Twins 6, Guardians 0: Twins Take Game 2 Behind Steady Offense, Excellent Winder

[Alex Schieferdecker]

I can't quite tell what Winder is doing to keep hitters from getting hard contact while not getting Ks. I feel like with his stuff he should be closer to 9 K/9. But I'm also not going to complain about a starting pitcher with a 3 ERA. He seems to pitch even better when he's starting the game as well, hopefully he will be a full-time member of the rotation next year.

[KirbyDome89]

2 hours ago, Squirrel said:

I agree. But if they aren’t going full Happ/Shoemaker, wouldn’t that mean we are getting production in the 4-5 position? If Bundy and Archer can continue on their good paths, I guess I’m not moving them. 

Do they need to implode and be amongst the worst pitchers in the league, a la Happ and Shoemaker, for the Twins to move them though? I think Winder gives MN a better shot than Bundy to every fifth day, despite Dylan's last two outings. Almost of equal importance, it gives the Twins an actual look at a starting prospect this year. Obviously they still have half a season, and injuries/ineffectiveness blah blah blah are all in play too. 

[jmlease1]

5 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Now to nitpicking. We still need to clean up our mental errors. Jeffers showboating out of the box instead of running hard led to him getting thrown out at second. Then on the next pitch, Miranda  gets picked off third on a failed Celestino safety squeeze. Instead of 2nd and 3rd with no outs, we had nobody on and two outs. Luckily, these mental lapses didn’t come back to haunt us as similar ones have in the past.

If we truly want to contend, we will need to be mentally tougher.

Great win though after a disappointing morning. 

That was a really rough sequence. I'm not sure I'd say jeffers was showboating exactly, but it was a mistake to watch the ball for a bit before trying to get on his horse and he paid for it. Miranda's brain lock was pretty tough as well. We're not a strong baserunning team overall (despite Buxton and his insane speed) we have some guys that consistently make good choices on the basepaths (Kepler, Arraez, & Correa generally seem to do well in their decision-making) but definitely some poor ones. And Tommy Watkins has had several memorable "wtf, dude!" moments too. Hopefully they can clean it up.

The pitching was good, Winder looked pretty good out there. Duffey did well enough I thought he was going to get another inning. Moran is a pitcher I really like, but he's always going to be a little wild, so come prepared with a mantra to meditate on or else he will seriously disturb your calm at times. Other times he's going to look unhittable. Possibly in the same AB.

The evening game reveals the fallacy of the closer in baseball, though: Pagan got the 8th in the early game so Duran could pitch the 9th...and then there wasn't a 9th. In the evening game, we're up 6-0 in the 9th, so no need to "waste" your closer. So now your best, most dangerous reliever hasn't pitched in a few days...and you could have used him. (This is a slight knock on Rocco, but it's also common among most teams and managers where they land in this trap)

I like the offense heating up, just wish they'd distribute the runs a little more evenly, because when we score at least 4 runs we're a damn good team.

[Squirrel]

57 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Do they need to implode and be amongst the worst pitchers in the league, a la Happ and Shoemaker, for the Twins to move them though? I think Winder gives MN a better shot than Bundy to every fifth day, despite Dylan's last two outings. Almost of equal importance, it gives the Twins an actual look at a starting prospect this year. Obviously they still have half a season, and injuries/ineffectiveness blah blah blah are all in play too. 

I was more referring to the starts lately that Bundy has given us and Archer has been strong in his outings over all ... that is great production from the 4-5-6 starters on any team that isn't the Yankees or Dodgers. Of course, if they can't hold it together, of course, decisions need to be made, but if they are doing well, I don't know if I'd move them. What @chpettit19 suggested, stacking Archer and Bundy might be an option. We'll have to let it go another month, I think, and make whatever moves need to be by then at the latest, and before if the situation calls for it.

[KirbyDome89]

26 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I was more referring to the starts lately that Bundy has given us and Archer has been strong in his outings over all ... that is great production from the 4-5-6 starters on any team that isn't the Yankees or Dodgers. Of course, if they can't hold it together, of course, decisions need to be made, but if they are doing well, I don't know if I'd move them. What @chpettit19 suggested, stacking Archer and Bundy might be an option. We'll have to let it go another month, I think, and make whatever moves need to be by then at the latest, and before if the situation calls for it.

Sure, if this is the real Bundy then he stays, but I kinda doubt that. I don't even mind if they ride him a bit while he's not terrible but I'd like to see Winder take his spot sooner rather than later. On IP alone, Winder being able to go 5-6 is more valuable than Archer with the disaster that is this bullpen. If they want to stack Bundy & Archer and readdress the logjam whenever Ober shows up I'm all for that too. 

[stringer bell]

5 hours ago, roger said:

 

Will second the above comment about the mistakes by Jeffers and Miranda that cost us an important run(s) early in the game.  Miranda's was a mental error that he should learn from and get beyond with experience.  Jeffers was just flat out disappointing as I watched him walking out of the box watching his long ball...then getting thrown out at second.  Don't know the correct adjective, but this kid needs to get his butt in gear and play hard as his performance isn't guaranteeing him anything for the future.

I confess to being a Jeffers fan, so take this with that bias. I want to cut him some slack on that play. I don't think he actually was sure where the ball went when he hit it and then probably thought it would go foul. I haven't seen Jeffers doing much half-hearted in his time with the Twins. As far as him getting thrown out at second, the ball bounced into two gloves perfectly for him to be out on a bang-bang play. 

[stringer bell]

56 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Sure, if this is the real Bundy then he stays, but I kinda doubt that. I don't even mind if they ride him a bit while he's not terrible but I'd like to see Winder take his spot sooner rather than later. On IP alone, Winder being able to go 5-6 is more valuable than Archer with the disaster that is this bullpen. If they want to stack Bundy & Archer and readdress the logjam whenever Ober shows up I'm all for that too. 

I'm sure the injury bug will hit and one or more of the current starters will be sidelined at some point. That said, with a few notable exceptions, the starters have really done a good job keeping the team in games. There is enough big league talent that I don't see Sands or another Chi Chi type getting any starts. I'm certain I've just jinxed the rotation and somebody on the St. Paul roster (other than Winder) will start a key game against the Guardians or White Sox.

[Nashvilletwin]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

I confess to being a Jeffers fan, so take this with that bias. I want to cut him some slack on that play. I don't think he actually was sure where the ball went when he hit it and then probably thought it would go foul. I haven't seen Jeffers doing much half-hearted in his time with the Twins. As far as him getting thrown out at second, the ball bounced into two gloves perfectly for him to be out on a bang-bang play. 

I used “showboating” which might be a bit harsh, although he certainly was “admiring” his hit. Regardless of whether he thought it was a dinger, a foul, or two perfect throws nabbed him, you run hard out of the box. We’ve all been taught that since tee ball and your team is playing your top nemesis in a close divisional race for goodness sake.

Hey, but no harm no foul. I like the kid and hopefully he was reminded of a good lesson. So go get ‘em today Jeffers! 

[stringer bell]

There’s an epidemic of not running hard out of the box and it’s not just the Twins. In fact there are very few like Kirby who busted it out of the box every time. 

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

I'm sure the injury bug will hit and one or more of the current starters will be sidelined at some point. That said, with a few notable exceptions, the starters have really done a good job keeping the team in games. There is enough big league talent that I don't see Sands or another Chi Chi type getting any starts. I'm certain I've just jinxed the rotation and somebody on the St. Paul roster (other than Winder) will start a key game against the Guardians or White Sox.

Fingers crossed

[dex8425]

2 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Sure, if this is the real Bundy then he stays, but I kinda doubt that. I don't even mind if they ride him a bit while he's not terrible but I'd like to see Winder take his spot sooner rather than later. On IP alone, Winder being able to go 5-6 is more valuable than Archer with the disaster that is this bullpen. If they want to stack Bundy & Archer and readdress the logjam whenever Ober shows up I'm all for that too. 

Eh, Bundy is:

1. leading the team in innings

2. better than his numbers indicate because his underlying stats (FIP, xERA, and xFIP) are all lower than his ERA. His xERA is a full run lower than his actual ERA. He doesn't walk guys, and he doesn't really nibble. He just gives up soft contact.

3. 4-4, which is pretty dang good for someone the Twins expected to be the 5th starter.

 

To be honest, Bundy's been a lot better than I expected. Other than his starts right before covid and right after covid, he's been solid. 

[KirbyDome89]

18 hours ago, dex8425 said:

Eh, Bundy is:

1. leading the team in innings

2. better than his numbers indicate because his underlying stats (FIP, xERA, and xFIP) are all lower than his ERA. His xERA is a full run lower than his actual ERA. He doesn't walk guys, and he doesn't really nibble. He just gives up soft contact.

3. 4-4, which is pretty dang good for someone the Twins expected to be the 5th starter.

 

To be honest, Bundy's been a lot better than I expected. Other than his starts right before covid and right after covid, he's been solid. 

FIP and xFIP say he's pretty much where he should be. The total body is probably what you'd expect from a 5th starter, but that's a bar I think we all hoped one of the young starters would clear. I think Winder is at that point.