Josh Donaldson Trade Paying Dividends

[PseudoSABR]

11 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

So Josh Donaldson just randomly knew about a 2019 interview Tim Anderson gave where Tim Anderson compared himself to the next Jackie Robinson (one of the greatest baseball players of ALL TIME)? Come on. This absolute obsession with making everything racist is gross. That said, I will stand 100% corrected if such interview comment did not occur.

Anderson was comparing himself to Jackie because of the dearth of African Americans in baseball; not because his play was comparable.   That's part of what makes Donaldson's comments so offensive.  

[shortround81]

6 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

Well, I've had nothing but positive interactions with him first hand as a fan, 

Pics or it didn't happen. 

**rolls eyes** ?

[rwilfong86]

1 minute ago, shortround81 said:

Pics or it didn't happen. 

**rolls eyes** ?

Well, there is a reason I have a pair of his game used cleats signed on display in my basement in my house along with a signed ball. My signed jersey is currently getting framed as we speak. 

[shortround81]

3 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

Well, there is a reason I have a pair of his game used cleats signed on display in my basement in my house along with a signed ball. My signed jersey is currently getting framed as we speak. 

If Jake Cave is ever called up again, he needs to get you on his show. 

 

[rwilfong86]

8 minutes ago, shortround81 said:

If Jake Cave is ever called up again, he needs to get you on his show. 

 

If Jake Cave is in AAA it means the Twins are winning, so I'll pass on being on his show ?

[shortround81]

1 minute ago, rwilfong86 said:

If Jake Cave is in AAA it means the Twins are winning, so I'll pass on being on his show ?

Thanks for taking one for the team. Literally

[rwilfong86]

Just now, shortround81 said:

Thanks for taking one for the team. Literally

Haha my pleasure. They've also won the last 5 games I've been to in person dating back to 2019 ?

[se7799]

59 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

Well, I've had nothing but positive interactions with him first hand as a fan, and some athletes can be kind of douchey because they're athletes and he is the always the opposite of that. The fans love him, his teammates love him, he's also done a lot to help out people back in his hometown in Venezuela and he is a great dad and a great husband. You don't have to know a person intimately to know he is a great guy who loves the game of baseball and likes to have fun.

Well I hope you don't know him intimately.  But even if you do, no real need to call him a cancer...or anybody else for that matter.  Now as for douchey....... I wonder what his opinion would be of you...ya know..?.  Asking for a friend.

[rwilfong86]

2 minutes ago, se7799 said:

Well I hope you don't know him intimately.  But even if you do, no real need to call him a cancer...or anybody else for that matter.  Now as for douchey....... I wonder what his opinion would be of you...ya know..?.  Asking for a friend.

The funny thing is even a guy like Aaron Judge were critical of Donaldson, and that's his teammate. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/yankees-aaron-judge-criticizes-josh-donaldsons-jackie-comment-i-dont-think-its-the-right-thing-to-do/ar-AAXFybL

I actually do my job and don't invite drama and controversy at work, so there wouldn't be anything negative someone could say about me. 

[shortround81]

9 minutes ago, se7799 said:

Well I hope you don't know him intimately.  But even if you do, no real need to call him a cancer...or anybody else for that matter.  Now as for douchey....... I wonder what his opinion would be of you...ya know..?.  Asking for a friend.

That's cute

[se7799]

1 minute ago, shortround81 said:

That's cute

Awww ty!

[KirbyDome89]

So Donaldson, by himself, has been worth 3x the amount of WAR as what the Twins received, but at this moment we're calling it a win for the Twins....

If we're convinced Donaldson is going to fall off a cliff to make this trade palatable, maybe we could, ya know, let that actually happen before proclaiming this a W. 

It's also heartwarming to see TD turning into Twitter, where garbage tier hot takes rule the day and substantiating any of the claims is an afterthought. 

[TheLeviathan]

Everyone should just listen to what Judge said, he hits it spot on.  And he doesn't shy away from saying it again even after a private apology from JD.

Think whatever you want about whether Anderson should've made that comp in the first place, dropping it in the middle of a brawl after you kneed the dude off 3B and spent the series chirping is, at best, pure stupidity.  He did it to upset Anderson, knowing why it would upset him, and then a totally BS line of reasoning to excuse it.  

I'd have had a lot more respect for Donaldson and his intentions if he had just said "I got heated and wanted to say something nasty because I was pissed off, but I crossed a line I shouldn't have.  It wasn't ok, I'm sorry."  

[GeorgiaBaller]

Well—pretty consensus everyone was happy to move on from Donaldson.  My  biggest gripe was he was always hurt.  Don’t run your mouth if you can’t play, veteran or not.  The albatross of his contract without being on the field was terrible.  Once you have the continuous nagging injury like he had, they are recurrent.  Time on IL for the Yanks is around the corner.  Correa seems to be a good clubhouse fit.  Either Sanchez or Urshella gets traded for relief pitching to rebuild the pen this year, so the cycle isn’t over.  
Thank goodness Sano is not a problem right now!  
last thought, time to move on from The new Scott Baker—Tyler Duffey.  How long are we going to wait for this guy to figure it out?  If he has to throw to more than 2 batters, he is a big risk. Medium 90s speed with no movement and questionable control is not a great formula

[Linus]

Well they should have never signed him in the first place so I’m not going to give Falvine  refit for dumping him. 

[Epravens]

2 hours ago, bean5302 said:

So Josh Donaldson just randomly knew about a 2019 interview Tim Anderson gave where Tim Anderson compared himself to the next Jackie Robinson (one of the greatest baseball players of ALL TIME)? Come on. This absolute obsession with making everything racist is gross. That said, I will stand 100% corrected if such interview comment did not occur.

It did. I believe it was in the SI Baseball Preview edition.

[Epravens]

27 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Everyone should just listen to what Judge said, he hits it spot on.  And he doesn't shy away from saying it again even after a private apology from JD.

Think whatever you want about whether Anderson should've made that comp in the first place, dropping it in the middle of a brawl after you kneed the dude off 3B and spent the series chirping is, at best, pure stupidity.  He did it to upset Anderson, knowing why it would upset him, and then a totally BS line of reasoning to excuse it.  

I'd have had a lot more respect for Donaldson and his intentions if he had just said "I got heated and wanted to say something nasty because I was pissed off, but I crossed a line I shouldn't have.  It wasn't ok, I'm sorry."  

Not sure what line he crossed other than renting space between Anderson's ears. As I said earlier perhaps it was ill advised but it certainly was not racism.

[TheLeviathan]

2 minutes ago, Epravens said:

Not sure what line he crossed other than renting space between Anderson's ears. As I said earlier perhaps it was ill advised but it certainly was not racism.

I don't know if he intended to be racist, but I know saying what he did as a slight made it possible to perceive it that way to Anderson and others. And if I were Donaldson and I opened that door, my apology would've looked a lot less jackassy.  He lost my sympathy with "but I was joking....derp"

[snellman]

In my opinion you also have to factor in the fact that had the Twins not been able to trade Donaldson, they would not have been able to sign Correa.  As good as Lewis looked the short time he was with the Twins, Correa has been a big difference overall with this team, and there were a lot of question marks with Lewis at the start of the season due to health and missed time.  I think Correa was the biggest addition with the Donaldson trade.

 

[snellman]

7 hours ago, Dman said:

Doesn't the trade of Donaldson really include Mitch Garver to some degree as well?  The Twins couldn't get Kiner-Falefa without giving up Garver so in the end the trade was. Garver, Kiner-Falefa, Rortvedt and Donalson for Sanchez, Urshela and Henriquez? I don't think you can completely leave the loss of Garver out of that trade IMO.  That seems like a lot to give up to get rid of Donaldson.

Personally I think the Twins were closer to using Royce Lewis at short to start the season or maybe even Palacios than we might realize.  Story was pretty set to go to Boston and it looked like Boras shopped Correa before coming to the Twins who were one of very few teams desperate enough to get something done there.

It all worked remarkably well and maybe you could add Correa in the trade scenario above as the Twins wouldn't have the money to sign him without moving on from Donaldson but getting Correa feels more like luck than any real kind of FO plan as they looked like only team left that hadn't filled their massive shortstop need.

I like the Twins clubhouse and given the reports I have seen so do the players.

 

I think this article sums it up pretty well:

Twins winning and having fun while doing it, tout their clubhouse chemistry

[cHawk]

2 hours ago, Linus said:

Well they should have never signed him in the first place so I’m not going to give Falvine  refit for dumping him. 

Do tell why in 2020 it was a bad idea for them to sign Donaldson. He filled a huge need (3B) for a price much lower than a lot of people thought. He lived up to expectations in his two years here.

Why do you think they shouldn’t have signed him in the first place?

[glunn]

TD posting policy forbids bickering. The bickering in this thread needs to stop.

[TwinsDr2021]

10 hours ago, snellman said:

In my opinion you also have to factor in the fact that had the Twins not been able to trade Donaldson, they would not have been able to sign Correa.  As good as Lewis looked the short time he was with the Twins, Correa has been a big difference overall with this team, and there were a lot of question marks with Lewis at the start of the season due to health and missed time.  I think Correa was the biggest addition with the Donaldson trade.

 

The Twins traded just over 24 million (Donaldson and Garver) for 15.5 million (Sanchez, Gio), So around 10 million in savings, They traded fro Gray 10.66 and signed Correa. So based on those numbers they could have signed Correa without trading Donaldson, probably would have left them with Gray. My point is the Twins could have signed Correa without trading Donaldson and been in the same salary position range.

With that said I was fine with the Donaldson trade and thought it was probably the right move for the team.

[Major League Ready]

34 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

The Twins traded just over 24 million (Donaldson and Garver) for 15.5 million (Sanchez, Gio), So around 10 million in savings, They traded fro Gray 10.66 and signed Correa. So based on those numbers they could have signed Correa without trading Donaldson, probably would have left them with Gray. My point is the Twins could have signed Correa without trading Donaldson and been in the same salary position range.

With that said I was fine with the Donaldson trade and thought it was probably the right move for the team.

I agree they could have managed paying Donaldson and Correa.  However, everyone is looking at this from purely a present year lens and I think it had little to do with this year.  Everything they did pointed toward putting together a good product this year with an emphasis on positioning for the future.  They had several personnel transitions that needed to be made if they were to sustain any sort of real success.  They may have also felt moving Donaldson was needed to improve chemistry / culture and they may have been very important during a period of other transitions.   

Miranda and Lewis were and are the future although I am sure they did not believe Lewis would be ready this soon.   They  also needed to transition Larnach and Celestino to the OF and this is going to be Sano's last year.  Then you have Ryan and Winder taking over rotation spots and Duran / Jax and others taking over BP spots.   The FO was betting enough of these players would be productive enough this year to improve the team while positioning us extremely well in the future.    

I also have not seen anyone include the $21.75M next year of the $16M in 2024 or $8M buyout.  Whatever they are able to add with those funds in 2023 and 2024 needs to be added to this equation.   I just don't think the 2022 budget was a major part of this decision.  Every move with the exception of Correa emphasized the long-term.  Rodon is the only free agent SP that would have been a good add.  Many here would have been very happy had they signed Ray and kept Donaldson.  IMO, they are waaaaay better positioned as a result of trading Donaldson and not signing Ray or Stroman or even Pineda had support here.

[TwinsDr2021]

53 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

I agree they could have managed paying Donaldson and Correa.  However, everyone is looking at this from purely a present year lens and I think it had little to do with this year.  Everything they did pointed toward putting together a good product this year with an emphasis on positioning for the future.  They had several personnel transitions that needed to be made if they were to sustain any sort of real success.  They may have also felt moving Donaldson was needed to improve chemistry / culture and they may have been very important during a period of other transitions.   

Miranda and Lewis were and are the future although I am sure they did not believe Lewis would be ready this soon.   They  also needed to transition Larnach and Celestino to the OF and this is going to be Sano's last year.  Then you have Ryan and Winder taking over rotation spots and Duran / Jax and others taking over BP spots.   The FO was betting enough of these players would be productive enough this year to improve the team while positioning us extremely well in the future.    

I also have not seen anyone include the $21.75M next year of the $16M in 2024 or $8M buyout.  Whatever they are able to add with those funds in 2023 and 2024 needs to be added to this equation.   I just don't think the 2022 budget was a major part of this decision.  Every move with the exception of Correa emphasized the long-term.  Rodon is the only free agent SP that would have been a good add.  Many here would have been very happy had they signed Ray and kept Donaldson.  IMO, they are waaaaay better positioned as a result of trading Donaldson and not signing Ray or Stroman or even Pineda had support here.

? agree with everything you wrote, and you did a better job of saying what I was thinking, I guess my point was the Donaldson trade wasn't about swapping him out for Correa, it was more inline of what you are saying.

[Graham Smith]

The only vivid memory I have of Donaldson's stint here was him pulling his calf on the way to first base. He never lived up to anything close to the cost of having him on the roster. I already have memories of a couple walk-off hits by Sanchez and Urshela, plus a game where Urshela had multiple defensive gems to seal a win. So far so good from my stand point.

[Squirrel]

10 minutes ago, Graham Smith said:

The only vivid memory I have of Donaldson's stint here was him pulling his calf on the way to first base. He never lived up to anything close to the cost of having him on the roster. I already have memories of a couple walk-off hits by Sanchez and Urshela, plus a game where Urshela had multiple defensive gems to seal a win. So far so good from my stand point.

As someone who was excited to sign Donaldson (remembering his days in Oakland ... that's the Donaldson I wanted), and as someone who thought I'd miss him, I concur with the above statement. Haven't missed him and I think he's been replaced just fine.

And welcome to TD! Nice first post ... hope to see more from you!

[Epravens]

18 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

I don't know if he intended to be racist, but I know saying what he did as a slight made it possible to perceive it that way to Anderson and others. And if I were Donaldson and I opened that door, my apology would've looked a lot less jackassy.  He lost my sympathy with "but I was joking....derp"

He was suspended due to perceived racist nature of the comment and for me it is NOT possible to perceive that, The jackassy part of this equation is what Anderson said in the first place.

[TheLeviathan]

39 minutes ago, Epravens said:

He was suspended due to perceived racist nature of the comment and for me it is NOT possible to perceive that, The jackassy part of this equation is what Anderson said in the first place.

Look, you can certainly feel that about Anderson's remark.  It isn't relevant, hard as that might be to swallow.

Donaldson employing that phrase in a scrum is a jackass move.  He meant it to be hurtful and rub Anderson the wrong way.  Pretending it was a joke only doubles down on that.  And here's the part where you need to look in the mirror: MLB didn't suspend him for anything regarding racism.  You think they did and imply it here, but YOU planted that into the conversation.  And it sure feels like you're looking so hard to be offended by it that you never bothered to check the truth value of what you're arguing.  Here's what the MLB ACTUALLY said:

"Regardless of Mr. Donaldson's intent, the comment he directed toward Mr. Anderson was disrespectful and in poor judgment, particularly when viewed in the context of their prior interactions.

"In addition, Mr. Donaldson’s remark was a contributing factor in a bench-clearing incident between the teams, and warrants discipline.

And they are 100% right.  It was disrespectful.  It did show poor judgment.  It was clearly baiting given his knee on Anderson a few days earlier.  He was THE key part in that escalation.  

[Mike Sixel]

I don't think it is realistic to assume they sign CC if they still have Donaldson here. Also, it isn't only about this year....as MLR points out. 

Looking at WPA, MN is doing well in terms of the deal.