Anyone see anything definitive regarding Paddack's injury yet? Last I saw was that he was getting different recommendations/opinions and that surgery was one of them. They still haven't put him on the IL, but I'd expect that to happen soon. It would really suck if he's back in for another TJ job. 

https://twitter.com/DanHayesMLB/status/1524087083593256961?s=20&t=zitagJQy8_KMzjpb3ZuKfA

 

If he's getting a 2nd opinion, probably means that that initial diagnoses was was TJ.

Yep. This was the concern trading for someone with a partially torn UCL. Not good. 

7 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Yep. This was the concern trading for someone with a partially torn UCL. Not good. 

Another bad move by Falvey. The trade itself was questionable. The timing awful. Now we'll be lucky if we get one decent year out of him and will suffer more losses from the bullpen this year than he will ever make up.

16 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

Another bad move by Falvey. The trade itself was questionable. The timing awful. Now we'll be lucky if we get one decent year out of him and will suffer more losses from the bullpen this year than he will ever make up.

Same for Maeda.

I'm here for the " this front office is bad at their jobs" takes. Despite, you know, actually being good...

18 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

Another bad move by Falvey. The trade itself was questionable. The timing awful. Now we'll be lucky if we get one decent year out of him and will suffer more losses from the bullpen this year than he will ever make up.

He's been pretty damn good for us this year so lets take a breath. He'll be back next June/July and we have him under control the following year.

We all knew he had a torn UCL and really this could happen to any pitcher at any time.

Id expect the front office to look to the trade market sooner than later.

Nate Eovaldi makes the most sense

That's too bad for Paddack. Hopefully we get to see him back on the mound next year even under the worst case scenario.

But I have to be honest, I've gotten a real taste for watching these young pitchers, I liked what I saw from Paddack, but I'm looking forward to soon seeing Woods-Richardson, Canterino, Balazovic, Henriquez or even Sands walking through the newly opened door.

5 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'm here for the " this front office is bad at their jobs" takes. Despite, you know, actually being good...

I'm here for those defending a really questionable trade that a contender just doesn't make.

If it is TJ, the Twins would still have him for at least one season, fully healthy post surgery, assuming no complications/setbacks. That's not ideal considering they're paying Rogers to play in SD this year, but there's time to make up some ground. 

3 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I'm here for those defending a really questionable trade that a contender just doesn't make.

Really curious to hear your thoughts on the Maeda trade. 

Pretty sure we were a contender at that time and also gave up a top 75 prospect for a pitcher with an injured elbow.

You win some and lose some

Don't Forget we also got Brayan Medina!! We won't truly know the full impact of this trade for a long long time lol

2 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I'm here for those defending a really questionable trade that a contender just doesn't make.

Contending teams don't trade relievers for starters? Everyone is praising Rogers for his start this year yet he's still thrown, and thus impacted, half as many innings as Paddack. And then there's Pagan's 8.2 innings and 4 saves. Or was losing Rooker and his .227 BA with 2 HRs as a 27 year old in AAA what you're upset about?

So I guess I'm here for those who care more about the names on the back of the jerseys than the name on the front.

7 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I'm here for those defending a really questionable trade that a contender just doesn't make.

I'm not defending this trade. I'm defending the overall team and results year after year. Last year was the aberration, imo. Even a good front office makes mistakes, like trading Ryan for Cruz.

I totally jinxed him writing about it the other day.  Should have kept my thoughts to myself.

At any rate it was a possibility and in my mind this what the PTNL was for.  Insurance in case he got injured.  The Padre's are going to come out alright on this one.  At least the Twins have Maeda to hold down that spot next year but it does kind of hurt us this year that 6 to 7 man rotation is evaporating really fast. 

Unfortunately no one really looks ready at AAA right now except maybe Smeltzer who imploded the other night.  Sands has been erratic.  Henriquez has been far from lights other than his first outing. Balazovich just started at AAA.  The rest of the guys like SWR or Canterino would need to be added to the 40 man.  So things are getting tight right now.

Just now, Dman said:

I totally jinxed him writing about it the other day.  Should have kept my thoughts to myself.

At any rate it was a possibility and in my mind this what the PTNL was for.  Insurance in case he got injured.  The Padre's are going to come out alright on this one.  At least the Twins have Maeda to hold down that spot next year but it does kind of hurt us this year that 6 to 7 man rotation is evaporating really fast. 

Unfortunately no one really looks ready at AAA right now except maybe Smeltzer who imploded the other night.  Sands has been erratic.  Henriquez has been far from lights other than his first outing. Balazovich just started at AAA.  The rest of the guys like SWR or Canterino would need to be added to the 40 man.  So things are getting tight right now.

Paddack getting surgery clears up a 40 man spot. I feel bad for him. Good luck to him.

7 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Contending teams don't trade relievers for starters? Everyone is praising Rogers for his start this year yet he's still thrown, and thus impacted, half as many innings as Paddack. And then there's Pagan's 8.2 innings and 4 saves. Or was losing Rooker and his .227 BA with 2 HRs as a 27 year old in AAA what you're upset about?

So I guess I'm here for those who care more about the names on the back of the jerseys than the name on the front.

Rogers was way more important to this team's 2022 chances than Paddack and Pagan.

 

Even most of those defending the trade at the time were pointing to the "years of control" rather than actual value. Pagan is a throw in, as is the minor leaguer.

This was all argued at length at the time. For now, I hope surgery proves unnecessary, Paddack recovers quickly, and he pitches well. That'll make the trade less damaging to the 22 Twins.

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Paddack getting surgery clears up a 40 man spot. I feel bad for him. Good luck to him.

Good point!  Yes it would.

6 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Contending teams don't trade relievers for starters? Everyone is praising Rogers for his start this year yet he's still thrown, and thus impacted, half as many innings as Paddack. And then there's Pagan's 8.2 innings and 4 saves. Or was losing Rooker and his .227 BA with 2 HRs as a 27 year old in AAA what you're upset about?

So I guess I'm here for those who care more about the names on the back of the jerseys than the name on the front.

Starter vs. reliever value, ok, valid, but I know we're not counting saves right? Pagan is rocking a 1.73 WHIP and has been worth negative fWAR so far this year, if we're putting stock in measuring a pitcher's value that way. The dude is a time bomb out there and eventually he won't be able to wiggle out of allowing 2 baserunners every 9th inning. 

Lemme guess. Paddack was slated to be on the front cover of the Twins Magazine next month

32 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I'm here for those defending a really questionable trade that a contender just doesn't make.

I'm here to blame Meghan Markle

3 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Rogers was way more important to this team's 2022 chances than Paddack and Pagan.

 

Even most of those defending the trade at the time were pointing to the "years of control" rather than actual value. Pagan is a throw in, as is the minor leaguer.

This was all argued at length at the time. For now, I hope surgery proves unnecessary, Paddack recovers quickly, and he pitches well. That'll make the trade less damaging to the 22 Twins.

You seem to be confusing your predicted results of the season with importance. To this point in the season Paddack has been more useful than Rogers would have been and the only game you can point to with any certainty and say not having Rogers "damaged" the 22 Twins is the 9th inning blown lead by Duffey early on. Beyond that all you're saying is that you predicted Rogers would be really good and Paddack and the Twins' pen wouldn't be. To this point those predictions would be wrong as Paddack has been good and the pen has more than held it's own. There is no other basis to say Rogers was, or is, "way more important to this team's 2022 chances than Paddack and Pagan."

11 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Starter vs. reliever value, ok, valid, but I know we're not counting saves right? Pagan is rocking a 1.73 WHIP and has been worth negative fWAR so far this year, if we're putting stock in measuring a pitcher's value that way. The dude is a time bomb out there and eventually he won't be able to wiggle out of allowing 2 baserunners every 9th inning. 

Pagan has allowed a total of 5 hits, that is hardly a time bomb.

12 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Starter vs. reliever value, ok, valid, but I know we're not counting saves right? Pagan is rocking a 1.73 WHIP and has been worth negative fWAR so far this year, if we're putting stock in measuring a pitcher's value that way. The dude is a time bomb out there and eventually he won't be able to wiggle out of allowing 2 baserunners every 9th inning. 

I know we're not arguing relief pitcher WAR, right? I'm not suggesting Pagan is the 9th inning answer or even a main cog in the pen for the rest of the season. Simply pointing out that the arguments of the trade being ridiculous at the time and this injury confirming it aren't based on anything other than preference for Rogers. It's ok if some people just admit that the FO is as terrible as they claim and they actually "won" that trade to this point and it will be very, very hard for Rogers to do anything this season to make the trade itself a bad one. And if Pagan continues to work some sort of weird magic trick most times he's out there and Paddack doesn't need TJ the trade will be a steal for 2022 as well.

7 minutes ago, old nurse said:

Pagan has allowed a total of 5 hits, that is hardly a time bomb.

While allowing nearly 2 runners per inning. His current "success rate," is unsustainable.

Ill leave this here as well, Rogers is absolutely bound to come down to earth.

Although I'm not sure the individuals arguing the Twins lost this trade will understand the graphic 

Expect the fact that his medical records showed this as a possibility which is why the trade included a PTBNL that turned out to be much more of a prospect than one would have guessed.

And I don't understand all the talk about going out and looking for another trade.  We started the season with six starting pitchers and Wilder has proven to be better than we could have hoped for.  So that makes seven.  If Paddack is in fact going to be out for a year or so, we are back to six.  Even if one of the six gets injured, or doesn't perform, we still have five.  I doubt any of the other top prospects are really ready to pitch for the Twins this year, but there is a real chance Maeda will be by August?  So I don't see the need for a trade.

Fingers crossed this ends up on the Correa end of the scale where a possible broken bone ends up being a contusion

1 hour ago, bighat said:

Same for Maeda.

At least we got a career year from Maeda in 2020. Unlikely Paddock will ever give us a season like that.

1 hour ago, Tim said:

He's been pretty damn good for us this year so lets take a breath. He'll be back next June/July and we have him under control the following year.

We all knew he had a torn UCL and really this could happen to any pitcher at any time.

Id expect the front office to look to the trade market sooner than later.

Nate Eovaldi makes the most sense

One year of an All-Star closer and $6 million is still worth more than 1.5 seasons of unknown starting pitching. I would count on him zero for next year. Anything he gives us is a bonus. Maybe he will be good in 2024.

Sure, all starters are injury risks. His risk was known to be much higher. We gambled and lost badly.

Despite this, starting pitching takes a back seat to desperately needing a closer (which is why this was a bad trade).