Handling Byron Buxton

[Riverbrian]

26 minutes ago, The_Phantom said:

Yes actually you’re right. There is a very “bullyish” attitude here and it comes from *your* condescending tone. That whole post was absurd and argumentative, at best,

 

I responded to String with my explanation of why we don't get the whole story. You responded to that response to String. I responded to your response. I feel the need to point out how we got here. 

 

31 minutes ago, The_Phantom said:

 

All I will respond to is the quote that you bolded. Don’t you believe that that is an issue that there is a game plan before the game and it’s stuck to, no matter what happens on the field?
 

 

I don't have an issue with anything when I lack the information necessary to determine if I should have an issue. 

38 minutes ago, The_Phantom said:

 
What if someone *else* got injured? What if it went deep into extras? Baseball is a very fluid game, and on one hand saying “this is purely precautionary” and the other hand saying “there is no way, no how he is getting in the game because talked about it and we (I) decided that before the game started”. Just sounds like some dishonesty there.

 

Do you honestly not see how you are doing exactly what I said people do? Rocco provides a quote to the Trib and you took that quote, stretched it to your specifications so you can hang him with your interpretation of his words. After awhile... People who get subjected to that sort of thing... Just shut up 

It's like if I said... I'm not leaving the house today and you called your friends to say... What if the roof is on fire and you go on to tell them that I was going to sit in the house while it burns to the ground. 

 

1 hour ago, The_Phantom said:

 
And really, ultimately, we are a paying audience. We are pretty entitled to have an opinion on what we see and what we hear from these guys, who are being paid to perform. It’s a bit of a strange take to act like we’re not and we’re ‘bullying’ high dollar athletes that never read what you or I say. 

 

Yep... that's always the explanation. We are entitled to treat others this way. 

[kydoty]

If he can’t play through it every day, then IL him until he can.  Would you rather him miss nearly half of the remaining games this year or miss 10 to 15 consecutive days so he can play the vast majority of the next four months?  
 

 

[Craig Arko]

I think the key word used in this thread is “entitled.” That says a great deal.

[stringer bell]

I try to look for perspective after a game like this. I was thoroughly upset that Byron Buxton wasn't in the game last night. A day later I'm still upset, but maybe I am understanding the logic of what is being done. As has been mentioned before, we don't have facts and apparently a total explanation isn't forthcoming. I am believing that Byron Buxton is not 100% after injuring his hip running out a ground ball. I believe the Twins are trying to manage the situation by being very careful with their would-be superstar. That is going to include frequent usage as a designated hitter and days off. I do believe the Twins are counseling Buxton to not take too many risks by running into walls or in base running. 

As Squirrel mentioned, this appears to be a compromise--not putting him on the shelf for a stint on the Injured List, but missing time occasionally. Further, his marvelous potential as a force on the bases and his proven ability as one of the very best center fielders in baseball is diminished by not being on the field more than half the time and the Twins and Buxton exercising caution when on the bases--actually IMHO it isn't even caution. Despite the lack of singles and walks, Buxton could easily swipe 40 bases in 120 games, but he's never really tried to study left hander's moves or learned/tried to steal third base. If he was a legitimate threat to do either of those things, he would raise the anxiety of opposing teams (but I digress). 

I want what is best for my favorite team and that would include having Byron Buxton available as often as possible throughout the season. I don't agree with the plan, but if it works, I'll be delighted.

Baldelli has taken heat on this site for sticking with the plan for Buxton (and earlier Correa). Again, I'm not sure if I agree with totally shutting down a player for an entire game no matter what, but we, as fans, tend to get wrapped up with the result of today's game and don't look at the big picture as much as we should. If you are inconsolable after losing a game, don't play baseball. You are going to lose 50-60 games a year no matter what. 

Selfishly, I'd like to see Buxton play at peak health for every remaining game. Maybe what we fans can settle for is having miss less than a dozen more games and play in the field at least three quarters of the time.

[stringer bell]

8 minutes ago, kydoty said:

If he can’t play through it every day, then IL him until he can.  Would you rather him miss nearly half of the remaining games this year or miss 10 to 15 consecutive days so he can play the vast majority of the next four months?  
 

 

Okay. This is the knee and not the hip. So this has been ongoing since the first road trip to Boston before Patriot's Day. I've wondered about the knee since that injury because it was reported that fluid was drained. 

[Nine of twelve]

2 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Specifically what are the incentives in Buck's contract?

Annual MVP Bonuses:
1st: $8M
2nd: $7M
3rd: $6M
4th: $5M
5th: $4M
6th-10th: $3M

Plate Appearances
$500,000 each for 502, 533, 567, 600, 625

(Source: spotrac.com)

[RickOShea]

14 hours ago, stringer bell said:

If the organization wants support from the fans, I would think that they can and should be trusted. I can understand privacy issues to a degree, but beyond that, these are public people. There are daily reports about injuries, why should the team shroud Buxton's status in mystery?

I remember TK saying that he would never give Puckett a day off at home, because fans came to see him play. If fans love what Buxton brings (I think they do), it has to be disappointing seeing him in the dugout chewing seeds, but not playing.

It used to tick me off, when Gardy would invariably give Mauer a Sunday off.  Being a regional team, nothing would upset me more than to bring my kids to a weekend game and Mauer would be running riding the bench.

This entertainment is an  business, built and supported by physical and media attendance.

[High heat]

This is how they are going to handle Royce Lewis!  Once Correa comes off the IL, they will then change course and put Buxton on the IL and move Lewis to CF. 

Just a hunch

[RickOShea]

I would like to know who actually makes the final decision on who plays and who doesn't.  I think it's comical for that a handful of posters have the 'inside knowledge".  If you know for an absolute fact, ok.  If not, then say so.  Too many clueless posters, out there.

[lukeduke1980]

I remain in the camp excited to see Buxton play 110 games.  This might just be what it looks like.  Celestino continues to show competence so it there is probably less hesitancy from management.  

[TeJayDubz]

I might be naïve in saying this, but I'd rather have Buxton in 5/10 games than missing all 10+ on an IL stint if the end result is the same.

The stats speak for themselves, the Twins are better with Buck in the lineup, regardless if he's playing well or not. I'd rather miss a greater percentage of games before the all-star break, than down the stretch when we need him in the dog days of summer. It helps Celestino is playing well on both sides of the ball, and we hold first place in the division. If we start to flounder out there in the next two months, this take of mine becomes a whole lot worse.

Bonus points to whoever gets the partial movie quote I threw in there!

[stringer bell]

14 minutes ago, TeJayDubz said:

I might be naïve in saying this, but I'd rather have Buxton in 5/10 games than missing all 10+ on an IL stint if the end result is the same.

The stats speak for themselves, the Twins are better with Buck in the lineup, regardless if he's playing well or not. I'd rather miss a greater percentage of games before the all-star break, than down the stretch when we need him in the dog days of summer. It helps Celestino is playing well on both sides of the ball, and we hold first place in the division. If we start to flounder out there in the next two months, this take of mine becomes a whole lot worse.

Bonus points to whoever gets the partial movie quote I threw in there!

It's been just about a month since Buxton injured his knee. According to the quote reported by kydoty, it is his knee that has necessitated days off and DH time. Buxton also missed time for a bruised hand (HBP) and hip. What we don't know is what an IL stint would have done--how long he would have been out and whether he would continue to need days off. Knowing that there is an injury that is not totally resolved is more information than I knew yesterday.

[KirbyDome89]

If the knee is flaring up, that'd seem to suggest a usage issue, i.e. playing. Total layman here, but I don't see how it gets better if it's being worked semi-regularly and in a constant cycle of swelling and reducing. To me it feels like an instance of treating the symptoms and not the cause. Fingers crossed there isn't a more nefarious underlying issue here, and it's simply managing discomfort that fades over time, but the fact that the swelling is recurring doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies. 

[TeJayDubz]

1 minute ago, stringer bell said:

It's been just about a month since Buxton injured his knee. According to the quote reported by kydoty, it is his knee that has necessitated days off and DH time. Buxton also missed time for a bruised hand (HBP) and hip. What we don't know is what an IL stint would have done--how long he would have been out and whether he would continue to need days off. Knowing that there is an injury that is not totally resolved is more information than I knew yesterday.

I was personally under the impression that his hip was still bothering him. The fact that it is his knee is worrisome to me, on top of the fact that we as fans were just made aware of that fact. The reason I'm so conflicted is because he's still contributing offensive, and defensively. If his knee is a true issue, it's not so bad that he can't play.

But that also makes me think back to all the times you hear about a player dealing with stuff like that throughout the year, to then get surgery for it in the offseason. I'm thinking of Jorge Polanco at the end of 2020 playing 55/60 games on a bum ankle. 

Maybe the only reason we're putting so much stock into this is because Buck is a glass cannon with serious MVP potential. If this was Gary Sanchez we were talking about, I'm not so sure the speculation would even get this far??

[stringer bell]

20 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

If the knee is flaring up, that'd seem to suggest a usage issue, i.e. playing. Total layman here, but I don't see how it gets better if it's being worked semi-regularly and in a constant cycle of swelling and reducing. To me it feels like an instance of treating the symptoms and not the cause. Fingers crossed there isn't a more nefarious underlying issue here, and it's simply managing discomfort that fades over time, but the fact that the swelling is recurring doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies. 

I agree. It seems to me that we might be seeing a diminished player for most, if not all, of the season. I'm sure the medical professionals have been consulted and I'm sure Buxton's people also have been consulted. 

[KirbyDome89]

53 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

I agree. It seems to me that we might be seeing a diminished player for most, if not all, of the season. I'm sure the medical professionals have been consulted and I'm sure Buxton's people also have been consulted. 

I'm curious as to what degree the limited playing time is a compromise.

It's a heavily incentive laden contract, and I certainly don't blame Buxton for wanting to play and reach those escalators. 

[stringer bell]

16 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I'm curious as to what degree the limited playing time is a compromise.

It's a heavily incentive laden contract, and I certainly don't blame Buxton for wanting to play and reach those escalators. 

You'd think they would have to come to some agreement on how to get him in the game the most. The solution for now is no IL, but rest and DH time. I'm saddened that Buxton isn't causing havoc on the bases, isn't in the field or when he's not in the lineup at all. 

[Jerr]

9 hours ago, The Mad King said:

Remember when he called back just in time for the playoffs? And got beaned in the head? And missed the playoffs? "Protecting" him suggests the team thinks it has control over the universe and it's actions. You send your kids to school and hope nothing happens. Sitting him when he's healthy is no better than him being injured in the first place. If this isn't mismanagement I don't know what is. 

 

 

 

I have to wonder if Buxton is just too soft or doesn't have the heart to go out and play. 

 

[Danchat]

So Buxton admits the only is to play 100 games... so the plan is to only play 77 of the next 127 games (60.6%)? Can't say I'm a fan of this.

[wabene]

I'm sure Buxton just mentioned in an off-handed way a threshold he'd like to pass not taking into account the backlash that might occur.

[mnfireman]

15-8 with, 5-7 without. I'd like to see him play 135 games, so roughly 88-47 with, 11-16 without; 99-63 overall. Could probably win the division even if his games played went down to 125 or 130 at those rates. 

Contusions/bruises are really hard to judge how long the after effects last, he could wake up June 1st and be pain free and play every game the rest of the way, or he might feel it all year and only be able to play 2/3 or 3/4 the rest of the way. Or worse, favoring the knee re-aggravates the hip and he has to be shut down for ??? 

[Riverbrian]

11 minutes ago, wabene said:

I'm sure Buxton just mentioned in an off-handed way a threshold he'd like to pass not taking into account the backlash that might occur.

Yep... The Wolves will be out soon. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

5 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

Annual MVP Bonuses:
1st: $8M
2nd: $7M
3rd: $6M
4th: $5M
5th: $4M
6th-10th: $3M

Plate Appearances
$500,000 each for 502, 533, 567, 600, 625

(Source: spotrac.com)

Hmmmmm.

[heresthething]

IMO Buxton wants to play literally every inning if he could, I've never doubted his willingness but I'm sure with this contract the Twins talked to his team specifically about what they might or perhaps need to do to keep him healthy.  And they are in first place so it's times like these where if they can pull back a little to keep him fresher, especially this early in the season, it seems this is what we're going to get.  The Twins misstepped not being forthright about what's going on, the organization should have learned something from the bilateral leg weakness fiasco.  Glad Rocco provided some explanation today.

[USAFChief]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Yep... The Wolves will be out soon. 

Oh, the irony.

[Riverbrian]

13 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Oh, the irony.

I see what you did there. That's Wild!

[TheLeviathan]

3 hours ago, Jerr said:

I have to wonder if Buxton is just too soft or doesn't have the heart to go out and play. 

 

Nothing about Buxton's mentality is soft or deserves that criticism.

Byron has no control over the fact that his body can't hold up to the rigors of play.  He's clearly a fine tuned athlete and takes his craft seriously, his genetics just betrayed all that talent they bestowed with fragility.

If scheduled sitting is how they get 100 games out of Buxton, fine by me because we've managed to get that exactly once in 8 years.  

[MplsFan]

Good thread and it’s interesting to think about.  What I’ve gotten from Buxton and Baldelli’s quotes is that there’s a plan.  And it’s to get him to 100 games and they’re sticking to the plan.  I guessssss I’m ok with that though it really, really stung not to have him pinch hit in Saturday night’s game especially in the 10th inning when one hit would’ve either tied or won it.  Just feel like you gotta throw anything at it you can to try to win in a situation like that.

[Brock Beauchamp]

5 hours ago, Jerr said:

I have to wonder if Buxton is just too soft or doesn't have the heart to go out and play. 

I'm going to be a bit harsher than is necessary right now but this **** needs to die.

Right now.

Byron has never been anything but "I'm ready, coach" throughout his career. It has been the Twins coaching staff that keeps him off the field because Buxton throws himself out there while injured to his own detriment.

Byron Buxton is perhaps the best baseball player on the planet The only two other people in the mix are Trout and Ohtani.

And Byron is "soft"?

Get out of here,

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Still don’t know what the alternative recovery options are. A 10 day IL stint might not recover it.

for instance my UCL/MCL in my right elbow is on a 3 month recovery plan. Immobilized or not it’s taking 3 months. Might as well use it…