Twins 7, Royals 6: Down Six in the Eighth, Twins Comeback to Sweep Royals

[darwin22]

3 hours ago, rwilfong86 said:

That one at-bat is really a justification for the robo umps.

 

1 hour ago, HerbieFan said:

OK.  I'll ask the question.  At what point do we start talking up Gilberto Celestino as a prospect?  Dude is hitting.....what, .350?

Very fair and legit question.  Having seen Celestino very early last season with Wichita when he struggled mightily at the plate, I was shocked to see him promoted.  Although his struggles continued, it appears that Celestino made some serious adjustments--------focusing on contact-------in the offseason and in ST.  His power is very limited, but as he's shown all season-------he takes good ABs working the count and looks to shoot the ball to RF.  His athleticism and glove in the OF is MLB quality.  Making me a big believer.  Keep it going Gilberto!

[FlyingFinn]

20 minutes ago, 2wins87 said:

Bringing in Urshela for Gordon raised my eyebrows a bit though. Not that I think Gordon is a great hitter, but he actually has a better batting average than Urshela and would have had the platoon advantage. Not really a weird move to see most managers make to bring in the more veteran guy, but kind of against type for Rocco.

Actually, Urshela didn't pinch hit. Correa replaced Miranda on defense and, since Gordon doesn't play third, Urshela went in as a defensive replacement in the 8th inning.

[se7799]

I agree.  Been saying from spring training, this team will win along of games.  Love watching this team play.  2019 was fun, but this team is definitely more enjoyable!

[jimbo92107]

This game bodes well for the season. Bailey Ober came in off the IL and showed he was exactly the same good pitcher. Cano showed he needs another month in AAA. Bring up Moran again. Biggest good omen was the comeback. Twins teams in the past have often gone flat in late innings. This squad fought back hard, and put enough pressure on KC's pen to make it crack. Twins teams in playoff years could rally like this fairly often. Best of all, KC is not a pushover. They've got some good young talent, and their bullpen can throw flames. It took a lot of plate discipline to pressure that pen into mistakes. I will include sweet Luis in that number. He got scrawed. 

Speaking of Arraez, maybe the Twins should leave him at 1B and count their blessings. 1B could be the easiest position on his knees, the one thing that could crash his season. Otherwise (foibles aside), he reminds me more and more of Tony Gwynn. Great eye for the zone, and he can barrel it up just about every time. Is Luis Arraez the fiery heart of this Twins team?

[rwilfong86]

6 hours ago, jimbo92107 said:

This game bodes well for the season. Bailey Ober came in off the IL and showed he was exactly the same good pitcher. Cano showed he needs another month in AAA. Bring up Moran again. Biggest good omen was the comeback. Twins teams in the past have often gone flat in late innings. This squad fought back hard, and put enough pressure on KC's pen to make it crack. Twins teams in playoff years could rally like this fairly often. Best of all, KC is not a pushover. They've got some good young talent, and their bullpen can throw flames. It took a lot of plate discipline to pressure that pen into mistakes. I will include sweet Luis in that number. He got scrawed. 

Speaking of Arraez, maybe the Twins should leave him at 1B and count their blessings. 1B could be the easiest position on his knees, the one thing that could crash his season. Otherwise (foibles aside), he reminds me more and more of Tony Gwynn. Great eye for the zone, and he can barrel it up just about every time. Is Luis Arraez the fiery heart of this Twins team?

Buxton may be the best player on the Twins, but by the end of the season Arraez may be the most valuable. The game Saturday night Arraez completely took over, getting on base via hits and walks, driving in runs and scoring runs. He was a wrecking ball. It seemed like every time the Royals had momentum Arraez would come up the next half inning and do something to swing it back to the Twins. When he scored on that wild pitch in the 8th to make it 5-2 the Royals and their fans knew the game was over.

[Riverbrian]

Garlick mashes Righties!!!

[2wins87]

9 hours ago, FlyingFinn said:

Actually, Urshela didn't pinch hit. Correa replaced Miranda on defense and, since Gordon doesn't play third, Urshela went in as a defensive replacement in the 8th inning.

Oh, I missed that. Makes sense

[USAFChief]

43 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Garlick mashes Righties!!!

Bringing his MLB line against righties to .177/.255/.294!!!

[Johnny Ringo]

The Twins Daily faithful are a family; a really big, ugly, dysfunctional family. But can we take a moment and pause, spiritually clink glasses and cheers to "Man, that was a gooooood one." ?

 

[Karbo]

12 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

Like so many other posts I have to question the decision to leave Cano in so long.  When a pitcher does not have his stuff - take him out. 

Just another case of Rocco mismanaging the pen. Leaving Cano in there that long hanging out there to dry when he obviously didn't have it was just wrong.

[Karbo]

8 hours ago, jimbo92107 said:

This game bodes well for the season. Bailey Ober came in off the IL and showed he was exactly the same good pitcher. Cano showed he needs another month in AAA. Bring up Moran again. Biggest good omen was the comeback. Twins teams in the past have often gone flat in late innings. This squad fought back hard, and put enough pressure on KC's pen to make it crack. Twins teams in playoff years could rally like this fairly often. Best of all, KC is not a pushover. They've got some good young talent, and their bullpen can throw flames. It took a lot of plate discipline to pressure that pen into mistakes. I will include sweet Luis in that number. He got scrawed. 

Speaking of Arraez, maybe the Twins should leave him at 1B and count their blessings. 1B could be the easiest position on his knees, the one thing that could crash his season. Otherwise (foibles aside), he reminds me more and more of Tony Gwynn. Great eye for the zone, and he can barrel it up just about every time. Is Luis Arraez the fiery heart of this Twins team?

I agree. Arraez has found a home. Keep hearing about how short he is at 1st base but he gets what he can reach. Never had a doubt about his ability to get on base. With the "new" ball it is almost a perfect fit for his hitting style!

[Riverbrian]

47 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Bringing his MLB line against righties to .177/.255/.294!!!

And it will stay in that range. 

[MN_ExPat]

14 hours ago, rwilfong86 said:

That one at-bat is really a justification for the robo umps.

There is never a justification for Robo umps!! Never!!

?

just kidding… we’ll, no not actually (will never approve of them), but yes I am just having some fun ??.  

[MN_ExPat]

14 hours ago, ashbury said:

Lots of batters may benefit from a more predictable zone.  Pitching is about disrupting timing, and uncertainty of any kind has to contribute to that, even if the pitcher is the victim half the time when the call is incorrect.

I'm a big proponent of automating the ball-strike call, but I believe some sort of adjustment in another way may also be necessary to maintain game balance - maybe a slightly bigger strike zone, for instance, or a little more-deadened ball.

I can see your viewpoint and actually understand it, but just can't get onboard with the whole idea of "Robo Umps"... at least not yet.  I still don't think the technology is where it needs to be for it to be truly effective.  This isn't to say that it won't be someday, but right now... it just seems like there are too many flaws or quirks that need to be worked out.

[TwinsAce]

Fast forward to 2024.  Arraez is up to the plate, bottom 9th with the winning run on 3rd with bases loaded and 2 out.  With the Robo umpires, he has been getting on base 55% of the time and leads the league in average.  First pitch is close and called a strike.  Arraez nods his head in agreement.  Second pitch is close as well, but just outside and called ball. Fast forward 6 pitches, including several foul balls and 2 more balls, the payoff pitch is in.  It is called a strike, but looked to be high.  Arraez shakes his head no...

Robot umpire pauses and then apologizes profusely.  There appears to have been an update pushed out by Microsoft mid at bat that caused the calibration to get off.  After updating for 15 minutes and restarting and recalibrating, the robot umpire confirmed the ball call and the Twins win!!  Next up, opening day in Minneapolis!

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, Karbo said:

Just another case of Rocco mismanaging the pen. Leaving Cano in there that long hanging out there to dry when he obviously didn't have it was just wrong.

Is the suggestion that Rocco should constantly warmup 2 relievers at all times? Seems like an awful lot of unnecessary throws on all of their arms. When you put a reliever in for a clean inning you're not going to have another guy up and throwing immediately. There's a needed gap in time to get another guy loose and ready to go before you can take a reliever out. The Twins lead all of baseball in bullpen WPA. So arguing that Rocco doesn't manage his pen well is suggesting that they should have an even bigger lead than they already do over every other pen in the entirety of major league baseball. Maybe it's not that he doesn't know how to manage a pen, but that he doesn't manage them the way you want him to ?‍♂️

[ashbury]

3 hours ago, rwilfong86 said:

Buxton may be the best player on the Twins, but by the end of the season Arraez may be the most valuable. The game Saturday night Arraez completely took over, getting on base via hits and walks, driving in runs and scoring runs. He was a wrecking ball. It seemed like every time the Royals had momentum Arraez would come up the next half inning and do something to swing it back to the Twins. When he scored on that wild pitch in the 8th to make it 5-2 the Royals and their fans knew the game was over.

If Arraez is coming up every half inning, some other guys must be doing their jobs, too.

[rwilfong86]

4 minutes ago, ashbury said:

If Arraez is coming up every half inning, some other guys must be doing their jobs, too.

The 6th and 8th innings are an example of what I'm talking about, Twins led 2-1 and Arraez walked then came around to score to make it 3-1. Twins add another to make it 4-1. The Royals scored in the bottom of the 7th to make it 4-2, in the 8th Arraez again walked, moved to second on a single, to third on a fielders choice then scored on a wild pitch to make it 5-2 and the game was over then, top of the 9th comes and Twins score 4 more to blow it open. It was a thing of beauty.

[PDX Twin]

12 hours ago, se7799 said:

2019 was fun, but this team is definitely more enjoyable!

Couldn't agree more. They are back to playing baseball, and baseball >>>> homerun derby!

[LA VIkes Fan]

2 hours ago, Karbo said:

I agree. Arraez has found a home. Keep hearing about how short he is at 1st base but he gets what he can reach. Never had a doubt about his ability to get on base. With the "new" ball it is almost a perfect fit for his hitting style!

Why not Arraez as the everyday 1B for the rest of the season, at least against RH pitching? Urshela has played 1B in the Minors and either he, Garlick or Sanchez could be the RH half of that platoon. Lessens the need for Miranda, who could go back to AAA for some work, leaving a spot for Lewis who can play 3B when Urshela is at 1B or resting, a day a week at SS,  a day or 2 a week in LF, and a day at DH. Plenty of room for Lewis to play at least 4-5 days a week.  

What about Kirilloff? We may need to write him off for now. He isn't really hitting much in AAA outside of one game and he isn't hitting for power at all. Another surgery wouldn't be a surprise although this may be a much mental as it is physical. I feel for the kid but I think his chances of helping the Twins this year are not looking very good. 

[jmlease1]

13 hours ago, darwin22 said:

 

Very fair and legit question.  Having seen Celestino very early last season with Wichita when he struggled mightily at the plate, I was shocked to see him promoted.  Although his struggles continued, it appears that Celestino made some serious adjustments--------focusing on contact-------in the offseason and in ST.  His power is very limited, but as he's shown all season-------he takes good ABs working the count and looks to shoot the ball to RF.  His athleticism and glove in the OF is MLB quality.  Making me a big believer.  Keep it going Gilberto!

I'm a big fan of Celestino; if he's hitting respectably then he's an almost perfect 4th OF for this team. He plays a good CF, which is good relief for Buxton when injured/resting and lets us keep Kepler in RF. The RH bat serves well against the corner guys like Kepler, Larnach, and Kirilloff if we're dealing with a tough lefty. He can play any OF spot and give good defense. I think his power potential is respectable for a CF/4th OF, even if he's more of a doubles hitter than a true HR threat (he's still not some slap hitter out there). He does a nice job getting on base and draws enough walks. 

His BABIP suggests he's been pretty fortunate so far, but at the same time he's doing so well that even when he normalizes a bit he can be a solid contributor and keep growing as a player.

[mikelink45]

16 hours ago, ashbury said:

He kept them in the game.

That many runs - if it were a basketball game we could live with the points!

[rwilfong86]

3 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Why not Arraez as the everyday 1B for the rest of the season, at least against RH pitching? Urshela has played 1B in the Minors and either he, Garlick or Sanchez could be the RH half of that platoon. Lessens the need for Miranda, who could go back to AAA for some work, leaving a spot for Lewis who can play 3B when Urshela is at 1B or resting, a day a week at SS,  a day or 2 a week in LF, and a day at DH. Plenty of room for Lewis to play at least 4-5 days a week.  

What about Kirilloff? We may need to write him off for now. He isn't really hitting much in AAA outside of one game and he isn't hitting for power at all. Another surgery wouldn't be a surprise although this may be a much mental as it is physical. I feel for the kid but I think his chances of helping the Twins this year are not looking very good. 

I think the one of the main issues with moving Gio to another spot is he has been playing gold glove level defense at 3rd.

[LA VIkes Fan]

We could still get that 3 days a week 

18 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

I think the one of the main issues with moving Gio to another spot is he has been playing gold glove level defense at 3rd.

We could still get that 3 days a week, and I don't think that Lewis would be a huge downgrade given that he showed himself to be a solid glove at SS.  Urshela part time at 1B would also improve the defense on that side of the IF.

[rwilfong86]

4 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

We could still get that 3 days a week 

We could still get that 3 days a week, and I don't think that Lewis would be a huge downgrade given that he showed himself to be a solid glove at SS.  Urshela part time at 1B would also improve the defense on that side of the IF.

I think giving Royce opportunities to play other positions at the AAA level to see how he does is a great idea, to see how he will fit on the big club going forward.

[Epravens]

To be more politically correct (as demanded apparently) it is my humble opinion that Mr. Baldelli is a victim of the Peter Principle. In other words he has risen to the level of his own incompetence and the Minnesota Twins Baseball Club will not reach the promised land under his watch as he is better suited to do something else. Yoga instructor perhaps.