Twins 9, Rays 3: Winder Dominates in First Start, Twins Take Series from Rays

[puckstopper1]

18 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Leg (knee) soreness or something similar. He sat out a few games and then had to be replaced during Saturday's game. If he can heal, rest, recover in the warmth of the Fort Myers sunshine, Sano could return in two weeks months a new man.

FIFY

[tony&rodney]

24 minutes ago, puckstopper1 said:

FIFY

A little sunshine and warmer weather heals many ills; keep the faith for the big man.

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

1 hour ago, jimbo92107 said:

Note: We have now seen Trevor Larnach gun down two guys trying to take home on his arm. Can Kirilloff throw like that? 

My memory from reading prospect reports before Larnach came up is that they portrayed him as a pretty one-dimensional bat-first guy. I think Fangraphs might have called him "sluggish" in the outfield.

There's definitely some selection bias here because I'm watching highlights, not full games, but in those limited views his arm, reactions in the outfield, and speed (at least as a baserunner) all seem perfectly fine and playable.

[jmlease1]

1 hour ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Sanchez has been much better than advertised behind the plate so far.

seriously. based on Yankees fans, I thought we were getting The Butcher of Cairo back there, and while I wouldn't call him great, he hasn't had any of those "oh god get him out of there" games either. Defensively, he's been no worse than Garver, really.

[terrydactyls]

As a supporter of the current front office, I am ecstatic with the results this far.  Great starting pitching, brilliant defense, solid hitting, and the appearance of a clubhouse happy to be playing together.  Now my question:  Where did all the Falvey/Levine haters go?

[jimbo92107]

Josh Winder was marvelous for his first mlb start and his first win. Vital to that victory was the careful preparation of the Twins, including great care for Winder's arm, strong defense up the middle, and exposing the rookie early in the season to the Show, so that the crowd noise and such were not quite so traumatic. 

Final grade for his first start: A+. Expecting great things from this pitcher. 

[DocBauer]

2 hours ago, jimbo92107 said:

Josh Winder may have slightly better stuff than Bailey Ober, but Ober has better command, at least right now. However, with Wes Johnson coaching pitchers, don't be surprised if Ober adds another 2 or 3 mph to his heater over the next year or so. Both these guys can dominate, and both of them will give their team a chance to win. 

Funny how your pitchers tend to dominate when you've got Carlos Correa, Jorge Polanco and Byron Buxton up the middle. Those guys regularly take away hits and runs from opponents. 

Note: We have now seen Trevor Larnach gun down two guys trying to take home on his arm. Can Kirilloff throw like that? 

Kirilloff played a lot of CF in HS but was projected to being a corner OF with growth, even though he continued to play some CF when the Twins drafted him. He lost a season due to TJ surgery early on, and while I never heard that he lost anything from his throwing, Larnach was reputed to having OK defense but a strong arm when drafted. When both were in the lineup in 2021, the Twins usually placed Larnach in RF and Kirilloff in LF. Now, that could be Larnach having the better arm, or it could be Kirilloff having a little better speed to cover the larger expanse of LF. Both are reputed to have decent to good arms and OK defense throughout their drafting and milb reports. Pay no attention to "can't play the OF" reports. They are both at least average in the OF. AK just has a gift to play a really good 1B.

[jimbo92107]

Cole Sands, pure rookie, did well for his first time. Twins again did well by Sands, providing him with a low-leverage situation, along with a plan for low innings his first mlb season. Like Winder, Sands also gets the benefits of a great defense up the middle, plus a red-hot offense to ease any big worries...other than embarrassing himself in front of thousands of people. This he did in his first inning, coughing up a couple runs while struggle to control his heart rate, before self-disgust allowed him to dismiss the final batter of the inning. After that, his second inning was 1, 2, 3. This time he showed the kind of low-zone whiffable attack that got Sands to the majors. 

Final grade for first rookie appearance: A+. Let us be nurturing in our approach to pure rookies. Sands looks like he's going to be very good, but the numbers game may bounce him back and forth a few times between Mpls. and St Paul. We could be witnessing an historic emergence of a cadre of high-quality organization talent. Ober, Winder and Sands are just the beginning. Are the gods of probability finally going to allow Twins fans to have nice things?

[jimbo92107]

3 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Sanchez has been much better than advertised behind the plate so far.

Sanchez is slightly sub par behind the plate (good arm) except for a couple things, mainly balls in the dirt. That means whoever pitches to Sanchez (esp. Bundy, Duffey) should avoid grounding one, even if it otherwise would be a good idea. Having watched him a few times now, Sanchez is almost completely unable to get a bounced curve or slider or forkball into his mitt. Instead, he does a poor job of blocking these pitches, which allows any runner to simply jog to the next base. 

Sanchez also has a problem snagging wayward fastballs that drift high and outside. His glove seems to lag behind the pitch too much. Again, runners jog to the next base. Irritatingly, Dick Bremmer called one of these a "wild pitch," when clearly it just got past a slow-reacting Sanchez. 

Lucky thing Sanchez is a legitimate power threat at the plate. His future screams, "DH." 

[stringer bell]

2 hours ago, DocBauer said:

Kirilloff played a lot of CF in HS but was projected to being a corner OF with growth, even though he continued to play some CF when the Twins drafted him. He lost a season due to TJ surgery early on, and while I never heard that he lost anything from his throwing, Larnach was reputed to having OK defense but a strong arm when drafted. When both were in the lineup in 2021, the Twins usually placed Larnach in RF and Kirilloff in LF. Now, that could be Larnach having the better arm, or it could be Kirilloff having a little better speed to cover the larger expanse of LF. Both are reputed to have decent to good arms and OK defense throughout their drafting and milb reports. Pay no attention to "can't play the OF" reports. They are both at least average in the OF. AK just has a gift to play a really good 1B.

Disagree. Kirilloff had played precious little left field and when he and Larnach manned the corners, Alex was in right and Trevor in left. Neither guy is reputed to be a great outfielder, but Kirilloff has played plenty of first base and is solid there. Overall, Larnach is decent in the OF and with experience might become above average IMHO. Kirilloff is probably going to end up at first base. 

[Aichiman]

Us Falvey/Levine/Rocco detractors are still here.  It's been a good week; don't get overly excited.  With that said, I'd gladly eat crow for my complaints against the FO and our fearless manager if the Twins continue to win!  Go Twins!  Prove me wrong!

[Major League Ready]

11 hours ago, DocBauer said:

Ober's not going anywhere if healthy. Being a pragmatist, Ober is still young/inexperienced at the ML level. It's still possible he hits a rough patch and needs a re-set at St Paul at some point. (Though I doubt it). As much as I like Winder and believe he's part of the future and is ready now, Ober isn't going anywhere. He's going to be in the rotation for the next several years. He's good.

Have to agree.  It made me think about how and when Winder gets added.  Obviously, injury creates opportunity, but I think they end up trading Archer / Bundy or even Gray at the deadline.  If the SPs stay healthy a couple of these three could get traded leaving Ryan / Paddack / Ober / Winder and one of the veterans for the rest of the season with Smeltzer as depth.  A good showing the next couple months from some of the next wave (Smeltzer / Balazovic / Henriguez / Sands / SWR / Canterinio) would likely make the FO more inclined to trade some of our veteran pitching at the deadline at which point Winder would take a permanent spot (hopefully) in the rotation.

[Linus]

I liked that winder throws strikes, in fact all our young pitchers fill the strike zone. By doing so it gets hitters in swing mode. I really liked Larnach double: back door breaking ball on the outside corner and he crushed the other way. 

[Blyleven2011]

10 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

  Where did all the Falvey/Levine haters go?

We are still out here ,,, 

What really bothers me about them is they don't connect with the fans and tell us the plan ,,,,  

In interviews they stray from answering  the questions honestly  and last season during the worst season of twins baseball  they could hardly be seen giving interviews during the first half  , but in the second half they were back in front of the cameras Be Essing their way through the season when twins were playing better ball .... 

Just wanted to let you know that we are still here and give my thoughts and not an argument 

[terrydactyls]

6 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

We are still out here ,,, 

What really bothers me about them is they don't connect with the fans and tell us the plan ,,,,  

In interviews they stray from answering  the questions honestly  and last season during the worst season of twins baseball  they could hardly be seen giving interviews during the first half  , but in the second half they were back in front of the cameras Be Essing their way through the season when twins were playing better ball .... 

Just wanted to let you know that we are still here and give my thoughts and not an argument 

I appreciate your response.  Because I am on the east coast, I am not aware of the daily interaction (or lack thereof, as you indicated) and I don't hear any interviews with the front office.  All I get is Red Sox, Bruins, Patriots, and Celtics 24 hours a day.  I've never liked the Red Sox or the Patriots, haven't liked the Bruins since Bobby Orr retired, and because I am a short, fat, white guy, I've never liked basketball.  So Twins Daily is my window into Minnesota Twins baseball.  I wish the Vikings and Wild had sites half as good.

[Alex Schieferdecker]

Ober (26), Paddack (26), Ryan (25), and Winder (25) is a pretty solid building block for the rotation in future years. 

For 2023, the Twins also should have a healthy Maeda and could exercise a club option on Gray.

In just a month, the thinking about the Twins starting pitching has completely reversed. What once looked shallow now looks quite deep. The Twins may lack a true #1 guy, but they have several young pitchers who could develop into that guy.

Quote

My memory from reading prospect reports before Larnach came up is that they portrayed him as a pretty one-dimensional bat-first guy. I think Fangraphs might have called him "sluggish" in the outfield.

There's definitely some selection bias here because I'm watching highlights, not full games, but in those limited views his arm, reactions in the outfield, and speed (at least as a baserunner) all seem perfectly fine and playable.

The scouts weren't wrong. Larnach is surprisingly slow. It's been noticeable on the bases. His arm has been a great discovery though.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

Have to agree.  It made me think about how and when Winder gets added.  Obviously, injury creates opportunity, but I think they end up trading Archer / Bundy or even Gray at the deadline.  If the SPs stay healthy a couple of these three could get traded leaving Ryan / Paddack / Ober / Winder and one of the veterans for the rest of the season with Smeltzer as depth.  A good showing the next couple months from some of the next wave (Smeltzer / Balazovic / Henriguez / Sands / SWR / Canterinio) would likely make the FO more inclined to trade some of our veteran pitching at the deadline at which point Winder would take a permanent spot (hopefully) in the rotation.

I think they keep two veterans, for the mentoring.... But it's hard to see where they fit if the young guys are this good... So you may be right.

[Schmoeman5]

15 hours ago, Alex Schieferdecker said:

Ober (26), Paddack (26), Ryan (25), and Winder (25) is a pretty solid building block for the rotation in future years. 

For 2023, the Twins also should have a healthy Maeda and could exercise a club option on Gray.

In just a month, the thinking about the Twins starting pitching has completely reversed. What once looked shallow now looks quite deep. The Twins may lack a true #1 guy, but they have several young pitchers who could develop into that guy.

The scouts weren't wrong. Larnach is surprisingly slow. It's been noticeable on the bases. His arm has been a great discovery though.

I'm curious. If Larnach is so slow, how come so many doubles? Shouldn't they just be long singles