Lewis Optioned

[Riverbrian]

12 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

Edman was drafted as a shortstop out of college, and also started 231 games at SS in the minors. He’s well established as a MLB hitter too.

Yeah but that information isn't helping the point I'm trying to make. ?

[Squirrel]

8 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Yeah but that information isn't helping the point I'm trying to make. ?

In other words, you are just trying troll ... 

[bunsen82]

Rays Chris Archer July 2018 - Meadows and Glasnow

 

This is not conventional but it does occur and  it is done by small to mid market teams that have to continually look at creating value for the organization.  There I found 2 in the last 4 years by teams that were competing for the playoffs.  

[chpettit19]

10 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

Trevor Bauer Cleveland 2019 July trade for Puig, Reyes and Logan Allen July 31 

 

 

To that point in his career Trevor Bauer had an ERA over 4 and an ERA+ of 109. He was no star (yes he'd made the All Star team the season before, but was nowhere near as good the year he got traded). But even if I let you consider him a star he was still in arbitration, not on a $35M deal which is why he was traded to a team that won 75 games that year. They wanted him for the next season. Correa isn't comparable to that, unless you think a bad team is going to try to trade for him for half a season in which they're not contending for the playoffs. And the Indians got 2 major leaguers back in that deal because they were trying to win the World Series and had Shane Bieber, Mike Clevenger, and Carlos Carrasco in their rotation while the Reds were bad and planning for 2020. You're arguing that the Twins are going to trade Correa to a contender for prospects in "AAA or maybe AA." Not at all the same thing.

[bunsen82]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

To that point in his career Trevor Bauer had an ERA over 4 and an ERA+ of 109. He was no star (yes he'd made the All Star team the season before, but was nowhere near as good the year he got traded). But even if I let you consider him a star he was still in arbitration, not on a $35M deal which is why he was traded to a team that won 75 games that year. They wanted him for the next season. Correa isn't comparable to that, unless you think a bad team is going to try to trade for him for half a season in which they're not contending for the playoffs. And the Indians got 2 major leaguers back in that deal because they were trying to win the World Series and had Shane Bieber, Mike Clevenger, and Carlos Carrasco in their rotation while the Reds were bad and planning for 2020. You're arguing that the Twins are going to trade Correa to a contender for prospects in "AAA or maybe AA." Not at all the same thing.

I have no idea who they would be willing to trade him to.  Isn’t having Lewis in AAA already having a cup of coffee doing well similar to Bieber Clevinger and Carracco? It’s teams that have depth or replacements and are willing to reload and rebuild at the same time.  You asked for an All Star I gave you one. I also gave you 2nd.  Also it’s no guarantee Correa is an All Star this year but just like Archer and Bauer  they still have value because of their pedigree.  

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

Rays Chris Archer July 2018 - Meadows and Glasnow

 

This is not conventional but it does occur and  it is done by small to mid market teams that have to continually look at creating value for the organization.  There I found 2 in the last 4 years by teams that were competing for the playoffs.  

Again, Chris Archer had a 106 ERA+ for his career at the time of that trade. He wasn't a star. And the Rays lost their division by 18 games that year after having been below .500 the season before. Neither of the 2 pitchers you've mentioned are anywhere near the player Correa is.

[Riverbrian]

19 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

In other words, you are just trying troll ... 

Yeah but I have nice hair. 

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, bunsen82 said:

I have no idea who they would be willing to trade him to.  Isn’t having Lewis in AAA already having a cup of coffee doing well similar to Bieber Clevinger and Carracco? It’s teams that have depth or replacements and are willing to reload and rebuild at the same time.  You asked for an All Star I gave you one. I also gave you 2nd.  Also it’s no guarantee Correa is an All Star this year but just like Archer and Bauer  they still have value because of their pedigree.  

Well he has a limited no trade clause so that's limiting their options right there. And the question isn't even just who the Twins would be willing to trade him to, but who would want him. Only contenders would want him since he's on a 1 year deal basically (that's your whole premise of why he'll be traded so you can't disagree there).

Bieber could be considered Lewis-esque, sure. But Clevinger was the ace of that staff already and Carrasco had finished 4th in the Cy Young the year before. So, no, that situation isn't even remotely close to the same thing. The Indians traded their #3 or 4 starter for 2 major league outfielders because that was the hole they needed filled that season. According to you the Twins would be trading Correa for AAA pitchers to help in future years. Again, not the same thing.

[bunsen82]

Both player I mentioned have WAR over 20, Correa has a WAR near 35. He only has a WAR of .6 this year so it’s not as if he is the best player in the league at his position or even on the Twins.  They had value because of their past achievements.  I also agree this wouldn’t be conventional, but this isn’t a conventional contract or situation.  This was created due to the lockout Correa changing agents, the Twins creating cash to go after Story, becoming a bridesmaid in that situation and then Correa’s agent contacted the twins Twins for a 1 year deal with insurance for Correa creating it into a 3 year deal.  He was effectively a merc willing to go to the team with the highest offer.  It worked out for both sides.  

[Riverbrian]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Well he has a limited no trade clause so that's limiting their options right there. And the question isn't even just who the Twins would be willing to trade him to, but who would want him. Only contenders would want him since he's on a 1 year deal basically (that's your whole premise of why he'll be traded so you can't disagree there).

Bieber could be considered Lewis-esque, sure. But Clevinger was the ace of that staff already and Carrasco had finished 4th in the Cy Young the year before. So, no, that situation isn't even remotely close to the same thing. The Indians traded their #3 or 4 starter for 2 major league outfielders because that was the hole they needed filled that season. According to you the Twins would be trading Correa for AAA pitchers to help in future years. Again, not the same thing.

The very nature of free agency is a price point that is beyond what the other 29 teams are willing to pay. So... that's a potential hard filter of trading partners. 

[bunsen82]

5 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Well he has a limited no trade clause so that's limiting their options right there. And the question isn't even just who the Twins would be willing to trade him to, but who would want him. Only contenders would want him since he's on a 1 year deal basically (that's your whole premise of why he'll be traded so you can't disagree there).

Bieber could be considered Lewis-esque, sure. But Clevinger was the ace of that staff already and Carrasco had finished 4th in the Cy Young the year before. So, no, that situation isn't even remotely close to the same thing. The Indians traded their #3 or 4 starter for 2 major league outfielders because that was the hole they needed filled that season. According to you the Twins would be trading Correa for AAA pitchers to help in future years. Again, not the same 

Edited May 20, 2022 by bunsen82
Wrong info

[chpettit19]

10 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

Both player I mentioned have WAR over 20, Correa has a WAR near 35. He only has a WAR of .6 this year so it’s not as if he is the best player in the league at his position or even on the Twins.  They had value because of their past achievements.  I also agree this wouldn’t be conventional, but this isn’t a conventional contract or situation.  This was created due to the lockout Correa changing agents, the Twins creating cash to go after Story, becoming a bridesmaid in that situation and then Correa’s agent contacted the twins Twins for a 1 year deal with insurance for Correa creating it into a 3 year deal.  He was effectively a merc willing to go to the team with the highest offer.  It worked out for both sides.  

Is the WAR argument supposed to suggest that those 2 are on the same talent level as Correa? Because he's nearly doubled their WAR despite being in the league 2 fewer seasons. I don't think that argument is saying what you think it's saying.

[Vanimal46]

I want nothing to do with trading Correa this year - as long as we’re in contention for the playoffs. Doesn’t matter if Correa opts out and walks for nothing in return. 

[bunsen82]

57 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Is the WAR argument supposed to suggest that those 2 are on the same talent level as Correa? Because he's nearly doubled their WAR despite being in the league 2 fewer seasons. I don't think that argument is saying what you think it's saying.

That’s not what you asked, you asked have any all stars been traded from competing teams.  I gave you two. Yes Correa is even a better player which means the return should be good. Look both the Guardians and Rays run their organization similar to the Twins so to ignore this as a possibility is rather naive. 

[chpettit19]

20 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

That’s not what you asked, you asked have any all stars been traded from competing teams.  I gave you two. Yes Correa is even a better player which means the return should be good. Look both the Guardians and Rays run their organization similar to the Twins so to ignore this as a possibility is rather naive. 

I already explained why the Bauer trade isn't even remotely similar. They traded a mid-rotation arm that was a clubhouse problem for 2 major leaguers. Those teams do run their teams similar to the Twins, but those players aren't similar to Correa. Archer was broken down and not himself anymore. And they lost their division by 18 games that year and had lost it by 13 the season before. They weren't a competing team in the East. Of course it's a possibility, but that's not what you're claiming. You're suggesting it's more likely that he's traded than that he's not because it isn't likely he picks up his options and you falsely claimed the Twins never let good players leave for nothing. I've disproven every claim you've made. You're more than welcome to predict he's traded this year. You're more than welcome to believe it. But none of the points you've made are based on actual events that have taken place. Have a good night.

[bunsen82]

16 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I already explained why the Bauer trade isn't even remotely similar. They traded a mid-rotation arm that was a clubhouse problem for 2 major leaguers. Those teams do run their teams similar to the Twins, but those players aren't similar to Correa. Archer was broken down and not himself anymore. And they lost their division by 18 games that year and had lost it by 13 the season before. They weren't a competing team in the East. Of course it's a possibility, but that's not what you're claiming. You're suggesting it's more likely that he's traded than that he's not because it isn't likely he picks up his options and you falsely claimed the Twins never let good players leave for nothing. I've disproven every claim you've made. You're more than welcome to predict he's traded this year. You're more than welcome to believe it. But none of the points you've made are based on actual events that have taken place. Have a good night.

Time will tell. I have more than supported my viewpoints. The only player Twins have not traded is May.  Not a key cog or would bring a big haul. I have shown teams have traded very good players even when they were playoff teams. You sure like to change what you expect for proof throughout this.  You set one line then change it and go further out.  I may be wrong I can admit that.  You refuse to acknowledge any possibility they will trade him.  
 

Maybe the twins could pull off something where they get a Bell at first base get a couple reliever and 1-2 high end prospects for Correa and couple mid level prospects.  The team would potentially  be better and the organization long term would potentially be better off.  

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, bunsen82 said:

Time will tell. I have more than supported my viewpoints. The only player Twins have not traded is May.  Not a key cog or would bring a big haul. I have shown teams have traded very good players even when they were playoff teams. You sure like to change what you expect for proof throughout this.  You set one line then change it and go further out.  I may be wrong I can admit that.  You refuse to acknowledge any possibility they will trade him.  
 

Maybe the twins could pull off something where they get a Bell at first base get a couple reliever and 1-2 high end prospects for Correa and couple mid level prospects.  The team would potentially  be better and the organization long term would potentially be better off.  

You have not shown that. You've shown teams trade league average pitchers (106 ERA+) when they aren't playoff teams (you keep suggesting TB were a playoff team when they traded Archer when they were 3rd in their division the year before and that year, a combined 31 games out of first!) or the league average pitcher was the 3rd or 4th best pitcher on their team. That is not even remotely close to trading Carlos Correa. You proved it by showing he has 5 less WAR than both of those 2 pitchers COMBINED in 4 FEWER seasons played.

It is possible they trade him. It is very, very, very, very unlikely they trade him if they're still leading the division, or even close to it, in July. A 6 or 7 for 1 trade with multiple big leaguers and possibly multiple top prospects as well for half a season of Correa to a team that isn't contending and is more likely to be dumping salary than taking on a huge deal?! Man you have a fun imagination.

Oh, and Nelson Cruz on his first deal is a great example of them not trading a star when they were competing for the division and risked losing him for nothing. They traded him for their current #1 pitcher when they were in a lost season so he was clearly worth a pretty good haul the previous chance they had to trade him but didn't because the current season matters to them!

[bunsen82]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

You have not shown that. You've shown teams trade league average pitchers (106 ERA+) when they aren't playoff teams (you keep suggesting TB were a playoff team when they traded Archer when they were 3rd in their division the year before and that year, a combined 31 games out of first!) or the league average pitcher was the 3rd or 4th best pitcher on their team. That is not even remotely close to trading Carlos Correa. You proved it by showing he has 5 less WAR than both of those 2 pitchers COMBINED in 4 FEWER seasons played.

It is possible they trade him. It is very, very, very, very unlikely they trade him if they're still leading the division, or even close to it, in July. A 6 or 7 for 1 trade with multiple big leaguers and possibly multiple top prospects as well for half a season of Correa to a team that isn't contending and is more likely to be dumping salary than taking on a huge deal?! Man you have a fun imagination.

Oh, and Nelson Cruz on his first deal is a great example of them not trading a star when they were competing for the division and risked losing him for nothing. They traded him for their current #1 pitcher when they were in a lost season so he was clearly worth a pretty good haul the previous chance they had to trade him but didn't because the current season matters to them!

Did we have team option on Cruz on his first deal? Just curious and ultimately we continued to sign him until we traded. Your reading comprehension regarding the trade needs help. I said Correa plus prospects. Who knows how many or what the front office wants to achieve. Relief pitching is cheap though.  

 

 

[chpettit19]

7 hours ago, bunsen82 said:

Did we have team option on Cruz on his first deal? Just curious and ultimately we continued to sign him until we traded. Your reading comprehension regarding the trade needs help. I said Correa plus prospects. Who knows how many or what the front office wants to achieve. Relief pitching is cheap though.  

 

 

He was a free agent and was re-signed late in free agency on a 2nd contract. They risked losing him for nothing which is what the Twins would be doing with Correa.

You're right, i did misread that. I apologize. But, why would the Twins trade for Josh Bell if they're so against losing players for nothing? He's a FA after this year so your suggestion is they're so unwilling to lose Correa for nothing that they'd sell him to Washington for half a season of a worse player at the lowest defensive position, some relievers (which you say are cheap to get), and maybe 1 or 2 top prospects while also kicking in multiple prospects to get it done? Why wouldn't they just trade a couple mid level prospects for relievers and keep Correa instead of Bell? The downgrade from Correa to Bell is worth far more than a top prospect and they're still losing Bell at the end of the year. 

 

[bunsen82]

28 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

He was a free agent and was re-signed late in free agency on a 2nd contract. They risked losing him for nothing which is what the Twins would be doing with Correa.

You're right, i did misread that. I apologize. But, why would the Twins trade for Josh Bell if they're so against losing players for nothing? He's a FA after this year so your suggestion is they're so unwilling to lose Correa for nothing that they'd sell him to Washington for half a season of a worse player at the lowest defensive position, some relievers (which you say are cheap to get), and maybe 1 or 2 top prospects while also kicking in multiple prospects to get it done? Why wouldn't they just trade a couple mid level prospects for relievers and keep Correa instead of Bell? The downgrade from Correa to Bell is worth far more than a top prospect and they're still losing Bell at the end of the year. 

 

Their job is to put the best product on the field and plan for the long term future.  So you would trade Correa for 1-2 top end prospects. You have Lewis to fill in for Correa. From the small sample size we saw, Lewis provided similar or maybe even better production than Correa - so your theory on losing at the position isn’t as accurate.  The biggest position on the field to improve would be first base and possibly corner outfield and I do think we need more relief pitching. So if we can then begin using prospects that we would likely lose in a rule V and possibly 1 very good prospect you may be able to pull it off.  It is counterintuitive trading Correa and getting Bell, they may get someone else who has a year or two left on their contract.  Ultimately they want to improve the team and improve the impact prospects in the system while willing to shed some prospects that have value that we will potentially lose.  It is all about roster management and maximizing as much value as possible while appeasing fans, owners and players.

[USAFChief]

14 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Yeah but I have nice hair. 

Dude! TD has a strict no-nudity policy! 

 

Clean it up, pal. 

[Nine of twelve]

23 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm generally not one for "this sends a bad message to future free agents" kind of talk, but if they sign him and then trade him despite being in first place in the division it may actually send a terrible message to future free agents and everyone in the clubhouse. It's not the fan ire they should worry about there, but the player ire.

He has a full no trade clause that kicks in (if I'm remembering correctly) if he picks up his option so the only time they could trade him without his approval is by the deadline and he even has a limited no trade now (again, if I'm remembering correctly). The players all know it's a business, but trading Correa in the middle of a division race would be an awful message to send to the team and I'd think you could kiss any hope of "hometown" discounts for anyone currently on the roster goodbye. That's an awful way to run an organization.

You are remembering correctly. 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/minnesota-twins/carlos-correa-14168/

23 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm generally not one for "this sends a bad message to future free agents" kind of talk, but if they sign him and then trade him despite being in first place in the division it may actually send a terrible message to future free agents and everyone in the clubhouse. It's not the fan ire they should worry about there, but the player ire.

He has a full no trade clause that kicks in (if I'm remembering correctly) if he picks up his option so the only time they could trade him without his approval is by the deadline and he even has a limited no trade now (again, if I'm remembering correctly). The players all know it's a business, but trading Correa in the middle of a division race would be an awful message to send to the team and I'd think you could kiss any hope of "hometown" discounts for anyone currently on the roster goodbye. That's an awful way to run an organization.

I probably agree regarding a trade of Correa. But a, if Lewis is tearing it up in AAA and b, if the Twins could get a good return, improving an area of weakness, then I think a trade would be well received by everyone.

[Squirrel]

21 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

I probably agree regarding a trade of Correa. But a, if Lewis is tearing it up in AAA and b, if the Twins could get a good return, improving an area of weakness, then I think a trade would be well received by everyone.

Then we will not be trading him, because no team will be able to give us a good return. And, imo, if we are contending, no way I entertain trading, even if some team was able to offer a ‘good return’, which I don’t believe there is one. For one, no way Lewis has the experience and talent of Correa, no matter how well he is playing in AAA. He will not get us over the playoff hump. With Correa I think there is a better than good chance of that. And no team can offer us anything good enough, especially a quality piece we might need. Teams who would be trading for a rental are contending teams, and they need those pieces, too. Remember when we thought we could get a good return for Santana? A player of that quality you just are not getting a good return because teams just can’t pay it. The lesson with Santana was we should have kept him one more year and tried to win it and let him walk because we pretty much ended up with nothing for him anyway.

[Nine of twelve]

2 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Then we will not be trading him, because no team will be able to give us a good return. And, imo, if we are contending, no way I entertain trading, even if some team was able to offer a ‘good return’, which I don’t believe there is one. Remember when we thought we could get a good return for Santana? A player of that quality you just are not getting a good return because teams just can’t pay it. The lesson with Santana was we should have kept him one more year and tried to win it and let him walk because we pretty much ended up with nothing for him anyway.

Agree that a trade of Correa is very unlikely, but you never know when someone might be willing to overpay.

[Squirrel]

2 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

Agree that a trade of Correa is very unlikely, but you never know when someone might be willing to overpay.

Possibility and probability in this scenario is just so very, very, very far apart, though, it’s so illogical to me to even entertain the possibility.

[chpettit19]

3 hours ago, bunsen82 said:

Their job is to put the best product on the field and plan for the long term future.  So you would trade Correa for 1-2 top end prospects. You have Lewis to fill in for Correa. From the small sample size we saw, Lewis provided similar or maybe even better production than Correa - so your theory on losing at the position isn’t as accurate.  The biggest position on the field to improve would be first base and possibly corner outfield and I do think we need more relief pitching. So if we can then begin using prospects that we would likely lose in a rule V and possibly 1 very good prospect you may be able to pull it off.  It is counterintuitive trading Correa and getting Bell, they may get someone else who has a year or two left on their contract.  Ultimately they want to improve the team and improve the impact prospects in the system while willing to shed some prospects that have value that we will potentially lose.  It is all about roster management and maximizing as much value as possible while appeasing fans, owners and players.

Trade Correa for 1 to 2 top prospects?! Better be WAY more than that. They got 2 top prospects for Berrios. That's the entire point here, there's no trade they could find that improves the organization in the current and long-term if they're competing this year. You expect Lewis to replace a platinum glove winning SS and put up a 127 OPS+ (Correa's career number)? I spent all offseason suggesting Lewis would be ready early and spent the last few days complaining about them sending him back down, but not even I would think Lewis could replace Correa. You're losing at that position. 

I agree they need more relievers and I absolutely expect them to trade for some. That's not at all the same argument as trading Carlos Correa in the middle of a division race. Trading away an MVP candidate, platinum glove SS and improving 1B or cOF and some relievers is not an upgrade to the current team. It simply isn't. If they trade Carlos Correa in the middle of a division race they're literally saying they will never care about a current season. You cannot replace him on the major league roster with any sort of reasonable trade. You can't get value for him in any trade at the deadline because nobody is going to give up the prospect capital it would take to get him and only contenders will want him so they're not trading people off their major league roster because they're actually trying to win. That's why nobody has ever traded a player like Correa in the middle of a season they're contending for a division title. And nobody ever will.

[bunsen82]

8 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Trade Correa for 1 to 2 top prospects?! Better be WAY more than that. They got 2 top prospects for Berrios. That's the entire point here, there's no trade they could find that improves the organization in the current and long-term if they're competing this year. You expect Lewis to replace a platinum glove winning SS and put up a 127 OPS+ (Correa's career number)? I spent all offseason suggesting Lewis would be ready early and spent the last few days complaining about them sending him back down, but not even I would think Lewis could replace Correa. You're losing at that position. 

I agree they need more relievers and I absolutely expect them to trade for some. That's not at all the same argument as trading Carlos Correa in the middle of a division race. Trading away an MVP candidate, platinum glove SS and improving 1B or cOF and some relievers is not an upgrade to the current team. It simply isn't. If they trade Carlos Correa in the middle of a division race they're literally saying they will never care about a current season. You cannot replace him on the major league roster with any sort of reasonable trade. You can't get value for him in any trade at the deadline because nobody is going to give up the prospect capital it would take to get him and only contenders will want him so they're not trading people off their major league roster because they're actually trying to win. That's why nobody has ever traded a player like Correa in the middle of a season they're contending for a division title. And nobody ever will.

1. Players the Twins are willing to resign they don’t trade away ie Cruz.  We only traded when we weren’t going to resign and the timing was right. 
2. We traded Berrios away with 1 1/3 years left on his contract hence the return.

3. We would be trading Correa away with essentially 2 months left unless he doesn’t opt out which is incredibly slim.  Hence the likely return of 1-2 very good prospects.  
 

I showed you two teams that were competing for division titles or playoffs when the trades were made.  

[chpettit19]

14 hours ago, bunsen82 said:

1. Players the Twins are willing to resign they don’t trade away ie Cruz.  We only traded when we weren’t going to resign and the timing was right. 
2. We traded Berrios away with 1 1/3 years left on his contract hence the return.

3. We would be trading Correa away with essentially 2 months left unless he doesn’t opt out which is incredibly slim.  Hence the likely return of 1-2 very good prospects.  
 

I showed you two teams that were competing for division titles or playoffs when the trades were made.  

Quit saying the Rays were competing for a division title or the playoffs in 2018! They weren't! At the All Star break they were 49-47 while the Yankees were 62-33 and the Red Sox were 68-30. They weren't in the division race. They weren't. Quit saying they were. The Astros were 64-35 and the As were 55-42 and the Ms were 58-39. The Rays had a 5% likelihood of making the playoffs on the day they traded Chris Archer. They'd been under .500 the year before while finishing 13 games out of first. They finished 3rd in the division in 2018 a whopping 18 games out of first and 10 games back of the 2nd place Yankees. Quit suggesting they were competing for a division title when they traded Chris Archer. They weren't. Not to mention Chris Archer had an ERA of 4.31 when he was traded. He'd had an ERA over 4 the previous 2 seasons and lead the league in losses in 2016. Quit comparing Chris Archer to Carlos Correa or the Rays situation in 2018 to the Twins situation in 2022. They aren't comparable. At all.

And we've already gone over Trevor Bauer having been the 3rd or 4th pitcher on that Indians team and having team control left on his deal which meant a bad team was willing to trade for him with the future in mind. Don't compare a #3 or 4 starter to Carlos Correa. Bauer had had 1 season with an ERA below 4 when he was traded. He wasn't a star. He wasn't even an above average pitcher. He was a mid-rotation arm who'd been drafted highly and had a recognizable name. They aren't the same thing. And the contract situation changes things even more. And the Bauer deal made the CURRENT Indians team better that year as it filled 2 outfield spots for their number 3 or 4 starter. These are not the same types of trades you're suggesting the Twins would make with Correa. They just aren't. I'm sorry I asked for All Stars who were traded as you've clearly decided Archer and Bauer are comparable to Correa. They aren't. Those situations aren't. 

The Twins trading prospects for relievers has nothing to do with trading Correa. Trading Correa would be a stand alone deal to a competing team looking to trade nothing but prospects because they're not going to make other positions worse on their major league team to bring in Correa. It's counterintuitive. No rebuilding team is going to trade for Correa since he'd just opt out of his deal or he already has the bad teams on his no trade list. It is possible they trade Correa, yes. To suggest it's likely is a vastly different thing and that's what you've been trying to do.

The Twins are willing to re-sign Correa or have him opt in. You can't separate the Cruz situation like that. It's the same sort of situation. Star hitter on a division leading team that they risk losing. Cruz spent the entire offseason looking at other options. It was by no means a foregone conclusion that he'd be back, but the FO did what literally every other FO in the history of baseball has done and held onto their star while leading a division. 

If the Twins are leading the division at the deadline the chances of them trading Carlos Correa are about 2%. It's possible, yes, but your suggestion that it's the more likely outcome isn't based on anything. There are no similar examples. It's never been done. And I find it hard to believe any owner would ever OK such a deal. Congrats on your beyond bold take and your very impressive confidence in it. But, again, assuming the Twins are still leading the division or within a couple games of the lead at the deadline, you're the one who is going to be disappointed in the decisions the Twins make. They aren't trading a superstar off a division leading team. No team is. Ever.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Back to the topic of optioning Lewis:

Larnach, Miranda, and Gordon are all in today’s Twins lineup.

[jorgenswest]

1 hour ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

Larnach, Miranda, and Gordon are all in today’s Twins lineup.

I am glad Miranda was in the lineup on Friday. His bat was the difference in the game,