What types of trades should Twins pursue?

[RpR]

1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

The season is only approaching the halfway point. A little health and consistency can cure the worries. The Twins were projected to win 80-86 games and if they win 88 they could be in the playoffs. Their team is pretty good and will be in it all year unless there are a series of tough injuries. The baseball season is full of ups and downs.

They are playing like they did last year, end of story probably.

They had injuries last year and the rookies were not good, deja vue.

[RickOShea]

The Twins need to move some of these 1-2 yr players for pitching needs.  Go with a set line-up.  We need a set line-up and some bullpen help rather than having a plethora of young and unexperienced players.  Lineup flexibility is not a requirement.  Solid pitching is.

[Major League Ready]

2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

The last two days has made this a much more tricky question. (and two games should never do that, but...) Maybe this team isn't as good as most of us hoped or thought and really is the team most people thought it was going to be coming into the season. (A rebuilding/get the prospects feet wet)

That kind of puts the FO in a pickle, because while the offensive prospects and Duran have gotten their feet wet and gained experience the vaunted pitching pipeline hasn't.  Ryan is Ryan (which is good) but I don't count him as part of the pipleline, sure Winder and Ober have gotten some innings and been decent to good but they have also been hurt it seems most of the year and that is the MO of this pitching pipeline.

So if the Twins continue to fall back in the standings and miss the playoffs has this FO done enough to keep their jobs and what is left of the good will from the fans if more pitching doesn't step up? (Larnach, Celestino, and Jeffers (and Lewis) are this FO guys, but AK and Miranda are not)

IMO the front office stays based on some of the pitching that still in the minors, but Rocco is gone and is the fall guy.

If you look back to the off-season, most of us did not expect them to contend and most of us agreed we should take this season to see if the pitching pipeline produced.  Actually, they not only have several pitchers that needed playing time at the ML level, they also had several position players. I think we can assume that ownership was on board with their plan to transition in all of these players with the obvious reality that they would not be true contenders this year.  Their intent was pretty clear.  Put a good product on the field while they transitioned in the players that would allow them to build a contender.  So, why would there need to be a fall guy.  

It's also waaaay too early to judge the season.  We still have half the season remaining.  If ownership were to look at this halfway through the season I would guess their take would be that we have already established Ryan / Ober / Duran / Jax with Winder and Smeltzer have both looked good in limited exposure.  They will get plenty of opportunity the 2nd half of the season.  So far the depth at the Milb level has looked great as well.

Then, if they look at the position players, Kirilloff / Larnach / Miranda and Celestino all looking like they will be solid contributors with Steer and Wallner looking like they will join this group.  Of course, many argued if only they had signed Robbie Ray or if not him at least some of the solid guys like Stroman / Rodriguez  or Gray.  Well they have all been pretty mediocre.  So, should ownership fire Falvey because he did not tie up long-term payroll in guys that are performing no better or worse than the prearb players that are getting playing time?

[RpR]

43 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Then, if they look at the position players, Kirilloff / Larnach / Miranda and Celestino all looking like they will be solid contributors

If they are blind in one eye and cannot see out of the other.

[TwinsDr2021]

2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

If you look back to the off-season, most of us did not expect them to contend and most of us agreed we should take this season to see if the pitching pipeline produced.  Actually, they not only have several pitchers that needed playing time at the ML level, they also had several position players. I think we can assume that ownership was on board with their plan to transition in all of these players with the obvious reality that they would not be true contenders this year.  Their intent was pretty clear.  Put a good product on the field while they transitioned in the players that would allow them to build a contender.  So, why would there need to be a fall guy.  

It's also waaaay too early to judge the season.  We still have half the season remaining.  If ownership were to look at this halfway through the season I would guess their take would be that we have already established Ryan / Ober / Duran / Jax with Winder and Smeltzer have both looked good in limited exposure.  They will get plenty of opportunity the 2nd half of the season.  So far the depth at the Milb level has looked great as well.

Then, if they look at the position players, Kirilloff / Larnach / Miranda and Celestino all looking like they will be solid contributors with Steer and Wallner looking like they will join this group.  Of course, many argued if only they had signed Robbie Ray or if not him at least some of the solid guys like Stroman / Rodriguez  or Gray.  Well they have all been pretty mediocre.  So, should ownership fire Falvey because he did not tie up long-term payroll in guys that are performing no better or worse than the prearb players that are getting playing time?

I think you missed this "So if the Twins continue to fall back in the standings and miss the playoffs has this FO done enough to keep their jobs and what is left of the good will from the fans if more pitching doesn't step up?"

[Major League Ready]

4 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I think you missed this "So if the Twins continue to fall back in the standings and miss the playoffs has this FO done enough to keep their jobs and what is left of the good will from the fans if more pitching doesn't step up?"

I don't know what Jim Pohlad will consider enough pitching and I don't think it's nearly that simple in his mind.  My guess is that he is going to look at how well the team is positioned overall.  In other words, how many pitching prospects are contributing at the MLB level and how much progress has been made throughout the Milb system.  How are Miranda / Kirilloff, Larnach, Celestino, Steer, Walner, etc looking at the end of the year.

There is a lot of season left but I could see a realistic scenario of this team being extremely well positioned for a several year run.  Two of Kirilloff / Miranda / Larnach becoming well above average middle of the order bats is quite realistic.  If Winder and Smeltzer continue to look good they have Gray / Ryan / Winder / Ober / Smeltzer with Maeda also in the mix at the start of 2023 and Paddack / Dobnak coming back at some point as well.

Here is the part many overlook ... The only big contract is Buxton assuming Correa opts out which is nearly certain.  They will be under $75M with most positions filled.  They will easily be able to land a difference maker and spend on the BP.  Kirilloff / Miranda / Larnach / Celestino / Duran / Ryan / Winder / Smeltzer and Jax will all have gained valuable experience.  Fans can call for heads all they like, if several of these young players look poised to contribute for the next several years, this team is going to be very well positioned for a run.  Jim Pohlad is not going to fire the people that put the team in that psoition.

[TwinsDr2021]

8 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

I don't know what Jim Pohlad will consider enough pitching and I don't think it's nearly that simple in his mind.  My guess is that he is going to look at how well the team is positioned overall.  In other words, how many pitching prospects are contributing at the MLB level and how much progress has been made throughout the Milb system.  How are Miranda / Kirilloff, Larnach, Celestino, Steer, Walner, etc looking at the end of the year.

There is a lot of season left but I could see a realistic scenario of this team being extremely well positioned for a several year run.  Two of Kirilloff / Miranda / Larnach becoming well above average middle of the order bats is quite realistic.  If Winder and Smeltzer continue to look good they have Gray / Ryan / Winder / Ober / Smeltzer with Maeda also in the mix at the start of 2023 and Paddack / Dobnak coming back at some point as well.

Here is the part many overlook ... The only big contract is Buxton assuming Correa opts out which is nearly certain.  They will be under $75M with most positions filled.  They will easily be able to land a difference maker and spend on the BP.  Kirilloff / Miranda / Larnach / Celestino / Duran / Ryan / Winder / Smeltzer and Jax will all have gained valuable experience.  Fans can call for heads all they like, if several of these young players look poised to contribute for the next several years, this team is going to be very well positioned for a run.  Jim Pohlad is not going to fire the people that put the team in that psoition.

I agree with what you are saying, but...

Yes, there is a ton of season left and I hope everybody steps up, but if the season ends as it is today (Out of the playoffs) and the offensive players not locking up their spot and the pitching continuing to get hurt and be sub par. Have they done enough is my question.

In this scenario they were in position last year and failed, went into this season with hope and didn't build on it because next season would be the same as this season. (Yes, 100% speculation)

 

[jccracraft]

While watching the game the other day, with Arraez playing 2B and Kirilloff at 1B, I floated out the idea to my 15 year son that we could consider trading Polanco. I like Kirilloff a lot, as well as Arraez obviously. My son thought it ridiculous, as he looked at it as if we would be getting rid of a long time very solid player for a player that has not really proved himself yet. I tried to explain that from a line-up/roster standpoint, we'd have a better team with both Arraez and Kirilloff playing, and we may be able to sell high on Polanco for much needed pitching. Am I right or my son?

[Old fox]

I think the Twins could trade either Balazovic or Canterino but not both and they could trade either Martin or Steer but not both. Wallner, Sabato, Sands, Strotman, to entice a trade. Trading partners consider Oakland, Cincinnati, Miami. Pittsburgh .
A trade is with Oakland or Cincinnati for either Montas or  Castillo & Twins trade either Balazovic or Canterino. 2nd trade with Miami for Cabrera or Lopez and reliever Bass and Twins trade Martin, & Celestine. 3rd  trade with Pittsburgh for Statton or Keller, Bednar closer with good stats, age 27 with 2 yrs control & Twins trade Wallner, Sabato, Sands & Strotman.    The price for these trades may seem high but these trades would make the Twins stronger and fill current weaknesses. The current promotion of prospects to the Twins roster and the younger prospects behind these trade able prospects.  I believe by adding such quality players helps to keep such quality players such as Correa. 

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I agree with what you are saying, but...

Yes, there is a ton of season left and I hope everybody steps up, but if the season ends as it is today (Out of the playoffs) and the offensive players not locking up their spot and the pitching continuing to get hurt and be sub par. Have they done enough is my question.

In this scenario they were in position last year and failed, went into this season with hope and didn't build on it because next season would be the same as this season. (Yes, 100% speculation)

 

If your boss gave you a year to do something, would you feel it a fair criticism if he criticized you for not being done after six months.  I appreciate your concern and I have similar concerns.  However, it would be a huge accomplishment to establish several new pitchers and position players in 1 year.  JHard as it might be, we need to allow this process to take place and then judge it at reasonable increments.  90 games into the 1st season of transitioning several players is not a reasonable increment.

The Lewis injury really hurt.  They had a good shot at replacing 3B, SS and 1B with high ceiling replacements in a single year.  Larnach was looking quite a bit better than I expected at in LF, and Celestino was playing great.  Ryan had been great and Winder looked quite impressive until he got hurt and even Devon Smeltzer had re-emerged.  Duran went from will he ever make it to the ML level to dominant out of the gate and Jax was much better in a BP role.  In the context of being 90 games into this "project", things are progressing well.  Obviously, they have a ways to go but the results so far should make us hopeful as opposed to doubtful because the whole teams has not transformed in 90 games.

[SanoMustGo]

I would get as much value from the vets as possible(including Correa).  Fill up the farm system, and start over.  Tired of seeing the same guys do the same thing over and over(Sano, Kepler, Buxton and his injuries, could care less about Urshela and Sanchez)  Be a seller and start over.  Last night was the last straw for me regarding this group of players.  Take Correa off this team and we are in the same boat as last season.  If I was Correa I would get out of here as fast as possible.  The sooner they fall out of contention the better.  And yes, I am a Twins fan, but I don't have to like this team.  Lucky win today.

 

[Old fox]

I understand what you are saying. The future and tomorrow never get here. There are always new needs & unforeseen needs, injuries that happen. The Twins aren’t that far away from post season play in 22. Do they need help in 22? Yes in the area of starting pitchers & relief pitchers. Since there may not be the super talent & super pricey pitchers. They are at least one year away from FA which will affect acquiring price. Extension costs of about $80-$120 for a term of between 4-5 years.. This ranges fit the Twins budget. I’m not real confident that Balazovic or Canterino will have skills comparable to trade candidates and the trade candidates aren’t old. Neither your ideology or my ideaology are wrong.