NY State of Mind: Urshela and Sanchez Re-visited

[gunnarthor]

7 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

I contend Donaldson's personality fits the Yankees better than his personality fits the Twins.

Wants to win, knows he's good. Yeah, his swagger fits better with the Yankees than the Twins.

[KirbyDome89]

2 hours ago, se7799 said:

Leadership is nonsense?  That's a heck of a take...not one I've heard....like ever.  Does take observation and many times in person to see it..FWIW.  What metric are you using to say he is a net negative defensively this season?  Just comparing his season to Sanos is off by any way you look at it.

In the context of this discussion, yes. The Twins have plenty of coaches to "lead." We're talking about actual performance. Go to fangraphs, look at his defense numbers the last few years. Sure. 

[KirbyDome89]

Just now, KirbyDome89 said:

In the context of this discussion, yes. The Twins have plenty of coaches to "lead." We're talking about actual performance. Go to fangraphs, look at his defense numbers the last few years. It's not just an injured Sano this year vs. Sanchez this year but sure. 

 

[rwilfong86]

9 hours ago, se7799 said:

Leadership is nonsense?  That's a heck of a take...not one I've heard....like ever.  Does take observation and many times in person to see it..FWIW.  What metric are you using to say he is a net negative defensively this season?  Just comparing his season to Sanos is off by any way you look at it.

Sanchez has more playoff wins in Target Field than the Twins do, maybe he can share some of that knowledge. And you're correct, comparing Sano and Sanchez is as inaccurate as comparing Sano and David Ortiz. 

[TheLeviathan]

Oh sweet! A new thread where we naively pretend teams don't work under budget constraints.

I, for one, fault our FO most for their expedited cloning failures and long history of limited time travel.

[cheeseheadgophfan]

On 5/20/2022 at 9:12 AM, LewFordLives said:

For those happy the Twins unloaded Donaldson.....he currently has a WAR of 1.7, which is more than Urshela, Sanchez, and Correa combined.

And here's a perfect example of why, in my opinion, WAR is a ridiculous stat.  Hmmmmmm wonder if the Yanks would trade Donaldson for Correa????   

What part of Sanchez's defense THIS SEASON has been poor?  He looks like just fine to me.  

Urshela is what he is.....good 3B, average to below average bat.....but what others have mentioned, dumping Donaldson was worth it.  The atmosphere on the team this year seems night and day compared to last year, and I don't think it's just the winning, and Urshela is a big part of that.  He's a glue guy.  Everyone loves him.  Yankee teammates loved him.  Adding him (and Correa) who both seem like leaders and great teammates (and subtracting Donaldson's pouting and bitching) makes a difference.  Anyone who says leadership and attitudes don't matter in baseball, has never spent much time in a dugout.  

[KirbyDome89]

41 minutes ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

And here's a perfect example of why, in my opinion, WAR is a ridiculous stat.  Hmmmmmm wonder if the Yanks would trade Donaldson for Correa????   

What part of Sanchez's defense THIS SEASON has been poor?  He looks like just fine to me.  

Urshela is what he is.....good 3B, average to below average bat.....but what others have mentioned, dumping Donaldson was worth it.  The atmosphere on the team this year seems night and day compared to last year, and I don't think it's just the winning, and Urshela is a big part of that.  He's a glue guy.  Everyone loves him.  Yankee teammates loved him.  Adding him (and Correa) who both seem like leaders and great teammates (and subtracting Donaldson's pouting and bitching) makes a difference.  Anyone who says leadership and attitudes don't matter in baseball, has never spent much time in a dugout.  

So because Correa had a slow start and just missed 2 weeks, WAR is a ridiculous stat?

He's caught what, 14-15 games this year? Yeah, it's looked better, but the defensive reputation that followed him here was earned, and it's based on a much larger sample of games. Maybe he's completely turned things around, or maybe he's just put together a decent couple weeks. It seems early to start preparing crow. 

What are you using that says Urshela is a solidly above average 3B? 

Any player interviews to substantiate your claim? How about staff comments, or even an anecdotal run in? It's almost comical at this point that Donaldson (after leaving of course) has become the poster child for what went wrong last year. A certain TD writer continues to fan these flames, so I guess this is what we have to look forward to in any thread involving the aforementioned players. 

[KirbyDome89]

2 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

A new thread where we naively pretend teams don't work under budget constraints.

Can I come too?

[cheeseheadgophfan]

58 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

So because Correa had a slow start and just missed 2 weeks, WAR is a ridiculous stat?

He's caught what, 14-15 games this year? Yeah, it's looked better, but the defensive reputation that followed him here was earned, and it's based on a much larger sample of games. Maybe he's completely turned things around, or maybe he's just put together a decent couple weeks. It seems early to start preparing crow. 

What are you using that says Urshela is a solidly above average 3B? 

Any player interviews to substantiate your claim? How about staff comments, or even an anecdotal run in? It's almost comical at this point that Donaldson (after leaving of course) has become the poster child for what went wrong last year. A certain TD writer continues to fan these flames, so I guess this is what we have to look forward to in any thread involving the aforementioned players. 

You're the one who used WAR with such a small sample size....that's why it's ridiculous.

Are you saying that Urshela is not a "good" third-baseman?  That's all i said.

Donaldson has started 2 fights today with the Sox......just sayin'.....he's a douche.  How's that for an anecdote?  

[KirbyDome89]

9 minutes ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

You're the one who used WAR with such a small sample size....that's why it's ridiculous.

Are you saying that Urshela is not a "good" third-baseman?  That's all i said.

Donaldson has started 2 fights today with the Sox......just sayin'.....he's a douche.  How's that for an anecdote?  

I haven't used it once in this thread. You claimed it was a ridiculous stat; what about it is so ridiculous? 

I'm saying on paper he's average. If that's your version of "good," then cheers. 

Ah, more of that top notch analysis that seems to be infecting this site. Bravo. 

[cheeseheadgophfan]

26 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I haven't used it once in this thread. You claimed it was a ridiculous stat; what about it is so ridiculous? 

I'm saying on paper he's average. If that's your version of "good," then cheers. 

Ah, more of that top notch analysis that seems to be infecting this site. Bravo. 

I thought you were the one who referenced WAR, in regard to Donaldson's being better than Correa, Urshela, and Sanchez combined.......my bad.

Thanks for the cheers.  Enjoying a good Bloody Mary as I type....

You asked for anecdotes, not analysis.....I gave you one from TODAY!!!   You want more?  How about his feud with Cole?  How about his feud with Giolito?  How about getting ejected after hitting a HR?  Just to name a few......

[tarheeltwinsfan]

18 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

Wants to win, knows he's good. Yeah, his swagger fits better with the Yankees than the Twins.

One does not have to "swagger" to win. It's about team rather than self.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

5 hours ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

And here's a perfect example of why, in my opinion, WAR is a ridiculous stat.  Hmmmmmm wonder if the Yanks would trade Donaldson for Correa????   

What part of Sanchez's defense THIS SEASON has been poor?  He looks like just fine to me.  

Urshela is what he is.....good 3B, average to below average bat.....but what others have mentioned, dumping Donaldson was worth it.  The atmosphere on the team this year seems night and day compared to last year, and I don't think it's just the winning, and Urshela is a big part of that.  He's a glue guy.  Everyone loves him.  Yankee teammates loved him.  Adding him (and Correa) who both seem like leaders and great teammates (and subtracting Donaldson's pouting and bitching) makes a difference.  Anyone who says leadership and attitudes don't matter in baseball, has never spent much time in a dugout.  

Leadership does matter in dugouts and in foxholes. I agree cheesehead.

[TheLeviathan]

My concern with Donaldson was how brittle he is.  The personality didn't bother me until today.

 

https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2022/05/21/benches-clear-in-new-york-after-josh-donaldson-allegedly-made-a-racist-comment-toward-tim-anderson/

[DocBauer]

On 5/20/2022 at 8:14 AM, nicksaviking said:

The Twins have had a pretty nice long run of really useful utility infielders, and I still think Urshela could join that group. I think his offense was likely aided by Yankee Stadium (.824 career OPS at Yankee Stadium, .697 OPS on the road), but I think he's still a much better hitter than what we've seen.

As for Sanchez, his defensive disaster rating was highly overstated; he's nowhere near as bad behind the plate as advertised. But of course Yankee fans are prone to exaggeration. 

Now I didn't look at splits, good for you to take the time and look that up. Good information. He certainly wouldn't be the only hitter to benefit from playing in Yankees stadium. And I may be wrong, but I was thinking Yankee stadium playing better for LH hitters? He has had a slow downgrade from 2019 to 2020 to 2021. But as I stated, even his 2021 wasn't far below league average. I don't know how "good" he can hit, but I agree with you that he's better than this year has shown thus far, hence at least SOME optimism he's been better lately. Maybe heating up?

I also agree that ultimately, he may indeed be best as a utility player. And how long he remains a Twin is hard to predict, especially if the bat comes around. Not to mention if and when Lewis is back up and filling at 3B. And what if Miranda gets things figured out in the near future? And down the road, maybe as early as 2023, what about Steer and Julien? But I'm getting ahead of myself. I think Urshela is a good glove, potentially versatile player with a better bat than he's shown that can is very useful, at least for 2022.

Also agree on Sanchez. I admit I just didn't know what to expect, but had real trepidation. But he's sure looked at least average to me defensively so far. He's even called a few low scoring games that give me hope. I guess the one thing I didn't say, which someone else pointed out, if the new life in his bat is really coming alive, will he be pricing himself out of returning to the Twins in 2023? Of course, the FO may wish to look in a different direction come 2023 anyway. But I never expected to actually consider a "want" or at least be OK with Sanchez back next year.

Good stuff.

[CRF]

46 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

My concern with Donaldson was how brittle he is.  The personality didn't bother me until today.

 

https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2022/05/21/benches-clear-in-new-york-after-josh-donaldson-allegedly-made-a-racist-comment-toward-tim-anderson/

If Donaldson really did say, what he was reported by the White Sox to have said, he won't have anyone on the Yankees sticking up for him. It'll be interesting to see what develops with this story. This is just another example of his abrasive personality and what a "great" guy he is. Sure, he's had some good seasons, but he's also got a well deserved rep. There's a reason he's been on six different teams in 12 years. I couldn't wait to see him gone from here and was elated when he got traded to NY. He won't last long there either.  

[Squirrel]

31 minutes ago, CRF said:

If Donaldson really did say, what he was reported by the White Sox to have said, he won't have anyone on the Yankees sticking up for him. It'll be interesting to see what develops with this story. This is just another example of his abrasive personality and what a "great" guy he is. Sure, he's had some good seasons, but he's also got a well deserved rep. There's a reason he's been on six different teams in 12 years. I couldn't wait to see him gone from here and was elated when he got traded to NY. He won't last long there either.  

He admitted to saying it

[ashbury]

27 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

He admitted to saying it

If only it were as simple as that.   Anderson and Donaldson both have significant roots in Alabama.  I can only begin to imagine the subtext behind each comment.  Someone needs to publish a transcript of Donaldson's remarks to the press, complete with footnotes for my understanding.   And the footnotes would need footnotes.

[Rosterman]

Well, it was purely a salary dump. Hoping Miranda gets his hitting act together and becomes our third abseman of the future.

Yankees have to be a bit peeved that Rortvedt was damaged goods.

[cheeseheadgophfan]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

If only it were as simple as that.   Anderson and Donaldson both have significant roots in Alabama.  I can only begin to imagine the subtext behind each comment.  Someone needs to publish a transcript of Donaldson's remarks to the press, complete with footnotes for my understanding.   And the footnotes would need footnotes.

 

How could he think this would be taken as a joke when they were already beefing with each other over a slide into 3rd base last week?  As I've said repeatedly, Donaldson is a douche bag.....

 

[ashbury]

32 minutes ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

How could he think this would be taken as a joke when they were already beefing with each other over a slide into 3rd base last week?  As I've said repeatedly, Donaldson is a douche bag.....

 

It could be as simple as that.