Despite Great First Impression, Royce Lewis Optioned to St. Paul After Tuesday's Game

[Squirrel]

Lol ... posters here don't disappoint.

It surprises me that it wasn't Miranda being sent down first, but that's really the only surprise. But when they activate Larnach, it will be. When both Correa and Larnach were activated, it was always going to be for Miranda and Lewis. Who else was going to be sent down? Tell me who else was going to be sent down who could be sent down? Does Gio have options left? Arraez? Gordon? In two weeks when they have to go down to 13 pitchers and they have to bring up a position player ... who do you think it's going to be? My guess is Lewis will be back up in 2 weeks, playing everywhere. While I don't disagree with some here saying he could get those reps up here, I think there is equal argument for him getting those reps in AAA. Remember, he didn't play for two years. In spite of that, he has been outstanding ... in one position, after two years. I don't really think a lot of rust needs to be shaken off playing elsewhere given his play so far this year, but I do understand the rationale. 

 

[Alex Schieferdecker]

Lewis will come back soon enough with more experience at other positions.

Folks should calm down a bit.

[Trov]

If Miranda did not look lost at the plate right now, and Lewis was not raking for a struggling offense I would be okay with the decision.  However, right now we have little to no offense to speak of and Lewis has been on of the bright spots in that line up over his short time here.  Sure, he may start to struggle, but I am not a fan of this move at all.  If the reports are accurate he is going to play different spots down in AAA, it better be with a plan of bringing him back up after a couple weeks, but he really could do that at MLB level.  

With Miranda doing nothing at this level but staying up, when Lewis can play the exact same spots, it sends a poor message in my mind.  It is not like Lewis hits have been lucky, he is hitting solid line drives, and even some outs were crushed.  

[Squirrel]

41 minutes ago, Swing Batter-Batter said:

Looking at comparable "small sample sizes", one could easily conclude that, Miranda should have been sent down instead of Lewis.

I think Miranda will go down when they activate Larnach. And in two weeks (well, less than now), they have to bring their pitchers down to 13 and then add a position player. My hunch is, they've given Lewis a plan ... play all over the field and he will be back up to play out the rest of the season. I think they've already discounted Kirilloff in their plans this year and now it's Lewis. 

[GNess]

Noting the comments I too don't understand how this helps the 2022 Twins? The Twins put Arraez at 1B and Gordon. all over the field despite their lacking real experience in those positions. But Royce Lewis with all his obvious talent has to return to the minors to gain experience? This may have been their plan, but it wasn't consistent with their other actions, which indicates another agenda is likely at work here.

[JDubs]

I get this is kinda disappointing, but folks here are acting like we just DFA'd Derek Jeter instead of sending back down a guy who hasn't played in 2 years and who played well for 11 games. Remember when everyone was so sure we'd lost a perennial allstar in Badoo? Plenty of dudes come up and have a good two weeks and then never do anything ever again. There's nothing crazy about saying a dude his age still needs some regular work in the minors when playing time in the bigs wouldn't necessarily be guaranteed.

[stringer bell]

I submit that if Lewis stayed, the guy to go would be ........Celestino, and he's hitting for a higher average than Royce. The Twins have a short-term first base problem and I wouldn't be surprised if Curtis Terry is brought up to fill the RH half of that problem. I'm pretty sure if there was room on the 40-man, it would already be done. The place for Lewis to find playing time with Correa being activated is in the outfield, I think. If Buxton is the half-time CF, Lewis could take the other half, but where does that leave Celestino? Lewis' history in other defensive positions is all from his time in the AFL, correct? 

[stringer bell]

24 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I think Miranda will go down when they activate Larnach. And in two weeks (well, less than now), they have to bring their pitchers down to 13 and then add a position player. My hunch is, they've given Lewis a plan ... play all over the field and he will be back up to play out the rest of the season. I think they've already discounted Kirilloff in their plans this year and now it's Lewis. 

I think you're right, but Dick and LaTroy were saying that Larnach might have a short rehab before he rejoins the club. If Miranda is optioned, there is about 10 games total of first base experience, almost all of it in Arraez. I'd really love for Kirilloff to start raking, but the team can't count on that at this point. 

Until the Oakland series, I thought it was a no-brainer that Lewis would be sent down. He was the best offensive player in the two game in Oakland and I started to warm to him becoming a 10th starter on the fly. This isn't an outrage and I don't think this says much about how the front office is viewing this season. I hope Royce is back soon and it's not to replace Correa because of another injury.

[nicksaviking]

So Arraez, Gordon and Sano can learn new positions while at the MLB level, but the exponentially more athletic and talented Lewis can't. 

Also, they signed Correa months ago, why wasn't Lewis given AAA reps at other positions prior to his original call up?

[chpettit19]

47 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Lol ... posters here don't disappoint.

It surprises me that it wasn't Miranda being sent down first, but that's really the only surprise. But when they activate Larnach, it will be. When both Correa and Larnach were activated, it was always going to be for Miranda and Lewis. Who else was going to be sent down? Tell me who else was going to be sent down who could be sent down? Does Gio have options left? Arraez? Gordon? In two weeks when they have to go down to 13 pitchers and they have to bring up a position player ... who do you think it's going to be? My guess is Lewis will be back up in 2 weeks, playing everywhere. While I don't disagree with some here saying he could get those reps up here, I think there is equal argument for him getting those reps in AAA. Remember, he didn't play for two years. In spite of that, he has been outstanding ... in one position, after two years. I don't really think a lot of rust needs to be shaken off playing elsewhere given his play so far this year, but I do understand the rationale. 

 

Why not send Miranda down now and wait until you actually know when Larnach is coming back before you send the better player down? What if Larnach isn't ready to come back until May 27th? That's 2 days before they need to jettison a pitcher. At that point wouldn't you jettison the pitcher on the 27th and not have to send Lewis down at all? 

I don't understand the rationale at all. Lewis is better than Miranda right now. There's no question about that. Why send down the better player? I fail to see that rationale.

[Minderbinder]

You don't forget how to play 3rd base.  I hoped they'd let Royce play third every day and send Miranda down to regain his form.  In any case, Royce will be back by September.

[Major League Ready]

56 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Lol ... posters here don't disappoint.

It surprises me that it wasn't Miranda being sent down first, but that's really the only surprise. But when they activate Larnach, it will be. When both Correa and Larnach were activated, it was always going to be for Miranda and Lewis. Who else was going to be sent down? Tell me who else was going to be sent down who could be sent down? Does Gio have options left? Arraez? Gordon? In two weeks when they have to go down to 13 pitchers and they have to bring up a position player ... who do you think it's going to be? My guess is Lewis will be back up in 2 weeks, playing everywhere. While I don't disagree with some here saying he could get those reps up here, I think there is equal argument for him getting those reps in AAA. Remember, he didn't play for two years. In spite of that, he has been outstanding ... in one position, after two years. I don't really think a lot of rust needs to be shaken off playing elsewhere given his play so far this year, but I do understand the rationale. 

 

Congratulations on actually thinking through the options before coming to an opinion.  You even realized there were other inevitable moves.  Miranda’s reassignment is coming soon unless he gets it together very quickly.  Who should we send down when all of the necessary moves are complete?  Arraez is not going anywhere?  Should we release Urshela? That’s not happening.  How about Celestino?  If anyone has earned the right to stay it’s Celestino.  Sending Gordon down at this point would be a real slap in the face and he is the most versatile bench player we have.  Are we going to keep Larnach down?  This move is not even a little surprising when you consider the alternatives and the fact that Lewis will be our SS soon enough and continuing to play SS is best for him and the team.  

[Steve Lein]

Uhhhhh... okay?

Made this joke on Twitter after his homerun yesterday:

Time to get your outfield glove ready, Royce Lewis. When Carlos Correa comes back, he's going to need to borrow it...

What this says to me, is Royce is definitely a shortstop in the Twins eyes, which is a great development. OR, he's going down to play some other positions instead of being thrown into that fire at the MLB level.

Either way, this move is also extremely disappointing given how he has performed. 

[chpettit19]

37 minutes ago, JDubs said:

I get this is kinda disappointing, but folks here are acting like we just DFA'd Derek Jeter instead of sending back down a guy who hasn't played in 2 years and who played well for 11 games. Remember when everyone was so sure we'd lost a perennial allstar in Badoo? Plenty of dudes come up and have a good two weeks and then never do anything ever again. There's nothing crazy about saying a dude his age still needs some regular work in the minors when playing time in the bigs wouldn't necessarily be guaranteed.

So send him down before he has the chance to be bad? He's not currently bad so that doesn't make much sense. Nobody is saying he's guaranteed to be great for the rest of his career, but currently he's one of the 3 or 4 best players on the team while they have another top prospect who is currently bad that they left on the team. Why wouldn't playing time in the bigs be guaranteed now? He's one of your best players. Buxton is sitting or DHing multiple games a series. Gordon isn't lighting up scoreboards. Urshella isn't either. Arraez doesn't hit against lefties. They've been DHing their catchers. There are plenty of ABs available on a team that isn't scoring many runs at all for one of the few guys that are hitting at the moment.

[Nashvilletwin]

Question for my fellow TDers: if the FO is confident that Correa will be here throughout 2022 and believes there is a reasonable probability that he will be with the Twins in ‘23 and possibly ‘24, where is Lewis’s best position?

Choices:

3B - currently held by Urshela with Miranda slotted as the long term solution. 
1B - really wide open given Sano is likely done, Arraez is a misfit, and the true heir apparent, Kiriloff, has seemingly big issues. But would Lewis’s raw talents be wasted there?
Corner OF - currently occupied by Kepler, Larnach, and Celestino - all of whom have been producing more or less.

My take is that if your best prospect’s position is taken by essentially your best overall player, then you find the second best position that will maximise long term success for that prospect. Period. If someone else needs to change positions (Miranda, Larnach) or ultimately be traded (Urshela, Kepler), then you do what must be done to make Lewis successful. Lewis’s development and long term home are the priorities over all those other players.

Don’t fret. Lewis will be back relatively soon and he, Buxton, Polanco, and, if we are lucky, Correa will be the core of this ball club for the next several years.  That will be one awesome core.
 

 

[Muppet]

On the radio broadcast last night, I heard Gladden say "People think that when you are 0 for 17, that you are a terrible player. On the contrary, if you are 0-17 that means you are great. That means people believe in you (Miranda dribbles a weak grounder to SS)... Make that 0-18."

Well. At least the Twins still have their great rookie infielder. 

[Muppet]

Also... The Twins are going to really need that slight defensive upgrade they get with Correa back when they are going to score 2 or (now) fewer runs per game. 

[Muppet]

Also... The Twins are going to really need that slight defensive upgrade they get with Correa back when they are going to score 2 or (now) fewer runs per game. 

[chpettit19]

14 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Congratulations on actually thinking through the options before coming to an opinion.  You even realized there were other inevitable moves.  Miranda’s reassignment is coming soon unless he gets it together very quickly.  Who should we send down when all of the necessary moves are complete?  Arraez is not going anywhere?  Should we release Urshela? That’s not happening.  How about Celestino?  If anyone has earned the right to stay it’s Celestino.  Sending Gordon down at this point would be a real slap in the face and he is the most versatile bench player we have.  Are we going to keep Larnach down?  This move is not even a little surprising when you consider the alternatives and the fact that Lewis will be our SS soon enough and continuing to play SS is best for him and the team.  

The options? Isn't sending Miranda down now instead of "soon" an option? Isn't Lewis learning 1B on the fly like they're having Arraez do an option? Or putting Kepler there since he's played 1B before. Isn't sending a pitcher down when Larnach is ready to come back an option? Isn't Buxton, Polanco, Correa, Lewis, Arraez, Larnach, Kepler, Celestino, Urshela, Jeffers, Sanchez, Gordon, Garlick as your top 13 an option? Or if you really don't want to send an arm down before the 29th isn't sending Garlick down when Larnach comes back an option? I notice you left the no defense, short side of a platoon bat out of your list of possible roster moves.

[Muppet]

Just now, Muppet said:

Also... The Twins are going to really need that slight defensive upgrade they get with Correa back when they are going to score 2 or (now) fewer runs per game. 

Whoops. Sorry. Can't delete extra posts. 

[Puckett34]

thats a bummer, but I'm not surprised.

[Steve Lein]

43 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

 If Buxton is the half-time CF, Lewis could take the other half, but where does that leave Celestino? Lewis' history in other defensive positions is all from his time in the AFL, correct? 

Yup.

12 games at 3B, 5 in CF, and 4 at 2B while in the AFL.

There is only 3 other MiLB games in his career where he's spent time at any position other than SS, and 2 of those instances were for half of one game.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Steve Lein

[Riverbrian]

7 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Congratulations on actually thinking through the options before coming to an opinion.  You even realized there were other inevitable moves.  Miranda’s reassignment is coming soon unless he gets it together very quickly.  Who should we send down when all of the necessary moves are complete?  Arraez is not going anywhere?  Should we release Urshela? That’s not happening.  How about Celestino?  If anyone has earned the right to stay it’s Celestino.  Sending Gordon down at this point would be a real slap in the face and he is the most versatile bench player we have.  Are we going to keep Larnach down?  This move is not even a little surprising when you consider the alternatives and the fact that Lewis will be our SS soon enough and continuing to play SS is best for him and the team.  

Garlick has an option. So that would make him an option.

I don't believe Garlick deserves a send down either but, his utilization is limited to short side platoon which isn't as necessary when you have a player who isn't going to be platooned in Lewis. 

If the concern is moving Lewis around to different positions while he learns the league... OK Fair Enough... However, I don't personally agree because the Dodgers do this sort of thing all the time and do so with success.

But OK Fair Enough... Don't move him around to avoid complicating his introduction to the league and protect that innocence. So... then make him static at a different position and let a vet move around instead. They could let Royce play LF consistently in the bigs and use the DH spot (even 1B) to provide playing time for Kepler and Larnach. We don't have players playing well enough to block this.  

There are other options on the other side of this coin that can be thought through as well. ?

In the end... not the end of the world... He's a phone call away but, this is the very thing that I don't want my organization doing. Talking themselves into not letting players who are playing well play.

The reasons for doing this are defensible to a point... the reasons to not do it are stronger in my opinion. I'll be OK but Jeez.  

 

 

[Major League Ready]

15 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

The options? Isn't sending Miranda down now instead of "soon" an option? Isn't Lewis learning 1B on the fly like they're having Arraez do an option? Or putting Kepler there since he's played 1B before. Isn't sending a pitcher down when Larnach is ready to come back an option? Isn't Buxton, Polanco, Correa, Lewis, Arraez, Larnach, Kepler, Celestino, Urshela, Jeffers, Sanchez, Gordon, Garlick as your top 13 an option? Or if you really don't want to send an arm down before the 29th isn't sending Garlick down when Larnach comes back an option? I notice you left the no defense, short side of a platoon bat out of your list of possible roster moves.

You are solely focused on keeping Lewis so you are only considering possible angles with looking at the end game which is they can have 5 bench players.  Sanchez / Arraez and Urshela are obviously not going anywhere.  So, are you going to send down Gordon or Celestino? 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

8 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Garlick has an option. So that would make him an option.

I don't believe Garlick deserves a send down either but, his utilization is limited to short side platoon which isn't as necessary when you have a player who isn't going to be platooned in Lewis. 

If the concern is moving Lewis around to different positions while he learns the league... OK Fair Enough... However, I don't personally agree because the Dodgers do this sort of thing all the time and do so with success.

But OK Fair Enough... Don't move him around to avoid complicating his introduction to the league and protect that innocence. So... then make him static at a different position and let a vet move around instead. They could let Royce play LF consistently in the bigs and use the DH spot (even 1B) to provide playing time for Kepler and Larnach. We don't have players playing well enough to block this.  

There are other options on the other side of this coin that can be thought through as well. ?

In the end... not the end of the world... He's a phone call away but, this is the very thing that I don't want my organization doing. Talking themselves into not letting players who are playing well play.

The reasons for doing this are defensible to a point... the reasons to not do it are stronger in my opinion. I'll be OK but Jeez.  

 

 

Remember the motto of the Alfred E. Newman: "What me worry?" 

[chpettit19]

Just now, Major League Ready said:

You are solely focused on keeping Lewis so you are only considering possible angles with looking at the end game which is they can have 5 bench players.  Sanchez / Arraez and Urshela are obviously not going anywhere.  So, are you going to send down Gordon or Celestino? 

Kyle Garlick. As I mentioned and you again ignored.

But why wouldn't a pitcher be an option? With Bundy back they appear to be putting Winder back in the long relief role. Ober is coming back before Larnach. So they'll have plenty of pitchers. Why wouldn't that be an option?

And, yes, I'm focused on keeping the best players in the majors. Why would anything else be the focus? 

[rv78]

Nothing surprising here with this FO. They value veterans that don't perform over rookies that do. This move proves it. It's comical they won't DFA a veteran player that doesn't produce, I am assuming, because they have millions of dollars tied up with that player, like a Sano, yet they pass over, send down, or just won't commit to a young player that does. If you DFA a player and play a different player that out-performs him isn't the cost still the same? Did Royce get a big raise when he came up to the majors and then get less money when he went back down? Don't think so. If it isn't about service time then they have a lot of explaining to do, since other players, (like Arraez, Gordon, Polonco, Sano) have learned or are learning different positions at the major league level. Lewis is more athletic than any of them but he's not qualified to do what they did or are doing? The comedy duo of Falvey and Levine have struck again. Should we say Buxton 2.0. Laughable! 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

I have enjoyed everyone of these posts. This issue is like a play of light on a baseball diamond's multifaceted surface.  

[tarheeltwinsfan]

PS, I see I am the top poster on this complicated issue. 

[MMMordabito]

2 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

In the end... not the end of the world... He's a phone call away but, this is the very thing that I don't want my organization doing. Talking themselves into not letting players who are playing well play.

This.

The FO sometimes just seems paralyzed by risk adversity.  Things like signing Correa and letting Ryan have Opening Day made me think that was going away.  

They drafted this guy #1 overall with their first pick as an FO.  Character and Athleticism were the key attributes used to sell him as "the guy".  They were obviously right on the character so far, as Lewis showed by handling the dead season and devastating injury in back to back years.  He basically picked up right where he left off in the 2019 AFL.

So now on to athleticism, Lewis isn't at shortstop because that's the only position he can play.  He's there because he's better at it than everyone else.  He's probably better at all the other positions (save pitcher and catcher) than everyone else too.  He doesn't need to dumb it down.