3 Reasons Target Field Attendance Continues to Be Sparse

[baul0010]

8 hours ago, strumdatjag said:

3 Other factors:

1.  Crime in Minneapolis, especially downtown. 
2.  Inflation fears.

3.   Wild and Wolves in playoffs, competing for sports fans’ dollars (although that doesn’t explain the recent poor attendance).  
 

Lack of options on streaming services!  I watched games on TV as a kid, it's why I grew up loving the Twins.  We were hours from the stadium.  My kids watch zero games, we cuddled through the streaming options with bally until there were none

 

[Epravens]

24 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I got the cheap food right, though?

That would be a necessity for those who had just gotten mugged in the parking ramp.

[Mike Sixel]

It's too long and boring. So much time without anything happening. I can't imagine going to a MLB game that isn't a playoff game. 

Among all the other issues mentioned.

[Mander]

3 hours ago, Markdumont25 said:

As someone who actually lives in the city (roughly a mile from Target Field), the comments on downtown crime being a factor are frustrating. Is it worse than it was 3 years ago? Yea. But I spend sooo much time in the area around Target Field and the idea someone would avoid a game and supporting your team because of safety concerns is eye-roll inducing. You have a much higher chance getting in a car accident on the way there than being a victim of a crime in the 4 hours you're in the city to see a game. Sadly I think it probably is a factor but it shouldn't be...do some shadowboxing, get your courage up and come support the team.

The constant riots in Minneapolis ever since George Floyd are a big reason. Hard to believe you could ignore that. The national media attention Minneapolis has received for its riots and politicians that wanted to defund police and replace police officers with social workers isn't helping tourism. Minneapolis had to ask for Federal law enforcement help last summer because after George Floyd, many officers quit/retired early. When they tried to hire, they couldn't find enough people who wanted the job. Once again they had riots last June. Crime is up in almost all categories and the understaffed police force cant keep up.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Mander said:

The constant riots in Minneapolis ever since George Floyd are a big reason. Hard to believe you could ignore that. The national media attention Minneapolis has received for its riots and politicians that wanted to defund police and replace police officers with social workers isn't helping tourism. Minneapolis had to ask for Federal law enforcement help last summer because after George Floyd, many officers quit/retired early. When they tried to hire, they couldn't find enough people who wanted the job. Once again they had riots last June. Crime is up in almost all categories and the understaffed police force cant keep up.

I live in Portland, which the national media would have you believe burned to the ground. It hasn't. Not even close. I've never felt unsafe here. Good friends of ours just moved from Iowa to downtown Portland and didn't blink an eye.

Crime is up in other cities more than Mpls, but the reasons are complex and the media is lazy......so they just parrot what they are told or believe or want you to believe. 

[Squirrel]

These threads are for baseball discussion. I live downtown Chicago and understand what some of you are saying why you won't attend games. But let's leave it at that. If you want to have a more in depth discussion on social issues, police justice, riots, urban centers, the media's role ... please visit our Current Affairs club and have that discussion there. But leave these forums to baseball. It has been proven time and time and time again that we cannot remain civil when delving into these complicated issues and we end up with the train far off the tracks in a heap, spilling each others' proverbial blood along the way over our differences of opinion on these issues. These forums exist for baseball. Let's leave it at that.

[Thegrin]

Times have changed and so should the game. Tech advances allow us fans to see where the ball is pitched. This brings justified anger with the umpires calling balls and strikes. 

Baseball analytics have determined that most pitchers should not try and pitch through the order more than twice.  So a multitude of relievers is the result.  It is hard for the avid fan to keep track of all the relievers, let alone the casual fan.  It used to be, people would say, "Lets go to the game, Ryan is pitching."  Now that is a good thing, but we know he'll only pitch 5 or 6 innings and then a bunch of guys we don't know will finish the game, and besides, the umpires can't call balls and strikes right so whats the big deal about baseball anyway?

Analytics also have affected where fielders are placed. and the players are too dumb to adjusts.

The whole game seems unfair. Too random. Too long.  I'd rather stay home and watch 'Survivor' on TV. 

(I live in California and I watch all the games on TV using MLB.TV,  If they let computers call balls and strikes and leave the rest of it alone, the game will adjust.   Don't ban the shift.  Don't use a clock more than the rules we already have.  Get rid of the 10th inning man on 2nd.  I remember when they lowered the mound.  Maybe we do it again..)

[Markdumont25]

2 hours ago, Mander said:

The constant riots in Minneapolis ever since George Floyd are a big reason. Hard to believe you could ignore that. The national media attention Minneapolis has received for its riots and politicians that wanted to defund police and replace police officers with social workers isn't helping tourism. Minneapolis had to ask for Federal law enforcement help last summer because after George Floyd, many officers quit/retired early. When they tried to hire, they couldn't find enough people who wanted the job. Once again they had riots last June. Crime is up in almost all categories and the understaffed police force cant keep up.

 I said that if you actually live here the idea that ppl would be scared to come here is for a few hours is laughable. Nothing you pointed out changes that. The riots (a full year ago now) and the media reports may affect the perception of safety but my whole point is that the perception some ppl have does not equal reality. I acknowledged crime is up. And yet I'm still here and so are tens of thousands of others, and we all aren't being murdered or robbed blind. I'm sorry but Im a fan and I want to see people coming to games and safety reasons are such a misguided reason not to, imo.

[Einheri]

Yeah, I can't really afford it.  Can't afford to watch on TV.  I listen on the radio, though.

[bean5302]

Re: safety issues. Violent crime is up in downtown Minneapolis despite it being dramatically less busy. On top of that, there's the perception of Minneapolis as a whole (Uptown is a friggen disaster). Plenty of people experienced bricks being thrown through windows at restaurants they were dining at downtown restaurants when the Floyd riots started. Those types of experiences don't just get forgotten in days. Seemingly every month businesses announce they're closing due to safety concerns in Minneapolis and the owners of the businesses are scared to even speak about it. I'm close friends with a number of service industry workers who simply won't take jobs in Minneapolis because they do not feel safe based on their actual personal experiences. I'm talking about people who've taken solo trips to Africa and often travel out of the country alone...

So is it really that bad? Maybe, maybe not. Reputation is what matters and people aren't going to risk getting held up at gunpoint, shot, carjacked or assaulted to find out, regardless of their shadowboxing skill level...

I haven't been shot yet, but I do understand why people are afraid of Minneapolis.

[Markdumont25]

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

So is it really that bad? Maybe, maybe not. Reputation is what matters and people aren't going to risk getting held up at gunpoint, shot, carjacked or assaulted to find out, regardless of their shadowboxing skill level...

Fair enough. And obviously if you truly believe there's danger then a baseball game isn't worth it. I can only offer my view/perspective as someone that is in the city pretty much 100% of the time (and around Target Field specifically) and hope it eases some concerns...and in my view these concerns are grossly exaggerated. We all love our Twins, and if you're on the fence, my pure, honest advice from one Twins fan to the other is don't let safety be the reason you don't go and I'm happy to help anyone find a safe parking spot/route to the park if they need it.

[SoDakTwinsFan4]

Another well written post by Cody Christie

[Richmond Dude]

Regarding the crime issue and the impact on attendance.  I don't live in Minnesota anymore and I miss having the ability to go to the games, but as a result, I have no idea whether crime is actually up in the city and even what kind of crime may be occurring.  But I have a lot of experience with understanding crime and how people respond to it and can tell you that there are actually two different things here.

There is crime and then there is the media coverage of crime.  The second plays a much greater role in how people view an area and it lasts years.  For instance, when the LRT discussion came up, I imagine that people remember how there were a bunch of Strib stories about robberies and assaults on the trains, usually during the overnight.  But those stories were pre-Covid, if I remember.  But they stick.  It is irrelevant to attendance whether people are safe, what counts is whether they feel safe.

Regardless, Go Twins!  Wish I could be there with you in person.

[Sparky55]

I would guess it's Putin's fault!

[dex8425]

19 hours ago, Markdumont25 said:

As someone who actually lives in the city (roughly a mile from Target Field), the comments on downtown crime being a factor are frustrating. Is it worse than it was 3 years ago? Yea. But I spend sooo much time in the area around Target Field and the idea someone would avoid a game and supporting your team because of safety concerns is eye-roll inducing. You have a much higher chance getting in a car accident on the way there than being a victim of a crime in the 4 hours you're in the city to see a game. Sadly I think it probably is a factor but it shouldn't be...do some shadowboxing, get your courage up and come support the team.

I agree with you that it's pretty much baseless and frustrating. But I have elderly relatives in Brookings and Sioux Falls, and they said they won't go to their typical 2-3 Twins games this year because of their perceived crime risk. I think it's pretty much all coming from people who haven't actually been to Minneapolis in years. 

[Karbo]

21 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

You really covered a lot of the important points.  Time of game is an issue too, with another post pointing to crime concerns, late night after 3 hour games is not something many people are pleased with.  

The lock out created terribly negative reactions in fans and like the previous strikes it takes a lot to bring fans back.  The lockout was stupid, so much negativity in a sport that is fighting to hold its place among the professional leagues.  We now have every option in sports and we have a wonderful set of options for people who do not care about sports.

I do worry that baseball seems to have lost  its way in the public arena. 

You are correct about the crime or what I call civil disobedience. I quit going to night games after all the rioting down there last year.

[Brock Beauchamp]

37 minutes ago, dex8425 said:

I agree with you that it's pretty much baseless and frustrating. But I have elderly relatives in Brookings and Sioux Falls, and they said they won't go to their typical 2-3 Twins games this year because of their perceived crime risk. I think it's pretty much all coming from people who haven't actually been to Minneapolis in years. 

For funsies, I do IP geolocation checks on many of the people who make these comments and so far:

0 from Minneapolis
A few from the suburbs
Overwhelming majority from outside metro areas

So yeah.

As with so many things in life, the most ignorant people in the situation are yelling the loudest.

[RLTW894]

On 5/26/2022 at 8:18 AM, strumdatjag said:

3 Other factors:

1.  Crime in Minneapolis, especially downtown. 
2.  Inflation fears.

3.   Wild and Wolves in playoffs, competing for sports fans’ dollars (although that doesn’t explain the recent poor attendance).  
 

I agree with the crime. I do park and ride on the Metro. Earlier this season, the homeless were getting terrible on the Metro. I don’t care if they ride to escape the cold, but they were selling drugs and smoking in the cars. That was unacceptable. They would always hop off right before Target Field. I think it’s been addressed as last time, I noticed much less homeless and none of the illegal activities.

[RLTW894]

14 hours ago, Markdumont25 said:

 I said that if you actually live here the idea that ppl would be scared to come here is for a few hours is laughable. Nothing you pointed out changes that. The riots (a full year ago now) and the media reports may affect the perception of safety but my whole point is that the perception some ppl have does not equal reality. I acknowledged crime is up. And yet I'm still here and so are tens of thousands of others, and we all aren't being murdered or robbed blind. I'm sorry but Im a fan and I want to see people coming to games and safety reasons are such a misguided reason not to, imo.

I’ve never lived in the Twin Cities area. I live about an hour and a half away. But I have worked in the Cities for years with my former part-time job. Like you, I was aware of the riots after Floyd. But I never once felt like the Cities were any more dangerous after all that settled down.

I either park and ride on the Metro to Twins games, or park in the Orpheum Theater lot. The Metro was getting really bad with the homeless selling drugs and even smoking in the cars. I think that has been addressed. It was much better a couple weeks ago. I’ll find out at tonight’s game. When we park at the lot, there are homeless around, but I never feel unsafe.

[RLTW894]

19 hours ago, PopRiveter said:

I'm deep in love with this team so I was going to bite the bullet and start a cable subscription, but the very cheapest option with Bally was $90 per month. I can't rationalize that. I instead decided that I'd watch all the innings I can at friends' homes and restaurants. I often have to pick up my daughter from the restaurant where she works, so I've been getting in the habit of arriving an hour early, buying a beer and sipping it over as many innings as I can stretch it. My plan is costing me less than $90 a month and it comes with beer!

I’m a new Twins fan as of second half of last season. I got season tickets this year. I did the monthly plan over 10 months and there is no interest or fees. The extra perks have been a lot of fun for my daughter, who is the real hardcore Twins fan. Not going to say it’s cheap, but it’s doable. Twins also offer monthly standing room only plans for around $50 a month. The way the seats are empty so far, it’s super easy to find good open seats down below. Beer is not cheap, lol, but it’s a way to get to the games for half the price of cable per month, and you can choose what months you want it. You can also pool with others for season tickets and still get some of the perks.

I also get free MLBTV with my season tickets. While it’s no good for Twins games with the blackouts, I’m also a Brewers fan and paid for MLBTV last year. With all these perks, and knowing I was going to take my daughter to the games anyway, it made a lot of sense. She loves all the extra perks.

[whydidnt]

Biggest reason for me is the Twins have underestimated the impact of making it cost prohibitive for a huge group of baseball fans to watch their games on TV. Out of site, out of mind for me. I used to pickup a game or 2 per week and then watch some of almost every game. That increased my interest in the team, and I'd go to 7-10 games a year. 

Other reasons

- MPLS crime. You can tell me all you want that it's not an issue, but the fact remains one is far more likely to be the target of violent crime in Minneapolis than any other location in the state. 
- Total cost of attendance. Yes cheap tickets are available, but those are for seats with really poor view of the field. Parking is expensive, Concessions are stupidly overpriced - $12.00 for a beer? Sure they have some cheap leftovers for sale at a stand in left field, but how about you just provide a fair price everywhere, instead of gouging your customers, just because you can. 

End of the day, the Twins are entertainment, we all have a fixed amount that we can spend on entertainment, and right now they aren't providing enough of a value for the product they are offering,  at least for me (and seemingly many others in the area)

 

[Reptevia]

The lockout. 
Covid still is a thing. 
The Twins and Bally sports. 

[Craig Arko]

So I used to walk across the bridge to the Metrodome. Going to Target Field more than once a year is just too bloody expensive. Going as part of a group with the pub crawls is fun; might consider that again if there’s one this year.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

3 hours ago, dex8425 said:

I agree with you that it's pretty much baseless and frustrating. But I have elderly relatives in Brookings and Sioux Falls, and they said they won't go to their typical 2-3 Twins games this year because of their perceived crime risk. I think it's pretty much all coming from people who haven't actually been to Minneapolis in years. 

I really like how you phrased this. Individual perception based on their lived experience is real, and how people make their decisions. We all do.

Inflationary effects are also perceptive. Inflation gets thrown around as this 2% or 5% or 8% of GDP, but it does not effect all products equally, so individuals feel it differently.

We all make our decisions based on our individual experiences.

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

I really like how you phrased this. Individual perception based on their lived experience is real, and how people make their decisions. We all do.

Inflationary effects are also perceptive. Inflation gets thrown around as this 2% or 5% or 8% of GDP, but it does not effect all products equally, so individuals feel it differently.

We all make our decisions based on our individual experiences.

Or, it should be noted in this case, we often make our decisions based on our lack of individual experiences.

And in this case, that’s a *huge* part of the problem with American society. 

[The Mad King]

Joe Schmuck: ok kids, I bought us all tickets for tonight's game! 

 

Kids: yay. We can watch a healthy Buxton sit on the bench!

[Rance Sawdust]

On 5/26/2022 at 10:44 AM, DJL44 said:

 

I see a few people have mentioned the price for TV. However, I'm going to expound on that. I live in rural Northern Minnesota. My choices for TV are very limited. We left one provider because of the disputes with FSN. Now, the new provider doesn't carry FSN/BSN (or whatever it is now). I can't get a game on TV without switching providers again. Honestly, I'm super happy we actually have reliable TV with our most recent provider, so I'm not going to switch again. I shouldn't have to pay for MLB tv or something to get a damn game. Why not find a channel that's carried on Hulu to air the games? Plain and simple, it's ridiculous. I can also say that based on a lot of comments/conversations I've had with family and friends, it's hard to get into the Twins enough to go watch a game in person if they don't care enough about our viewership to find a way to get it on TV. You show you care, we'll show we care.

[cHawk]

@Rance Sawdust Welcome to TD!

[Brock Beauchamp]

6 hours ago, Rance Sawdust said:

I can also say that based on a lot of comments/conversations I've had with family and friends, it's hard to get into the Twins enough to go watch a game in person if they don't care enough about our viewership to find a way to get it on TV. You show you care, we'll show we care.

I see this said a lot and the Twins have zero control over what's happening here and when their contract is up, I suspect they're going to have some pretty harsh words to Bally over what has happened.

Remember, the Twins signed their television contract with an entirely different entity, Fox Sports. Bally bought Fox Sports several years later, well into the Twins contract, and that's when most of these shenanigans started happening. The Twins have little to no recourse to take action against Bally until their contract is up for renewal, which happens... after next season, maybe? It's not immediate but not that far away, either.

The Twins would love nothing more than for everyone in the area to be able to reasonably access their content. It's Bally that's doing this, not the Twins.

[dex8425]

On 5/27/2022 at 9:33 AM, Brock Beauchamp said:

For funsies, I do IP geolocation checks on many of the people who make these comments and so far:

0 from Minneapolis
A few from the suburbs
Overwhelming majority from outside metro areas

So yeah.

As with so many things in life, the most ignorant people in the situation are yelling the loudest.

The location data is interesting. I also wonder why the demographics of this site, as opposed to the Athletic, ST PPP, Strib, KFAN, seems to be older and more out-state?