Royals 3, Twins 2: Smeltzer Dazzles, Bullpen and Bats Fall Short

[Mark G]

10 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

If the Twins gave up selling their collective soul to analytics and actually used their brains they would win far more games. Even the game Sunday they came back and won was in spite of analytics, not because of it. 

YES!  Hey, maybe I am not a minority of one.

[Riverbrian]

9 hours ago, David Youngs said:

The crafty lefty has started three games for the parent club this season and has passed the test with flying colors. Through those three games, Smeltzer has a 1.74 ERA in 17 ⅓ innings while only allowing two runs. Keep the man up. 

He started the game at 1.74. 

improved to 1.04

 

[rwilfong86]

1 minute ago, Riverbrian said:

He started the game at 1.74. 

improved to 1.04

 

He needs to stay up, either as a starter or long reliever who can spot start as needed.

[rwilfong86]

4 minutes ago, Mark G said:

YES!  Hey, maybe I am not a minority of one.

[Riverbrian]

Devin Smeltzer: "My wife told me this morning, I need to throw more changeups down and away, and I agreed. And that's what we did."

 

Dear, Falvey, Lavine and Baldelli

As long as they are hanging zeros. Please keep Devin and his wife in the rotation. 

[rwilfong86]

2 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Devin Smeltzer: "My wife told me this morning, I need to throw more changeups down and away, and I agreed. And that's what we did."

 

Dear, Falvey, Lavine and Baldelli

As long as they are hanging zeros. Please keep Devin and his wife in the rotation. 

Hire her as a pitching consultant!

[SockNet]

I know Kepler just hit a grand slam a few days ago but I still swear the Twins are the only team that can have bases juiced with no outs and not score A run. They do it all the time with less than two out. They just take terible at bats. Way to many strike outs.

[rwilfong86]

3 minutes ago, SockNet said:

I know Kepler just hit a grand slam a few days ago but I still swear the Twins are the only team that can have bases juiced with no outs and not score A run. They do it all the time with less than two out. They just take terible at bats. Way to many strike outs.

If MLB keeps stats of teams with bases loaded and less than 2 outs but get 0 runs the Twins have to be tops in that category. It's crazy how 2 consecutive games they were in that spot with the game on the line and couldn't get a single run. 

[TopGunn#22]

Not only is it time to get some bullpen help (I'm all for Lopez), it's time to move Smeltzer into the rotation and move Archer to a Griffen Jax role...middle guy who can go 3 innings.  That, to me is where Bundy should be headed as well.  It's time to move on from Duffey and Theilbar as well.  Shuffling some roles and adding an arm like Lopez could help.  

I'd love to see Canterino in the pen at some point, but the Twins seem (probably rightfully so) to be committed to using him as a SP all year.  I just don't know how that will work with whatever innings limit they have already determined for him.

Still, if this team could ever figure out "situational hitting" we'd have won the last two games against the Tigers and Royals.  You can't keep loading the bases with nobody out, late in one-run games and coming up with a goose egg.  

[KFEY93]

9 hours ago, Monticore said:

Would it have killed him to have Smeltzer pitch the 8th? Why did he leave Duffy in after the first 2 hits? After last night's bases loaded futility, why not bunt a runner in this time? 

Because he doesn't know what he's doing with the BP. I gets stated week in and week out yet people see we're being over critical. Thats now 4 games I can count this season that were lost on Rocco not knowing when to keep a starter in or yanking a BP arm when things are clearly falling apart. I get it, our record is still good. But these types of losses add up, and they really matter if we some how make it to a play off game this season. 

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, rwilfong86 said:

MLB calculates the number of runners each batter left on base, which some batters strand the same runners so the total is 30. See graphic. 

MLB has never counted  LOB in that manner. 

 

Here's the entire MLB box score, "Team LOB 12":

https://www.mlb.com/gameday/royals-vs-twins/2022/05/26/661771#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=box,game=661771

[rwilfong86]

7 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

MLB has never counted  LOB in that manner. 

 

Here's the entire MLB box score, "Team LOB 12":

https://www.mlb.com/gameday/royals-vs-twins/2022/05/26/661771#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=box,game=661771

They do and have for quite awhile. See the column on the right side which is the individual LOB, there is team LOB which is below.

[USAFChief]

7 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

They do and have for quite awhile. See the column on the right side which is the individual LOB, there is team LOB which is below.

They don't and have never. At least in my (considerable) lifetime. 

 

But it doesn't matter anyway. 

 

Somebody step up and accumulate some RBI. Then we'd have fewer no matter how you count em.

[rwilfong86]

1 minute ago, USAFChief said:

They don't and have never. At least in my (considerable) lifetime. 

 

But it doesn't matter anyway. 

 

Somebody step up and accumulate some RBI. Then we'd have fewer no matter how you count em.

Apparently they do since it's in the box score. But I agree, someone needs a hit with runners on. 

[TheLeviathan]

Definitely feels like we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

* Going to the pen in the 8th is totally ok with me.  Not warming someone up when the second guy reached was a mistake.  When Duffey is on, he's on.  But when things go sideways he has a tendency to unravel.

* As others have said, the Royals blue-printed the way to approach it in the top of the inning, but Gordon should've been the pinch runner.  

*I feel like there have been a lot of times this year where I scratch my head at our third base coach's decisions.  Nobody out and bases loaded is a time you have to execute, but it should've been a tie game at that point.

[Sparky55]

I would guess that Polanco plays today but couldn't pinch hit last night instead of Gordon?

We have the fastest guy (Buxton) on first and the only pitch the Royals pitcher is throwing are breaking balls and we don't have Buxton or Correa steal?

DFA Duffy

[djvang]

Duffey strikes again. As soon as he gives up a hit he should be yanked immediately because many more will follow. 

[terrydactyls]

And in other news, last night in Milwaukee, Hadar pitched his 30th consecutive scoreless inning in relief.

[bighat]

5 hours ago, Mark G said:

That is amazing, considering they have scored 3 runs or less in 25 of their 45 games so far.  It would be interesting to see what categories they are so high in.

Disagree.

It's not Rocco's fault this team can't hit a baseball with a man in scoring position. It's not Rocco's fault they're averaging 2 runs in 80% of their games this year. It's not Rocco's fault that Buxton went 0-for-30 (!!!!). The problem isn't the pitching (yet) or the manager. It's anemic hitting on a historic level.

[Bamboo Bat]

Rarely can you see a manager lose a game with such clarity. 

Royals 8th: Rocco leaves Duffy in to get pounded even though it's clear almost right away he doesn't have it. Nobody warming up. Glimpses of Rocco in the dugout show a guy who either (a) doesn't care or (b) is unaware he's at a baseball game he's supposed to be managing. Pathetic. 

Twins 8th: Matheny watches Payamps give up three straight hits & races out to get his pitcher. Barlow comes in & salvages the inning & the game for the Royals. Clearly one of the managers was awake during the game.

[Mark G]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

Definitely feels like we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

* Going to the pen in the 8th is totally ok with me.  Not warming someone up when the second guy reached was a mistake.  When Duffey is on, he's on.  But when things go sideways he has a tendency to unravel.

* As others have said, the Royals blue-printed the way to approach it in the top of the inning, but Gordon should've been the pinch runner.  

*I feel like there have been a lot of times this year where I scratch my head at our third base coach's decisions.  Nobody out and bases loaded is a time you have to execute, but it should've been a tie game at that point.

"Going to the pen in the 8th" is fine, if he has 104 pitches (or more).  When you have allowed 3 base runners on 80 pitches you have a proven commodity in the game vs. an unproven one.  If we truly do not trust our starters to go through a lineup a 3rd or 4th time, then find 13 decent relievers and throw 162 bullpen games.  Just kidding...............sort of.

Shoot, there I go again, now I am going to get yelled at.    

[beterday]

Who would you rather have up to bat?  The new Tony Gwynn or a non-hitting rookie followed by .240 hitter that feels like a .080 hitter.  Twins needed a pinch runner on second when Arraez came up to bat.  All in on that tying run, leave Jeffers in the game to catch rather than pinch hit for him.  I KNEW the only chance to score was with Arraez up and a runner on second.  Duffy!!!  How many people were hollering at the TV besides me when he was allowed to pitch to the next guy after giving up the tying run?  Nobody warming up in the pen?  Have been giving Rocco the benefit of the doubt, but not anymore.  The scale has tipped.

[rwilfong86]

1 minute ago, beterday said:

Who would you rather have up to bat?  The new Tony Gwynn or a non-hitting rookie followed by .240 hitter that feels like a .080 hitter.  Twins needed a pinch runner on second when Arraez came up to bat.  All in on that tying run, leave Jeffers in the game to catch rather than pinch hit for him.  I KNEW the only chance to score was with Arraez up and a runner on second.  Duffy!!!  How many people were hollering at the TV besides me when he was allowed to pitch to the next guy after giving up the tying run?  Nobody warming up in the pen?  Have been giving Rocco the benefit of the doubt, but not anymore.  The scale has tipped.

Pinch hitting for 3 guys who had a hit and both rbis is a head scratcher. When they had Gordon pinch hitting for Jeffers, Jeffers looked completely disgusted.

[Puckett34]

Well that was a disappointment.

 

[rv78]

Just when I was starting to think Rocco had turned over a new leaf and was actually bunting guys into scoring position and trying to manufacture runs that produced wins he wakes up and goes back to his usual incompetant self. How many mistakes did he make in last nights game? 1)Pulling Smeltzer, No reason not to use him in the 8th. 2)Using one of your least reliable relievers in a close game, aka Dud-fey 3)Not having another reliever warming up after inserting Duffey because of #2. 4)Not pulling Duffey because of #2. 5)Never bunting anyone into scoring position. 6)Pulling Celestino, one of your hottest hitters for a streaky Kepler who's hitting almost 100 points less. That does not improve your chances. 7)Not using Gordon as a pinch runner for Sanchez in the 8th. 8)Then using Gordon as a pinch hitter for Jeffers with the bases loaded. Jeffers has a .400 BA with runners in scoring position. Seems Rocco uses analytics to "try" to win games but ignores them to "actually" lose games.

It's easy to win MOY when your team sets the record for HR's in a single season. When you actually have to manage games correctly to win, Rocco fails more than he succeeds. 

[rv78]

1 hour ago, rwilfong86 said:

Pinch hitting for 3 guys who had a hit and both rbis is a head scratcher. When they had Gordon pinch hitting for Jeffers, Jeffers looked completely disgusted.

Imagine how you would feel as a player when you get pulled by the manager in that situation. It's got to make you wonder if your manager has any confidence in you at all. It would be one thing to get pinch hit for by someone like an Arraez but Gordon? Really? 

[Rosterman]

Alex Colome 1-0 3.79 in Coors Field, with a couple of saves.

[rwilfong86]

6 minutes ago, rv78 said:

Imagine how you would feel as a player when you get pulled by the manager in that situation. It's got to make you wonder if your manager has any confidence in you at all. It would be one thing to get pinch hit for by someone like an Arraez but Gordon? Really? 

Especially after you smoked a ball for an RBI earlier in the game. Reminds me of last season when the team pretty much quit mid-season.

[MMMordabito]

That 20-win May is starting to look like a pipe dream.  A 12-win June is probably more likely.

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Mark G said:

"Going to the pen in the 8th" is fine, if he has 104 pitches (or more).  When you have allowed 3 base runners on 80 pitches you have a proven commodity in the game vs. an unproven one.  If we truly do not trust our starters to go through a lineup a 3rd or 4th time, then find 13 decent relievers and throw 162 bullpen games.  Just kidding...............sort of.

Shoot, there I go again, now I am going to get yelled at.    

It was the most he had thrown all year.  If he wasn't stretched out for more than you don't run the risk of injury.  This is the reality for all teams right now.  Your argument lacks the necessary context.