Despite Great First Impression, Royce Lewis Optioned to St. Paul After Tuesday's Game

[rwilfong86]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

So, don't trade for a really good SP? I'm ok with that, but people need to stop complaining they aren't trying to win this year then......He's also a top 20 pitcher so far this year. 

I want to point out their issue hasn't been starting pitching this season, their rotation has been among the best in MLB in ERA.

[chpettit19]

The trade point was made as a proposition for clearing space for Lewis, which was on topic for this thread. We shouldn't have taken it any further than that here. Let's get back on point and that's Lewis being optioned back to AAA.

[rwilfong86]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Anyone would, meaning it isn't close. 

They could throw in another top 15 prospect as well, Miranda was #3 and Sands #14 going into the season. 

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

I want to point out their issue hasn't been starting pitching this season, their rotation has been among the best in MLB in ERA.

So far. Where else are you improving the roster? 3B is either Gio or Lewis or Miranda. 1B is either Arraez or Miranda or ? DH? Surprisingly, Sanchez is now hitting around 20% better than league average. Not one OF needs replacing. If you like Miranda or Lewis at third, you aren't dealing for one of those. People love Arraez, so he's your 1B or DH, I assume. 

That leaves C (where they Twins have one of the better combos in the game, that's how bad C is this year across the league).

[rwilfong86]

6 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

The trade point was made as a proposition for clearing space for Lewis, which was on topic for this thread. We shouldn't have taken it any further than that here. Let's get back on point and that's Lewis being optioned back to AAA.

Royce will be back sooner rather than later.

[nicksaviking]

20 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Montas isn't a free agent until 2024.

Right, I was likely thinking of Manaea.

[chpettit19]

9 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

Royce will be back sooner rather than later.

Do you think that's the plan (comes back when they have to send out a pitcher at the end of the month) or do you expect an injury or something to open a spot?

[rwilfong86]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

So far. Where else are you improving the roster? 3B is either Gio or Lewis or Miranda. 1B is either Arraez or Miranda or ? DH? Surprisingly, Sanchez is now hitting around 20% better than league average. Not one OF needs replacing. If you like Miranda or Lewis at third, you aren't dealing for one of those. People love Arraez, so he's your 1B or DH, I assume. 

That leaves C (where they Twins have one of the better combos in the game, that's how bad C is this year across the league).

First base is kind of the hole right now, Sano isn't a great long term option, Kirilloff has his struggles, Miranda is still learning and has his own struggles and should be sent down to St. Paul. If I am the Twins I get Royce some action at 3rd and consider playing Urshela at 1st (which is painful to say because his defense has been so good at 3rd so far this year.)

[rwilfong86]

Just now, chpettit19 said:

Do you think that's the plan (comes back when they have to send out a pitcher at the end of the month) or do you expect an injury or something to open a spot?

With the way the team has been fighting injuries, I will guess someone else will go down before the end of the month and he will be back. Although I think Miranda should have been sent down instead of Lewis. 

[Steven Buhr]

39 minutes ago, baul0010 said:

The ones who let their foot off the pedal rarely end up in first.  We'll see how well coasting it for a bit works out for them.  I have a feeling we will be looking back after missing out on the playoffs wondering what if!

I agree. Not saying I agree with that approach, just that it has that feel to me. I've always believed games you add in the W column in April and May count just as much as those you rack up the rest of the season. Now is when you step on the gas. Bury the competition, and make THEIR front offices question whether there's any point to "buying" at at the deadline. Make them decide to be sellers as soon as possible.

[nicksaviking]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

So far. Where else are you improving the roster? 3B is either Gio or Lewis or Miranda. 1B is either Arraez or Miranda or ? DH? Surprisingly, Sanchez is now hitting around 20% better than league average. Not one OF needs replacing. If you like Miranda or Lewis at third, you aren't dealing for one of those. People love Arraez, so he's your 1B or DH, I assume. 

That leaves C (where they Twins have one of the better combos in the game, that's how bad C is this year across the league).

Personally, I'm not looking to improve the roster at the minute. I'd only do it to deal with a roster crunch, but I'd be more likely to look to do it from redundant parts (existing and prospect corner OF?) and guys who are already in arbitration (Urshela or Arraez?) I could do a staring pitcher if needed, but to be honest, Winder has been one of my preferred options to keep. Though not untouchable.

[rwilfong86]

4 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Personally, I'm not looking to improve the roster at the minute. I'd only do it to deal with a roster crunch, but I'd be more likely to look to do it from redundant parts (existing and prospect corner OF?) and guys who are already in arbitration (Urshela or Arraez?) I could do a staring pitcher if needed, but to be honest, Winder has been one of my preferred options to keep. Though not untouchable.

Sometimes players coming off the IL are as impactful as a trade. Let's hope that's the case with some of these guys coming back in the next week or so. 

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Personally, I'm not looking to improve the roster at the minute. I'd only do it to deal with a roster crunch, but I'd be more likely to look to do it from redundant parts (existing and prospect corner OF?) and guys who are already in arbitration (Urshela or Arraez?) I could do a staring pitcher if needed, but to be honest, Winder has been one of my preferred options to keep. Though not untouchable.

Which was what I was trying to do....clear up roster space. When you look at the leaderboards, there just isn't a lot of space to "fix" this roster right now. 

[baul0010]

11 minutes ago, Steven Buhr said:

I agree. Not saying I agree with that approach, just that it has that feel to me. I've always believed games you add in the W column in April and May count just as much as those you rack up the rest of the season. Now is when you step on the gas. Bury the competition, and make THEIR front offices question whether there's any point to "buying" at at the deadline. Make them decide to be sellers as soon as possible.

I think 2019 drove it home for me, when the opportunity strikes you need to be ready and take advantage.  Our offense was amazing and we needed pitching.  We didn't help ourselves out at the trade deadline and fizzled in the playoffs again.  There doesn't seem to be a dominant super team.  Let's get us some pitching and take it this year.  Why not us.  Minnesotans deserve nice stuff every once in a while!

[Richie the Rally Goat]

6 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Lol ... posters here don't disappoint.

It surprises me that it wasn't Miranda being sent down first, but that's really the only surprise. But when they activate Larnach, it will be. When both Correa and Larnach were activated, it was always going to be for Miranda and Lewis. Who else was going to be sent down? Tell me who else was going to be sent down who could be sent down? Does Gio have options left? Arraez? Gordon? In two weeks when they have to go down to 13 pitchers and they have to bring up a position player ... who do you think it's going to be? My guess is Lewis will be back up in 2 weeks, playing everywhere. While I don't disagree with some here saying he could get those reps up here, I think there is equal argument for him getting those reps in AAA. Remember, he didn't play for two years. In spite of that, he has been outstanding ... in one position, after two years. I don't really think a lot of rust needs to be shaken off playing elsewhere given his play so far this year, but I do understand the rationale. 

 

Agreed and to add, we’ve seen how quickly perceived depth can be depleted. 3 weeks ago there was a perceived glut of starting pitching, and now it’s looking rather meager again. There’s only 17 fielders on the 40 man roster. Trading Urshela or another DFA type of move to DH force a roster spot for Lewis will make that even more difficult in the certain event of an injury

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Agreed and to add, we’ve seen how quickly perceived depth can be depleted. 3 weeks ago there was a perceived glut of starting pitching, and now it’s looking rather meager again. There’s only 17 fielders on the 40 man roster. Trading Urshela or another DFA type of move to DH force a roster spot for Lewis will make that even more difficult in the certain event of an injury

There's no trades or DFA type moves that need to be made. Miranda needs to go down. Don't know anybody who would argue that. Garlick is a bad defender who only hits against lefties and has an option left. Those are 2 reasonable moves that could be made while putting Lewis at 3B to start over Urshela who has a great glove, but about a .600 OPS. There's no need to reduce any depth to keep Lewis in the majors.

[KirbyDome89]

It's baffling that a team struggling to consistently score runs would decide to send down a high profile prospect who's easily one of their best current players. To boot, we're concerned about PT for Garlick, Urshela, Gordon, or one of a handful of bullpen dart throws had Lewis stayed? "He'll be back up soon enough," isn't a rationale for the decision, it's just blurting out a nonspecific fact that ignores all context. I'd love to see a Venn diagram of those that favored this season as a "development year," and those defending the decision to send Lewis down. The future seems to be now, it'd be nice if the Twins got the memo. 

[Mike Sixel]

15 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

It's baffling that a team struggling to consistently score runs would decide to send down a high profile prospect who's easily one of their best current players. To boot, we're concerned about PT for Garlick, Urshela, Gordon, or one of a handful of bullpen dart throws had Lewis stayed? "He'll be back up soon enough," isn't a rationale for the decision, it's just blurting out a nonspecific fact that ignores all context. I'd love to see a Venn diagram of those that favored this season as a "development year," and those defending the decision to send Lewis down. The future seems to be now, it'd be nice if the Twins got the memo. 

No one is concerned about playing time for bench players, we are concerned how often Lewis plays if he replaces a bench player on the roster. 

And, is anyone really defending it? I think people are open to it not being stupid, proving the FO doesn't care, etc......

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

No one is concerned about playing time for bench players, we are concerned how often Lewis plays if he replaces a bench player on the roster. 

And, is anyone really defending it? I think people are open to it not being stupid, proving the FO doesn't care, etc......

The answer to his playing time is that he takes over for the starter (like Urshela) who then moves to the bench. Lewis jumps to the top of the depth chart and everyone else moves down a spot, including someone to AAA.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

The answer to his playing time is that he takes over for the starter (like Urshela) who then moves to the bench. Lewis jumps to the top of the depth chart and everyone else moves down a spot, including someone to AAA.

I'm good with that....like I said earlier, I'd have sent Miranda down and played Lewis. 

[KirbyDome89]

9 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

No one is concerned about playing time for bench players, we are concerned how often Lewis plays if he replaces a bench player on the roster. 

And, is anyone really defending it? I think people are open to it not being stupid, proving the FO doesn't care, etc......

You don't think he can find enough PT between 3B, 1B, and the OF, or just become a starter at 3B?

Yes Mike, people are on board with this move. 

[rwilfong86]

41 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

It's baffling that a team struggling to consistently score runs would decide to send down a high profile prospect who's easily one of their best current players. To boot, we're concerned about PT for Garlick, Urshela, Gordon, or one of a handful of bullpen dart throws had Lewis stayed? "He'll be back up soon enough," isn't a rationale for the decision, it's just blurting out a nonspecific fact that ignores all context. I'd love to see a Venn diagram of those that favored this season as a "development year," and those defending the decision to send Lewis down. The future seems to be now, it'd be nice if the Twins got the memo. 

With the way the Twins have been hammered with injuries, he may be back by next week so it's not an "nonspecific fact that ignores all context". He got his first opportunity due to injury so it isn't unfathomable that will be the reason for the next. Their issue, as they mentioned on the broadcast today, is they don't want Royce to learn a new position at the Major League level. So if they gave him a week or two playing 3rd (or somewhere else) he will have a little more experience for the next call up. 

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

You don't think he can find enough PT between 3B, 1B, and the OF, or just become a starter at 3B?

Yes Mike, people are on board with this move. 

I clearly stated repeatedly he should be up and playing....

[rwilfong86]

8 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

The answer to his playing time is that he takes over for the starter (like Urshela) who then moves to the bench. Lewis jumps to the top of the depth chart and everyone else moves down a spot, including someone to AAA.

Or play Urshela at first and platoon him there with Arraez, 

[rwilfong86]

5 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

You don't think he can find enough PT between 3B, 1B, and the OF, or just become a starter at 3B?

Yes Mike, people are on board with this move. 

Again, their issue, as Dick and LaTroy mentioned on the broadcast today, is they don't want Royce to learn a new position at the Major League level. 

[KirbyDome89]

1 minute ago, rwilfong86 said:

With the way the Twins have been hammered with injuries, he may be back by next week. Their issue, as they mentioned on the broadcast today, is they don't want Royce to learn a new position at the Major League level. So if they gave him a week or two playing 3rd (or somewhere else) he will have a little more experience for the next call up. 

It's already been pointed out this FO has been fine with lesser players learning other positions at the major league level. Even if it's only a week, those games matter just as much as any other. Idc if it's KC and Detroit, handicapping yourself misses the mark. 

[rwilfong86]

1 minute ago, KirbyDome89 said:

It's already been pointed out this FO has been fine with lesser players learning other positions at the major league level. Even if it's only a week, those games matter just as much as any other. Idc if it's KC and Detroit, handicapping yourself misses the mark. 

Last year they played guys in completely different positions due to necessity, they had pretty run out of outfielders so that's why guys like Refsnyder and Gordon who were infielders received a lot of time in the Outfield. That isn't how you want players to learn, but in a lost season where they were out of it by June 1, they didn't have anytime to lose. 

[chpettit19]

10 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

Again, their issue, as Dick and LaTroy mentioned on the broadcast today, is they don't want Royce to learn a new position at the Major League level. 

Royce has played 3B many times in his life. He played 3B in HS until his senior year. He played it in the AFL. He's played 109 professional innings at 3B. If the plan is to call him back up anytime soon an extra 27 innings or whatever he gets at AAA isn't going to be the difference maker. Which to me makes me think they don't plan to see him up again anytime soon. And that's my biggest problem with this. Him going down to learn LF is the only thing that makes sense to me since he only has 54 OF innings and those were all in CF (although he looked great there). So the plan seems to be putting him in AAA until somebody else gets hurt. That's not a winning plan to me. If Urshela goes down today do they move Miranda back across and let him continue to get sliced and diced by major league arms? If so I'd tip my cap to their dedication, but if the move would be to put Lewis over there he should be there today.

[rwilfong86]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

Royce has played 3B many times in his life. He played 3B in HS until his senior year. He played it in the AFL. He's played 109 professional innings at 3B. If the plan is to call him back up anytime soon an extra 27 innings or whatever he gets at AAA isn't going to be the difference maker. Which to me makes me think they don't plan to see him up again anytime soon. And that's my biggest problem with that. Him going down to learn LF is the only thing that makes sense to me since he only has 54 OF innings and those were all in CF (although he looked great there). So the plan seems to be putting him in AAA until somebody else gets hurt. That's not a winning plan to me. If Urshela goes down today do they move Miranda back across and let him continue to get sliced and diced by major league arms? If so I'd tip my cap to their dedication, but if the move would be to put Lewis over there he should be there today.

That may be possible, they could end up asking Larnach to try to play some first base, who knows? The thought of Miranda on this roster and in the lineup when I go to the game in Kansas City Saturday after seeing Royce hit that grand slam in person last Friday at Target Field makes me wanna vomit. ?

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, rwilfong86 said:

That may be possible, they could end up asking Larnach to try to play some first base, who knows? The thought of Miranda on this roster and in the lineup when I go to the game in Kansas City Saturday after seeing Royce hit that grand slam in person last Friday at Target Field makes me wanna vomit. ?

But that would go against the idea of not having guys learn a new position on the fly in the bigs since Larnach has never played 1B in a professional game.

I'm not arguing with you or anything. I'm mostly just trying to figure out a way to make this move make sense.