Winners or Losers: Minnesota’s Trade History with Tampa Bay

[Cody Christie]

Tampa Bay has an intelligent front office known for identifying players from other organizations that help them “win” almost every trade they complete. So, how have the Twins fared in trades with the Rays?

 

November 28, 2007
Tampa Bay Received: Matt Garza, Jason Bartlett, Eddie Morlan
Minnesota Received: Delmon Young, Brendan Harris, Jason Pridie
Minnesota’s first trade with Tampa Bay was its biggest as it included vital pieces from both teams’ rosters. The Twins acquired Delmon Young to be a right-handed bat to slide in between Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau. He never lived up to his potential as the number one overall pick, but he played parts of ten big-league seasons. Minnesota was his only stop where he posted an OPS+ over 100, and he finished in the top-10 for the AL MVP in 2010. Pridie only got six plate appearances with the Twins and never recorded a hit. Harris posted a .669 OPS in three years with the Twins before being packaged with JJ Hardy in the infamous trade for Brett Jacobson and Jim Hoey.

Tampa ended up getting the two best players in this trade. Matt Garza pitched over 1700 big-league innings and accumulated a 12.5 WAR. Garza won the 2008 ALCS MVP for Tampa, his first season with the club. Jason Bartlett played three seasons in Tampa, including his lone All-Star season, where he had a 132 OPS+ and a 6.2 WAR. Morlan topped out at Double-A, but it’s clear the Rays ended up with the better package of players. 
Winner: Tampa Bay

July 31, 2015
Tampa Bay Received: Alexis Tapia, Chih-Wei Hu
Minnesota Received: Kevin Jepsen
At the trade deadline, Minnesota found themselves in contention and wanted to add a late-inning bullpen arm. Kevin Jepsen posted a 1.61 ERA with a 0.89 WHIP in 29 appearances through the rest of the 2015 season. Unfortunately, Minnesota fell short of qualifying for the playoffs, but Jepsen couldn’t have pitched much better in his first season for the Twins. Alexis Tapia never made it out of High-A in the Rays system, while Chih-Wei Hu was limited to 11 big-league appearances. In his second season with the Twins, Jepsen pitched horribly, and the team released him on July 11, 2016. Even with this poor ending, Jepsen provided the 2015 Twins with solid innings for a contending team. 
Winner: Minnesota

June 24, 2016
Tampa Bay Received: Oswaldo Arcia
Minnesota Received: Cash Considerations
Oswaldo Arcia was supposed to be part of the first wave of prospects that helped turn things around for the Twins. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen, as he posted a .732 OPS in over 250 games for the club. In June 2016, the Twins sent Arcia to the Rays for cash considerations. He’d only play in 21 games for Tampa as he appeared in games for four different big-league clubs that season. Minnesota shed Arcia, and Tampa got a player that accumulated negative value while playing for them. 
Winner: Minnesota

February 17, 2018
Tampa Bay Received: Jermaine Palacios
Minnesota Received: Jake Odorizzi
This trade was a slam dunk win for the Twins. Jake Odorizzi pitched parts of three seasons in Minnesota with a 107 ERA+ and an All-Star appearance in 2019. Jermaine Palacios topped out at Double-A in the Rays organization before resigning with the Twins. His unique prospect journey has come full circle this year as he made his big-league debut for the Twins. 
Winner: Minnesota

July 22, 2021
Tampa Bay Received: Nelson Cruz, Calvin Faucher
Minnesota Received: Joe Ryan, Drew Strotman
Last summer’s blockbuster trade looks to be working out significantly in favor of the Twins. Nelson Cruz played 55 games for the Rays and posted a .725 OPS. Since rookie ball, Calvin Faucher has yet to post a sub-4.00 ERA at any level. Minnesota received six years of team control over Joe Ryan, an AL Rookie of the Year contender, and Drew Strotman, a solid organizational depth piece. Even if Ryan regresses, the Twins are still getting more value from him than what the Rays got from Cruz. 
Winner: Minnesota

Do you agree with the winners named above? Leave a COMMENT and start the discussion. 

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[Dman]

I wouldn't argue with the winners above but all trades need a fair bit of context.  The Rays were looking to dump Odorizzi's salary and not many teams really seemed to want him. Palacios was a decent prospect at the time but giving up one maybe top 20 player was always going to be a good deal for the Twins who desperately needed pitching.  Still it was a salary dump for Tampa so they weren't looking for equal value just some value and getting rid of Odorizzi.  They were fine letting the Twins win that trade.

The deadline deal for Ryan was a fairly large overpay for Tampa but most analysts felt Ryan was destined for the pen so two guys most likely destined to be relievers for a slugger that could have a David Ortiz type impact seemed decent on paper.  It didn't work out that way but hindsight is 20/20.

I never liked the Garza trade but the Twins were desperate for a right handed power hitter and they thought they had excess pitching.  In hindsight that didn't work out well for the Twins.  

Trades are gambles.  Sometimes they work out sometimes they don't.  You just hope they help more often than hurt.

[PopRiveter]

I still think with proper management and usage, Oswaldo Arcia could have been a real force in this league. I can't call it a win to give up that talent for cash considerations. He was raw and never put it together, but I am still convinced there was so much more juice there to squeeze if they only knew how. 

[Trov]

21 minutes ago, Dman said:

I wouldn't argue with the winners above but all trades need a fair bit of context.  The Rays were looking to dump Odorizzi's salary and not many teams really seemed to want him. Palacios was a decent prospect at the time but giving up one maybe top 20 player was always going to be a good deal for the Twins who desperately needed pitching.  Still it was a salary dump for Tampa so they weren't looking for equal value just some value and getting rid of Odorizzi.  They were fine letting the Twins win that trade.

The deadline deal for Ryan was a fairly large overpay for Tampa but most analysts felt Ryan was destined for the pen so two guys most likely destined to be relievers for a slugger that could have a David Ortiz type impact seemed decent on paper.  It didn't work out that way but hindsight is 20/20.

I never liked the Garza trade but the Twins were desperate for a right handed power hitter and they thought they had excess pitching.  In hindsight that didn't work out well for the Twins.  

Trades are gambles.  Sometimes they work out sometimes they don't.  You just hope they help more often than hurt.

Overall I would agree with this.  The Odo trade they were dealing from depth and need to cut money.  I would disagree with the Ryan for Cruz trade.  If Rays did have him slotted as a pen arm, that is on them for not seeing what he could be.  Sure he may not stay at level he has been, but I have not seen any signs of regression overall.  They may have needed a bat, but they could have found one somewhere for much less than what they gave up.  It shows at worst that they just were wrong on Ryan, which it happens because they stole Anderson from us for nothing, but maybe that will not turn out as he really only had 1 decent year, and been injured all last year and this year.

The Garza deal we got fleeced, but that is more on us.  Pretty sure Garza did not like it here and we decided to try and get a bat for him.  We were thinking on old ways of baseball at that time, not thinking bat first corner OF guys are easy to find.  We were hoping Young would be more than he was, which was not terrible but pitching is king and bat first corner OF guys, unless they are HOF bound, are easy to find. 

[Dman]

5 minutes ago, Trov said:

Overall I would agree with this.  The Odo trade they were dealing from depth and need to cut money.  I would disagree with the Ryan for Cruz trade.  If Rays did have him slotted as a pen arm, that is on them for not seeing what he could be.  Sure he may not stay at level he has been, but I have not seen any signs of regression overall.  They may have needed a bat, but they could have found one somewhere for much less than what they gave up.  It shows at worst that they just were wrong on Ryan, which it happens because they stole Anderson from us for nothing, but maybe that will not turn out as he really only had 1 decent year, and been injured all last year and this year.

The Garza deal we got fleeced, but that is more on us.  Pretty sure Garza did not like it here and we decided to try and get a bat for him.  We were thinking on old ways of baseball at that time, not thinking bat first corner OF guys are easy to find.  We were hoping Young would be more than he was, which was not terrible but pitching is king and bat first corner OF guys, unless they are HOF bound, are easy to find. 

It wasn't just Tampa's take on Ryan though as most of the industry thought Ryan's fastball heavy approach was going to lead to too many home runs. It seemed unlikely to translate well to MLB players who feast on fastballs. A lot of scouts didn't know how he would turn out and gave him 5th starter as his ceiling. His approach was too unusual for anyone to know until he was at the MLB level.  His secondary's were better than advertised though and I think that has made a difference.  The Rays wanted Cruz early so they upped the ante with Ryan but he was no sure thing at the time IIMO

[twinstalker]

Well, you're looking at some of this from really only Minnesota's POV and not thoroughly at that.  Odorizzi was a decent pitcher for the Twins, but what could they have done with the money saved?  Likewise, TB knows exactly what it wants to do with its $$$.  My guess is that while they struck out on Palacios, they were probably better for not having Odorizzi.  Plus, if they could have gotten someone better than Palacios (at the time) they would have.  Twins would maybe have "won" this if they hadn't given Odo $18 million, but only because the original dollars on Odo's contract would have probably not gone to good use.

Cruz for Ryan?  That was, to the Twins, nothing for Ryan.  You can't really mess this up at this point.

I was upset at the package we gave for Jepsen.

I'm still ranting about Garza/Bartlett for Delmon.  One of worst, least-researched trades ever.

[KirbyDome89]

I was an Arcia truther; weird times. I still wouldn't count cash considerations as a W for the Twins. Ever. 

Jepsen was so bad during that TSF season that I almost think his negative contributions outweigh the positive, but it's not a hill to die on. 

 

[Old fox]

A trade is a trade. No use to cry over spilled cream. It’s time to get over these trades as a lot time has past. fO Management teams have changed out. The $18m paid to Idorizzo has nothing to do with the trade.  

[Drew]

4 minutes ago, Old fox said:

A trade is a trade. No use to cry over spilled cream. It’s time to get over these trades as a lot time has past. fO Management teams have changed out. The $18m paid to Idorizzo has nothing to do with the trade.  

Exactly, I always say anything that happened before tomorrow is pointless. I say, we must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!

[Doctor Gast]

We can learn a lot from history. Aside from that, recently TB is known for pitching development and we have done well from obtaining their pitchers. On the other hand we are more known for our hitters yet our hitters haven't fared well there. Palacio was a good hitter w/ us but he moved next door to TB (same league) but couldn't hit a lick. Cruz flourished with us but could do much for TB.

I'm willing to do any trade with TB if it's not a headline pitcher.

[ashbury]

Fair analysis on all the trades, IMO.

I hadn't thought about Chih-Wei Hu in a very long while.  I believed he had real potential.  As he rose to the high minors with Tampa he washed out as a starter candidate, but as I look at his record he seemed to be effective in a relief role.  Tampa gave up on him and the teams he was with next never had success with him, and I really wonder why.

[rwilfong86]

I think the Ryan/Cruz deal may be one of the most lopsided deals in team history if Ryan becomes the player we think and hope he will. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I remember last summer saying that I wanted to see Calvin Faucher promoted to MLB, give some unheralded guys like Faucher a look for 2022, since the bullpen was so bad last year and I figured they would move on from a bunch of guys.

As it turns out, Tampa Bay got Faucher in the Cruz deal and now he is on the 26-man roster tonight for the Rays! Not saying this guy is going to light the world on fire, but still, nice to know I wasn't completely insane at the time. 

[Rosterman]

Delmon Young was NOT horrible. The Twins ahd three decent seasons from him, alkthough he seemed to have an ego, or was a headcase. He wanted to be recognized as being the superstar.

After the 2010 season, the Twins needed to trade him, when he ahd significant worth.

And partly, to escape paying him more than perceioved worth in 2011 and beyond, they flipped him to the Tgers for Cole Nelson and Lester Oliveros (a 100mph thrower who is still pitching).

I always got the impression that he wouldn't listen at all to coaches, and was jealous that he wasn't the face of the Twins..... Carlos Gomez got so much press right away. Then he fell into a funk. And, he was only 25 when the Twins traded him.

Matt Garza had an ego and he spent time with four other organizations in the next 7 years.

Odorizzi was okay for the Twins, catching a break in the shortened COVID season so they didn't have to pay him the full $18 million.

How the Twins got Ryan and Strotman...both needed to stay on the Rays roster, but others were on the verge of pushing them off and a hard decision needed to be made about keeping them of taking them off, thus tradebait. The Rays had too many riches in the pitching department.

[Shaitan]

While I think this kind of article and "trade chains" are fun, the fact of the matter is that trades are supposed to benefit both sides. They aren't intended to be competitive and "won."

I'm also surprised the Young/Garza trade was the first trade together in the two franchises' histories.