Who is Part of the Twins' Long-Term Core Four?

[wsnydes]

8 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Arreaz is not a great defensive player, I agree, the overriding fact is he can hit. And I'm not building a team solely around him. TD Army is always complaining about 2 things. The bullpen and lack of hitting or lack of hitting with RISP. Solo homers are better than 2 run shots? Go back to Twins vs Yankees game when Cole pitched. 3 or 4 solo shots. Who won the game. ARREAZ, leadoff playing wherever for the next 5 years is a good start 

Won't disagree with any of that, that's just not who I'd prioritize to build around.

To each their own.  That's why this is a good talker.

[strumdatjag]

18 hours ago, old nurse said:

Neither Kepler nor Polanco will be with the team long enough for them to be considered core players going forwards. They will hit the big 30 and the analytics say decline, they will be gone like Rosario. Lewis with an injury history may be hard to consider core. Great when he plays, but there is when he doesn’t play. Same for Buxton. A super utility player is really the only core player the team has until the others show they can sustain a level of play

I agree. I think Kepler and Polanco are likely to be moved to make way for younger (cheaper) and maybe better people at their positions (Arraez, Larnach,  Celestino, Steer …).  

[Mark G]

25 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

Not one that doesn't have a position in the field and isn't a great defender anyway.  Sure, he can DH, but I don't really want to build a team around a DH.

Half our non pitching roster doesn't have a set position in the field, and close to half, if not half, DH's at one time or another.  And I would submit half our roster aren't the best fielders the team has ever seen either.  I don't know that he is THE GUY you would build a roster around, but he is in the top 2 or 3 players here and now that we will need in the next few years to keep winning, at least in my extremely humble opinion.  

[ashbury]

40 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

You can't build a team around a guy who gets on base 40% of the time? As General McAuliff said to the German surrender proposal during the Battle of the Bulge. NUTS!

The only general who wouldn't have said something a bit earthier than that.

[mikelink45]

23 hours ago, Ex-Iowegian said:

To me, something is out of whack with this premise. Searching for players on the current roster to comprise a "core 4" and then  comparing to the Evil Empire core players, and even to the '87 and '91 Twins seems like an oxymoron or something.

Shouldn't a core group have some kind of history together longer than 4-1/2 months of a couple of seasons to qualify? Maybe some kind of mutual accomplishments consisting of more than leading the AL Central for a few months? These guys haven't done anything yet.

Sorry, but my thoughts lead more to the core players of The Big Red Machine, or half the roster of the Orioles in the late 60's early 70's. That kind of magnitude.

Or the Mathews, Spahn, Aaron, Adcock braves.

[Schmoeman5]

34 minutes ago, Mark G said:

No 35 million dollar man is; would be too easy, wouldn't it?    

It would. But that's only if he's here. Would be nice if that happened. 

[mikelink45]

12 hours ago, Aichiman said:

Sorry but I disconcur.  My core 4 would be Arraez, Kirilloff, Polanco, and Miranda.  Goodbye Byron.

Thanks - I too have less reliance on Buxton.  Great power, great speed - just is not on the field enough, if he is DH his value diminishes.  Batting 218 his value diminishes.  I want Byron to be a top four, but he is not there now and has been only for a few stretches. 

[cHawk]

8 hours ago, Aichiman said:

Yeah.  It's called a trade.

 

Now why would the Twins trade Buxton when he’s their best player?

[Ex-Iowegian]

6 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

Or the Mathews, Spahn, Aaron, Adcock braves.

Now we're talkin!

[wsnydes]

33 minutes ago, Mark G said:

Half our non pitching roster doesn't have a set position in the field, and close to half, if not half, DH's at one time or another.  And I would submit half our roster aren't the best fielders the team has ever seen either.  I don't know that he is THE GUY you would build a roster around, but he is in the top 2 or 3 players here and now that we will need in the next few years to keep winning, at least in my extremely humble opinion.  

He may be a top 3 player now, but what about down the road?  That's where I'm looking.  I think Lewis will be the better player overall.  Which is why I chose him over Arraez.

And half of the position player roster are corner types where none are demonstrably better than the other aside from Kirilloff.  You can maybe make a case for Larnach too, but I'm not going to yet.  You can't say that about Arraez.  Arraez's best positions are manned by guys that aren't going to be unseated.  Polanco is a better all around player, in my opinion, so he's not going anywhere.  Urshela is a much better glove and will be the every day 3B.  While Arraez is capable at 1B, that won't be his long term home.

[bunsen82]

If a core is to exist -   For the next 4 years  here is my guess and I am going to have 5 players

1 of Correa/Lewis

Arreaz

Buxton

Duran (as SP)  - I think they stretch him out

Canterino (RP)   

 

1. I am definitely doing some projection here.  However here is my rational.  I think the Twins will try to resign Correa, if they don't Lewis is the clear heir for the position.  That position will be a key cog in our future success.  

2.  Arreaz has a bat that can play with any type of ball. I think his skills will continue to improve for the next year or two and will be this generations Tony Gwynn.  

3.  Buxton -  He needs to remain healthy but he is a game changer when he is healthy,  He is still too much boom and bust with the bat, but his defense is a major game changer for the team.  

4. Duran - as good as he has been as a reliever, if the org thinks he can be stretched out and be an elite SP I think they will.  He has the stuff to be the #1 pitcher we don't have. 

5. Canterino - This is the biggest projection here.  He has the best stuff of any pitcher in the minors, but he continues to be one that struggles with health and any extended innings.  I think he will settle into a relief role and be a key COG down the future as primary fireman/closer.   

 

[Mark G]

37 minutes ago, cHawk said:

Now why would the Twins trade Buxton when he’s their best player?

They wouldn't if he was their best player.  That is the debate, isn't it?  Some say yea, some say nay.  Personally, I think the jury is still out until he stays on the field long enough to earn that honor.  Kind of like Lewis; he has the potential to be the best player on the team for a decade, but he can't stay on the field.  There is being the best on paper, and there is being the best on the field, and you have to be on the field consistently to claim that status.  Si?  No?  

Personally, I don't want to trade Buck; the years of control and the potential each and every game he stays healthy is worth the risk financially to me.  So is the financial risk to signing Correa to the long term deal he is going to get somewhere.  But I also don't let myself get too hopeful about either scenario; Buck staying on the field long enough to carry the team to a title or Correa staying for the long haul.  In the meantime, I want Arraez, Kirilloff, Miranda, and some of the other young guys to step up and take this team forward.  Right now, they lead my top 4.  If only they had set positions going forward.  

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, mikelink45 said:

Or the Mathews, Spahn, Aaron, Adcock braves.

Mays, McCovey, Marichal, Perry.   1962-1971.  Pretty good core to base an extended run upon.  We will struggle to find a core this good.

[mikelink45]

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

Mays, McCovey, Marichal, Perry.   1962-1971.  Pretty good core to base an extended run upon.  We will struggle to find a core this good.

As much as I hate to do it - Yankees - Mantle, Maris, Berra, Ford or stretching it out - Gehrig, Ruth, Hoyt, Lazzeri, Coombs, Pennock

[Mike Sixel]

12 hours ago, JustinTyner said:

• Buxton

• Kirilloff

• Lewis

• Arraez

• Duran

barring any moves at the deadline. 

Ryan, Winder, Miranda, and Larnach all nice supporting pieces contributing now.

Pretty solid group, especially when you consider this upcoming crop of pitching in Canterino, Povich, Festa, SWR, Hajjar, Varland, Adams, Raya, Laweryson, Paredes, Headrick, Gipson - Long, Balazovic

Youll hit on a few of those guys. I like the shape we are in for the next 4-6 years.

You consider a number 2/3 starting pitcher a supporting piece? Tough grader.

Ryan is absolutely as likely to be important to the future of this team as Kiriloff or Lewis, and certainly Duran.

[Schmoeman5]

When I put Arreaz in the core 4 I'm not saying he's #1 on the list. I'm putting him in the leadoff spot and going down the lineup from there. He's 25. Buxton does need to be more consistent no doubt. Because even though he's got 22 homers, if you look at it after that dare I say his numbers are Sano like. But then you have to factor in that he's the best CF in baseball. So he still belongs. After that if Correa is here. No brainer. Then it would be nice if Ryan and Winder could develop into a nice 1 2 punch. Duran out of the pen. After that it's hopeful the Lewis Larnach Kirilloff Miranda Kepler Polanco etc can continue to grow and improve. I like where the Twins are. They just need another 2 or 3 guys out of the pen they can DEPEND on consistently.

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

You consider a number 2/3 starting pitcher a supporting piece? Tough grader.

Ryan is absolutely as likely to be important to the future of this team as Kiriloff or Lewis, and certainly Duran.

This is all a matter of opinion, but I sway your way.  I believe there are going to be two or three SPs that are #2/3 types that will be important for the next few years.  Ryan and Winder look like they could be really important pieces and there are a few other guys who could be similar.  Then, we have Jax and Alcala who have a chance to be the type of guys that are not spectacular but very effective and therefore important.   I guess it's a matter of if we define core players as the stars of the team or players who are around for several years and perform consistently.

I am hoping they use the opportunity provided by all the young talent to add a core SP via free agency.  So, I am going to throw in a future core player in the form of Joe Musgrove or Carlos Rodon.   Yes, I know they have been reluctant to give out long contracts to SPs but they have never been in this position financially.  The only other place they need to spend is the BP.  So, let a guy dream.

[JustinTyner]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

You consider a number 2/3 starting pitcher a supporting piece? Tough grader.

Ryan is absolutely as likely to be important to the future of this team as Kiriloff or Lewis, and certainly Duran.

I picked what I believe to be the 4/5 most important pieces of our “core” for the next 4-6 years.

Not a knock on Ryan or Winder, great players who look like they’ll be staples for years to come. 

[Aichiman]

9 hours ago, cHawk said:

Now why would the Twins trade Buxton when he’s their best player?

Our "best player" is now hitting 215.

[Aichiman]

12 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Byron Buxton has a full no trade clause until 2027.

I didn't know that.  That's unfortunate.

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Aichiman said:

I didn't know that.  That's unfortunate.

Why? How would they spend his $15M a year better?

[Aichiman]

51 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Why? How would they spend his $15M a year better?

Let me count the ways. 

1. Pitching
2. Pitching
3. Pitching
4. Catching
5. A New Manager
6. Replace the dynamic duo with an experienced, steady uno.
7. Lower Ticket Prices
8. Lower concession stand prices
9. Focus on baseball; get rid of the PR department.
10. And, uh, did i mention pitching?

 

[cHawk]

7 minutes ago, Aichiman said:

Let me count the ways. 

1. Pitching
2. Pitching
3. Pitching
4. Catching
5. A New Manager
6. Replace the dynamic duo with an experienced, steady uno.
7. Lower Ticket Prices
8. Lower concession stand prices
9. Focus on baseball; get rid of the PR department.
10. And, uh, did i mention pitching?

Buxton playing for $15M/year is a steal, more valuable for the success of the Twins than any of the things you listed.

[SanoMustGo]

Kiriloff and Duran, MAYBE Ryan....this is no one else worthy of discussion.  Buxton is not unless he can stay healthy.  Buxton is not a steal unless he can prove he can stay healthy.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, Aichiman said:

Let me count the ways. 

1. Pitching
2. Pitching
3. Pitching
4. Catching
5. A New Manager
6. Replace the dynamic duo with an experienced, steady uno.
7. Lower Ticket Prices
8. Lower concession stand prices
9. Focus on baseball; get rid of the PR department.
10. And, uh, did i mention pitching?

 

Stick to the topic, please.