be objective and fair, (judging positive vs negative is subjective, so you have to try and remove that, if you can); you can't 'go after' certain posters just because you don't like them and what they have to say or how they say it; you can't have anyone on ignore; you have to be good at discerning between critical commentary and negativity just to be negative - not everyone is as articulate as you, so you have to be discerning about that, too, in order to be discerning about critical vs negative; no elitism; you have to also keep the 'positive trolls' in line as well; and you have to be present during the entire game to help direct the discussion to keep it on track, even during a really bad game. If we want to 'achieve' self moderation, everyone who is complaining about the negativity, has to be present and on board with this. And you have to do all this without 'attacking' anyone or calling them names or being overly sarcastic about anyone's intelligence.

In many cases the best self-moderation is to say nothing. This works for me in most of the game threads. Kind of the opposite of say, voting. If that qualifies as elitism, guilty as charged.

[lecroy24fan]

2 hours ago, wabene said:

I put one poster on ignore, but just checked the box for their posts so I see when others quote them. There are additional boxes to check such as mentions which, I think, would do what you're looking for. 

 

Doesn't matter if I've checked the boxes or not i still see them when they are quoted. And one of these I have checked every box on regularly trolls me and it frustrates me to see.

[Squirrel]

6 minutes ago, lecroy24fan said:

Doesn't matter if I've checked the boxes or not i still see them when they are quoted. And one of these I have checked every box on regularly trolls me and it frustrates me to see.

If you are being trolled, please send me a PM. Seriously. 

[Squirrel]

25 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

In many cases the best self-moderation is to say nothing. This works for me in most of the game threads. Kind of the opposite of say, voting. If that qualifies as elitism, guilty as charged.

Ah, well, I think that’s a bit different than what van had in mind. Yes, we all have choices.

[USAFChief]

17 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

No, the simplest theory is that good pitching will defeat good hitting, as it has ever been and as it shall ever be.

I'm in agreement with Mr Stengel: "Good pitching will always stop good hitting, and vice versa."

[ashbury]

3 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

It’s one of life’s great paradoxes. “Hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in sports, but good pitching is harder to find than good hitting.” It’s why I love baseball!

Hitting a baseball (or failing to) is easy for every fan to see, thus the popularity of the first half of the quote.  Throwing a baseball with movement to precisely the spot you intend while disguising your motion is, apparently if you go by results, even harder but also just about impossible to appreciate in the wild - except by inference from watching the batter try and fail.

[MMMordabito]

Arraez just went 0-5. Goin to casino and betting under on something.

[Nine of twelve]

4 hours ago, USAFChief said:

I'm in agreement with Mr Stengel: "Good pitching will always stop good hitting, and vice versa."

He obviously spent too much time with Yogi.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

6 hours ago, RickOShea said:

The expectations should be to play a winning brand of baseball, not just being better than the teams in your division.  If you have aspirations of winning a world championship, it has to be based upon your performance.  Finishing first in your division or as a wild card, just opens the playoff door.  

You can’t win a World Series in July.