Game Thread x2: Twins @ Guardians, Noon:10 and 6:10 CT

[James]

1 minute ago, SwainZag said:

At least be reasonable.  No one is making trades right now.  It's not even July 1st yet.

How dare you point out facts like the date!

I'm kind of glad work got in the way of the end of that game.

[Craig Arko]

43 minutes ago, mrtwinsfan said:

Which team looks like a winner ?????    

My honest assessment is: they look pretty evenly matched, only one will make it to the playoffs, and whichever one that is will be a heavy underdog against the likes of New York or Houston. And both teams know this.

[KirbyDome89]

8 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

That really is my point here. I wouldn't have been pissed if he used Duran for 2 innings, but it's a 162 game season and it'd be worse if Rocco managed every game like it was a playoff game and paid no attention to upcoming games. That'd be bad managing. They need help in the pen. I hope Alcala can be part of that solution. I hope they bring in another guy or 2 via trade. And I hope Maeda is back in September to reinforce things more. It just gets old seeing these game threads turn into "Rocco screwed up again" fests everyday no matter whether they're winning or not because he has to put in so many questionable relievers.

I hope Alcala and in particular Maeda are bonuses and not Plan A. 

[chpettit19]

5 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Ok. And I think my reasoning here is pretty solid and not hypocritical.

You and I had a back and forth just a couple weeks ago about using Duran in innings other than the 9th. You were adamant that they shouldn't do it. You admitted that in this thread as well that you want Duran used only as a closer. You then complained that Rocco should have used Duran as something other than just a strict closer today. 

I think you have many good thoughts. I don't agree with them all, but it's just a matter of opinion on different baseball strategies. Like whether or not teams should have strict 7th, 8th, and 9th inning guys. Reasonable takes on both of our sides there. But the "use Duran as only a closer" followed by "bring Duran in in the 8th!" is going to get a call out every time I see it.

[SwainZag]

1 minute ago, James said:

How dare you point out facts like the date!

I'm kind of glad work got in the way of the end of that game.

I mean...I will be right there with my pitchfork if guys are flying around the league and it's July 30th and the Twins haven't acquired anyone yet.  But it's a little early for that 

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I hope Alcala and in particular Maeda are bonuses and not Plan A. 

Alcala should be back very soon so they should have an idea of whether or not he's the guy he was at the end of last year. Definitely don't want Maeda as plan A, but do have hope that he can provide some more reinforcement late. They need to bring in outside guys for sure. I'd like 2, but if Alcala is back in 2 weeks and throwing lights out I'd be ok with just 1. Duran, Jax, and Alcala have the chance to form a very nice back end to the bullpen for years to come, but I definitely want more brought in for this season. I'd like 1 righty and 1 lefty ideally.

[Danchat]

3 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

I mean...I will be right there with my pitchfork if guys are flying around the league and it's July 30th and the Twins haven't acquired anyone yet.  But it's a little early for that 

BTW, the deadline is on August 2nd this year.

[Aggies7]

7 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

You and I had a back and forth just a couple weeks ago about using Duran in innings other than the 9th. You were adamant that they shouldn't do it. You admitted that in this thread as well that you want Duran used only as a closer. You then complained that Rocco should have used Duran as something other than just a strict closer today. 

I think you have many good thoughts. I don't agree with them all, but it's just a matter of opinion on different baseball strategies. Like whether or not teams should have strict 7th, 8th, and 9th inning guys. Reasonable takes on both of our sides there. But the "use Duran as only a closer" followed by "bring Duran in in the 8th!" is going to get a call out every time I see it.

I think you are misremembering the argument. The issue is question was using him in the 6th and 7th against the tigers (a game pagan also blew).  I don’t recall ever saying that he should NOT be used in the 8th inning ever. I literally do not recall ever saying that. Certainly I agree that it’s not a viable long term strategy to keep asking so much from a guy with inning concerns. I am definitely adamant that he should be THE closer (and not burned in the 6th/7th innings) and unfortunately on this team that means pitching more than one inning per outing.

I have also been strongly adamant that pagan should not pitch late in games if at all possible. The earlier the better so that when he inevitably fails to do his job, we have more than an at bat or two to recover.

[chpettit19]

Polanco starting game 2. Makes me dislike Garlick starting game 1 even more.

[Brock Beauchamp]

52 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I don't like Pagan either, but the answer isn't "just throw Duran every late inning of every close game." You want Duran as the closer so you have to deal with lesser pitchers who shouldn't be pitching late game, high leverage innings. That's how it works.

The problem is that Baldelli has one great reliever and one good reliever.

When the typical starter goes five innings and a good outing is six innings. simple math tells me that's a real ****ing problem and it's not Rocco's fault.

[h2oface]

37 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

And if Rocco uses Duran for 2 innings this game and then loses tonight and tomorrow in close games he's not available for you're back on here complaining that he didn't have Duran to use.

Minority Report guilty before one acts, eh? At least give him a chance to commit your assigned crime.

[SwainZag]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

Polanco starting game 2. Makes me dislike Garlick starting game 1 even more.

I'm more with you now since him being active for Game 1 had to be an option.  I'll assume Contreras going down?

[LA VIkes Fan]

The problem is if not Pagan, then who? It was supposed to be Duffy or Alcala but Duffy melted down and Alcala got hurt. I wonder if Tyler Thornburg can fill that role? Cotton, Thielbar, probably not on a consistent basis. We need an 8th inning guy in the worst way. 

[ashbury]

I notice that Myles Straw was batting 9th for the Guardians today, and scored during their winning rally.  Does that mean, in two ways, that the Twins found him to be the final Straw?

[h2oface]

1 minute ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

The problem is that Baldelli has one great reliever and one good reliever.

When the typical starter goes five innings and a good outing is six innings. simple math tells me that's a real ****ing problem and it's not Rocco's fault.

Well..... he could actually stop going to Pagan in the late innings. You know, at least try something different!

[wsnydes]

Game 2 lineups have been posted.

Twins

CF - Buxton

SS - Correa

RF - Garlick

DH - Arraez

2B - Polanco

3B - Urshela

1B - Miranda

C - Jeffers

LF - Celestino

On the bump is Josh Winder.

 

Guardians

CF - Kwan

SS - Rosario

DH - Ramirez

1B - Naylor

2B - Gimenez

RF - Gonzalez

LF - Palacios

3B - Clement

C - Maile

On the bump is Konnor Pilkington

 

Let's hope for a better result in the nightcap!

[Aggies7]

2 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

The problem is if not Pagan, then who? It was supposed to be Duffy or Alcala but Duffy melted down and Alcala got hurt. We need an 8th inning guy in the worst way. 

Today? Could have been jax for another inning (although he had 21 pitches) or even thielbar who I trust more than pagan (which doesn’t say much). Or as mentioned, 2 for duran.

[wsnydes]

3 minutes ago, ashbury said:

I notice that Myles Straw was batting 9th for the Guardians today, and scored during their winning rally.  Does that mean he was, in two ways, the final Straw for the Twins?

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

I'm more with you now since him being active for Game 1 had to be an option.  I'll assume Contreras going down?

Correct, Contreras sent down.

[h2oface]

2 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

The problem is if not Pagan, then who? It was supposed to be Duffy or Alcala but Duffy melted down and Alcala got hurt. I wonder if Tyler Thornburg can fill that role? Cotton, Thielbar, probably not on a consistent basis. We need an 8th inning guy in the worst way. 

YES! At this point, and even today, at least try Thornburg, and NOT Pagan!

[Brock Beauchamp]

Just now, h2oface said:

Well..... he could actually stop going to Pagan in the late innings. You know, at least try something different!

Who, though? The front office is rotating through guys who are mediocre on their best days. While I wouldn't have put Pagan in today, he's just as likely to get through an inning as "fill in blank of random name here".

The front office either needs to overpay or they need to take a chance on catching lightning in a bottle with an upside arm from the minors. Even though he walks way too many hitters, I'd rather see Evan Sisk on the mound right now over Emilio Pagan.

I'm not even sure Pagan would be the guy I cut today but that doesn't matter, either. There are several guys I wouldn't hesitate to let go of in hopes of catching upside in a MiLB guy long enough to limp toward the trade deadline.

[h2oface]

3 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Who, though? The front office is rotating through guys who are mediocre on their best days. While I wouldn't have put Pagan in today, he's just as likely to get through an inning as "fill in blank of random name here".

The front office either needs to overpay or they need to take a chance on catching lightning in a bottle with an upside arm from the minors. Even though he walks way too many hitters, I'd rather see Evan Sisk on the mound right now over Emilio Pagan.

I'm not even sure Pagan would be the guy I cut today but that doesn't matter, either. There are several guys I wouldn't hesitate to let go of in hopes of catching upside in a MiLB guy long enough to limp toward the trade deadline.

Thornburg. Agreed there is a huge problem. It has been that way all season and before it even started. It is like hearing little baby chicks....."cheap, cheap".

[sampleSizeOfOne]

38 minutes ago, ashbury said:

I notice that Myles Straw was batting 9th for the Guardians today, and scored during their winning rally.  Does that mean, in two ways, that the Twins found him to be the final Straw?

Yes.

 

You are correct, sir!

[Danchat]

40 minutes ago, h2oface said:

Thornburg. Agreed there is a huge problem. It has been that way all season and before it even started. It is like hearing little baby chicks....."cheap, cheap".

Thornburg's a guy who's mostly cooked, already got DFA'd once this year and hasn't been throwing in high leverage situations since 2016. I can't blame Rocco for not wanting to use him in a 1 run game - we saw what happened when we threw AAAA guys into high leverage situations last year - Brandon Waddell, Luke Farrell, Dobnak as a reliever? Yeah, I've seen enough of that.

[Irishman]

Another save blown again!    Too many save blown!

[h2oface]

53 minutes ago, Danchat said:

Thornburg's a guy who's mostly cooked, already got DFA'd once this year and hasn't been throwing in high leverage situations since 2016. I can't blame Rocco for not wanting to use him in a 1 run game - we saw what happened when we threw AAAA guys into high leverage situations last year - Brandon Waddell, Luke Farrell, Dobnak as a reliever? Yeah, I've seen enough of that.

Well, so far this year, so good. Only one bad outing in May, and out all 2017 and 2020 (started great) and 2021... and 2016 was very good. Granted 2018 and 19 were rough. I guess you got what you wanted. How was Alex Pagan...... this year and last? At least San Diego was smart enough to not let him save games! 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

Well...

At least we didn't lose 1-0.

[wsnydes]

3 minutes ago, sampleSizeOfOne said:

Well...

At least we didn't lose 1-0.

Yes, there is that!

[denarded]

Pagan, be gone (Hawk Harrelson voice) Dude does not have it. 

[RpR]

Why is Jeffers catching?  Sanchez threw a runner out, odds of Jeffers doing that half way between none and next to none.