Is It Time to Move on From Tyler Duffey?

[The Mad King]

Somebody has to be desperate enough to give us a few bags of balls for him. 

[Montdak]

When he comes in with these big leads what does he always do.  Starts  cautiously nibbling like he’s pitching to Murderers Row in a tight game no matter who he’s pitching to and then walks guys.  Just throw strikes at least till they get themselves on base once or twice.  Odds are they’ll get themselves out.

[TeJayDubz]

49 minutes ago, Montdak said:

When he comes in with these big leads what does he always do.  Starts  cautiously nibbling like he’s pitching to Murderers Row in a tight game no matter who he’s pitching to and then walks guys.  Just throw strikes at least till they get themselves on base once or twice.  Odds are they’ll get themselves out.

In the OP his location charts proved that he's not nibbling at all actually. He's leaving hittable pitches over the heart of the plate, and will diminished velocity at that. I'm on the DFA bandwagon I like too many of our depth pieces to keep watching him almost blow 5-run leads in the 9th.

[Fred]

Is this Jeopardy? Why was the title in the form of a question?

[DocBauer]

Why is Duffey getting such a long leash? Because he was great in 2019 and 2020. Because after a rough start in 2021 he adjusted, rebounded, and actually finished strong despite a drop in velocity and K rate. What's surprising to me is his sudden uptick in velocity, back up to 93-95 consistently,  which he didn't have last season. But with little exception, he's not fooling anyone right now, for whatever reason. I do not believe he's around due to $. That money is spent. There is a hope and a prayer that his regained velocity and some adjustments will make his FB and curveball efficient again.  But right now, I just don't see it. I'm seeing the emergence of Duran and Jax from the right side. I'm seeing Cotton, SSS, look like the re-built model of himself that pitched so well in milb 2021 and flashed a bit with the Rangers. I'm seeing reports of Alcala being healthy and throwing hard and just needing time to get ready.

I appreciate everything Duffey has done for the Twins. I appreciate and understand them giving him another chance because we know that sometimes these things work out and a guy just gets right. But with no obligation beyond this year, money already spent, I feel better having Pagan come in at this point with better stuff. And I know he's scary, but I trust him and his still developing splitter than I trust Duffey at this point. And that saddens me.

The Twins aren't going to make some major trade for an All Star RP. But I think they will make a deal for another Romo/Dyson that could pay dividends. They have a month for Duffey to have a "tired arm" or blister, or whatever to rehab in the minors for a few weeks and see if he can find himself again. Otherwise, he's out come early to mid July. The Twins are waiting on Alcala. They're hoping for Stashak to be healthy and flash what he shown at times when healthy. And don't think for a minute they aren't waiting for someone to step up. 

I think Duffey probably will get some kind of a IL stint, followed by a AAA rehab. They're not going to risk cutting bait too soon. But it will then be up to Duffey to force himself back up to the parent club.

For some reason, Thielbar is always included in Duffey conversations/discussions. Not sure why. Thielbar allowed a lot of inherited runs to score in the nightmare that was 2021. But like Duffey, too little too late, he pitched much better later on. His 2022 numbers look like crap due to some early bad performances, but look really good his past couple of weeks. And I'm OK with that. I'd rather see a rough start and then settle in vs a rough start and continued bad performance. 

Duffey to the IL for whatever reason and then rehab. If you show something, you 'll get a shot. And that would be great. But you have to be better than Duran, or Jax, or Alcala , and a few others on the rise. And maybe/probably at least one solid traded for arm. Did I mention Smith? The onus is on Duffey to find something that works and make him an important piece again. Could be tough.

[RpR]

 

Is it time to move on from Tyler Duffey?
 

To whom or what?

A crap-shoot rookie?

[Karbo]

17 hours ago, USAFChief said:

1. There are no low-leverage-only spots in a modern bullpen. When the expectation is 3 or more relievers EVERY night, and many nights 4 or 5, every reliever is going to be pitching in high leverage situations. Often. It can't be avoided.

2. Duffey zoomed up out of nowhere in 2019, close to that in a short 2020. Went back to normal when "grip enhancers" became a thing in 2021. Perhaps unfairly, I'm suspicious.

3. Duffey is bad, but I don't think there are 7 or 8 consistently better options in the organization, 

4. I keep asking for bullpen talent every winter, and I keep reading reasons why they don't need to add...well, this is what you get.

You hit an important point. The fact that pretty much all the teams have quit letting their starters pitch until they are actually getting tired. IMO most teams including the Twins could average at least 1 reliever less a game if they let their starters go longer. Sure sometimes they have to get pulled early due to getting knocked around, but to pull a guy that is doing fine, with a decent pitch count, just because he's about to face the lineup for the 3rd time is ridiculous IMO. If you are worried get a guy loosening up in the pen but maybe, just maybe, the starter can give another inning or 2 and save a reliever or 2. But so many teams now want to go with some sort of plan. 

[TopGunn#22]

I'm with Doc Bauer on this one.  I just can't see Duffey remaining on the team for long.  Whether some sort of injury conveniently happens or he's just simply DFA'd there are younger arms with better stuff.  I for one think Smeltzer should remain in the rotation no matter when Ryan and Gray return and stay there until he pitches himself out of it.  He's a lefty and he's been exceptionally good. 

Bundy isn't long for this team and Archer should be moved to long relief---3 innings per stint or so.  I could see Archer coming in after Winder goes 4-5 innings (or, dreaming a little bit, Canterino).  I like the idea of adding an arm like Jose Lopez from Baltimore to the pen.  It gives the Twins Duran and Lopez to close and deepens the depth.  Not sure what he would cost but I don't see it as being "prohibitive."  

[peterb18]

19 hours ago, Trov said:

I would not full DFA him yet.  I would put him in much lower leverage outings and see how are many other rotating arms can do in high leverage situations, hoping Duffy can work through his issues.  He has history of having a good run, maybe he can regain it. 

 

14 hours ago, The Mad King said:

Somebody has to be desperate enough to give us a few bags of balls for him. 

He was put in as low-leverage situation as you can get.

[terrydactyls]

I have a question for all of you about the technicalities of DFA.  As I understand the DFA process, all it means is removing a player from the 40-man roster for a short amount of time, during which the team can decide what to do with him.  The options are putting him on waivers, trading the player, or (if no one wants to trade or claim him off waivers) either an outright release or return him to the 40-man roster.  If my understanding is correct, why not DFA Duffy right now?  Because his feelings might be hurt?  My thought is that finding a phantom illness so he can be put on the IL is not necessary.  Just DFA him, see if anyone has any interest in him, and then either trade him, put him back on the roster, or send him down to see if he rediscovers his magic.

[KBJ1]

I've been Sceaming Bullpen for years!

It wasn't good enough when we had Roger's, May, Pressley & Duffy and it couldn't be any worse now.

Magill & Cotton have shown promise, but aren't ready for high leverage yet.

Acala has yet to step up & is coming.

 off injury. Duran is the only savior we have right now.

Who are we kidding with guys like Stashak, Columbe, Thorpe etc al?

Should have spent Correa's $35M on 4 or 5 quality bullpen arms and rolled the dice with Mitanda, Lewis & Pallacio or Gordon.

You simply have NO chance without a top 5 bullpen, the end.

[MTV]

Send him off in a trade package with Gio Urshela to either the Rays, Brewers, or Giants. All 3 of those teams could see an improvement/another 3B and could help turn Duffey around, while offering some solid players in return. 
 

I think the Twins should trade Urshela for a 1B/3B, because Miranda, Arraez, and Lewis should all be getting consistent playing time and he’ll have value with a solid bat/glove and 2 years of control

[MTV]

41 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

I have a question for all of you about the technicalities of DFA.  As I understand the DFA process, all it means is removing a player from the 40-man roster for a short amount of time, during which the team can decide what to do with him.  The options are putting him on waivers, trading the player, or (if no one wants to trade or claim him off waivers) either an outright release or return him to the 40-man roster.  If my understanding is correct, why not DFA Duffy right now?  Because his feelings might be hurt?  My thought is that finding a phantom illness so he can be put on the IL is not necessary.  Just DFA him, see if anyone has any interest in him, and then either trade him, put him back on the roster, or send him down to see if he rediscovers his magic.

If you DFA him now you’re shortening up an already shaky bullpen, and his trade value will be down the drain. He’s at least a veteran leader for the new, inexperienced arms and should be put in low-leverage situations.

[terrydactyls]

5 minutes ago, MTV said:

If you DFA him now you’re shortening up an already shaky bullpen, and his trade value will be down the drain. He’s at least a veteran leader for the new, inexperienced arms and should be put in low-leverage situations.

The Twins would be shortening a shaky bullpen only by however long the DFA period lasts (7 or 10 days).  But more importantly, Duffy might be the shakiest of the group.  So wouldn't that actually be strengthening the bullpen (basic principles of mathematics)?

[terrydactyls]

11 minutes ago, MTV said:

Send him off in a trade package with Gio Urshela to either the Rays, Brewers, or Giants. All 3 of those teams could see an improvement/another 3B and could help turn Duffey around, while offering some solid players in return. 
 

I think the Twins should trade Urshela for a 1B/3B, because Miranda, Arraez, and Lewis should all be getting consistent playing time and he’ll have value with a solid bat/glove and 2 years of control

Why trade for a 1B/3B?  That's where the logjam exists.  Trade for pitching.

[2wins87]

2 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

I have a question for all of you about the technicalities of DFA.  As I understand the DFA process, all it means is removing a player from the 40-man roster for a short amount of time, during which the team can decide what to do with him.  The options are putting him on waivers, trading the player, or (if no one wants to trade or claim him off waivers) either an outright release or return him to the 40-man roster.  If my understanding is correct, why not DFA Duffy right now?  Because his feelings might be hurt?  My thought is that finding a phantom illness so he can be put on the IL is not necessary.  Just DFA him, see if anyone has any interest in him, and then either trade him, put him back on the roster, or send him down to see if he rediscovers his magic.

I think when DFAd he would immediately go on waivers, all teams would have a chance to put in a claim, but there is also a time period while he is on waivers that they can still trade. This only happens when there are multiple teams interested, and the team with the lower waiver wire position wants him enough to offer something in return rather than let him go to the team in the higher position.  Usually it doesn't take much for the DFAing team to accept the trade, since the alternative is nothing. I'm not 100% on the details but that's my understanding.

I really don't think making up an injury is a possibility at all. Teams have gotten a little loose with using minor issues to create roster flexibility, but there has to be at least some buy in from the player. If they came to Duffey and said "You're injured", he would have a slam dunk labor violation case against the team. I know he still gets paid on the IL but players have incentive to be on the active roster to maximize any potential future earnings, or to at least get a shot with another team if the current one has decided they're not worth playing. I'm sure there is something in the CBA that prevents that kind of egregious behavior from teams.

[ScottyB]

Did anyone not see this coming when Rocco brings in Duffey in a one run game vs the Yankees? Close game becomes a blowout with Duffey in there. Get rid of him tonight. I question Rocco as well. Duffey sucks! I’d rather go with a 25 man roster than have Duffey as a temptation for Baldelli.

[ashbury]

23 hours ago, RpR said:

Is It Time to Move on From Tyler Duffey?

To whom or what?

A crap-shoot rookie?

Teh Pitching Pipeline (tm) .

[cheeseheadgophfan]

28 minutes ago, ScottyB said:

Did anyone not see this coming when Rocco brings in Duffey in a one run game vs the Yankees? Close game becomes a blowout with Duffey in there. Get rid of him tonight. I question Rocco as well. Duffey sucks! I’d rather go with a 25 man roster than have Duffey as a temptation for Baldelli.

Seriously,....it's a one run game, and my first thought was "Rocco isn't throwing up the white flag" because he's bringing in Duffey.  There is literally no situation that he is pitchable in right now.  As for who else?  Ahhhhhhhhhh....they just sent out a reliever with a sub 2 ERA....call me crazy, but I think most would take Cotton.

[Mike Sixel]

I admit disappointment with Rocco over bringing in Duffey tonight. Big time disappointment. That game was still winnable.

[Riverbrian]

I'm sure there are attempts being made to fix whatever has gone really really wrong but the clock is really ticking. He's gone next year. The benefit of getting him fixed doesn't extend past this year and if you don't fix it this year... someone with no future in the organization will be taking us down. 

I hate to say it... Duffey is basically Logan Morrison or Matt Shoemaker at this point. You can't let players who won't be back... kill you. 

I really hate saying things like this. 

[Major League Ready]

9 hours ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

Seriously,....it's a one run game, and my first thought was "Rocco isn't throwing up the white flag" because he's bringing in Duffey.  There is literally no situation that he is pitchable in right now.  As for who else?  Ahhhhhhhhhh....they just sent out a reliever with a sub 2 ERA....call me crazy, but I think most would take Cotton.

Cotton is not on the 40 man.  He was here on a Covid exception and we will have several players coming off the IL and Covid lists.  They are going to have some 40 man challenges when Ryan / Gray / Correa / Kirilloff and Alcala come back.  Part of this is also you don't just dump a guy that has been part of the team for 6 years without giving them a chance to redeem themselves.  It's not good for morale.  There are also MANY examples of players who struggle for a while and then do great.  Buxton really sucks right now too.  I am betting he we get back to playing great. 

[Squirrel]

38 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Cotton is not on the 40 man.  He was here on a Covid exception and we will have several players coming off the IL and Covid lists.  They are going to have some 40 man challenges when Ryan / Gray / Correa / Kirilloff and Alcala come back.  Part of this is also you don't just dump a guy that has been part of the team for 6 years without giving them a chance to redeem themselves.  It's not good for morale.  There are also MANY examples of players who struggle for a while and then do great.  Buxton really sucks right now too.  I am betting he we get back to playing great. 

I agree it’s not good to just dump a guy after so many years, but it’s also terrible for morale to lose games that are winnable and put them out of reach most times they are used. Move Duffey to a mop up role or when we have a commanding lead until he comes out of it, and if he doesn’t, then make the tough decision. I give it to the trade deadline

[Vanimal46]

I understand Duffey having a history here, but this is very alarming. Reminiscent of Alex Colomé last year. 

[Mike Sixel]

20 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

I understand Duffey having a history here, but this is very alarming. Reminiscent of Alex Colomé last year. 

My feelings exactly. 

[GeorgiaBaller]

Prior comment hit it on the head---he just should not be playing based on his current performance.  I have compared him to Scott Baker before--but he just can't seem to turn the corner.  It seems mental to me looking at this eyes when he comes in.  He did better once transferred to the pen when he didn't have to think the game as much.   That wore off.  

Bargain or not---you can't march him out anymore.

[strumdatjag]

And then there was Duffey’s performance in what was a close Twins-Yankees game (pre-Duffey) …