Is Wes Johnson back to being a pitching whisperer?

[Brock Beauchamp]

I’m struggling to keep up with where we stand on the evaluation of Johnson. Do we love him again?

[4twinsJA]

I am a Wes Johnson supporter. Last year was just one of those years and they may have been a little overconfident that they could tweek anyone and get improved results. FO did better job this year finding pitchers that just needed some tweeking.

[Dave The Dastardly]

39 minutes ago, 4twinsJA said:

I am a Wes Johnson supporter. Last year was just one of those years and they may have been a little overconfident that they could tweek anyone and get improved results. FO did better job this year finding pitchers that just needed some tweeking.

And sometimes the athlete needs a mental tweak more so than a physical tweak. The ability to recognize the difference and how to best address the perceived shortcoming is what separates the Bill Belichicks from the Les Steckels of the world. But at the same time we have to acknowledge that some players just aren't tweakable no matter who's coaching them so we can't expect a "whisperer" to have a 100% success rate.

Wes Johnson has proven he's closer to the Belichick camp then the Steckel camp and I hope the Twins can hang on to him.

[mike8791]

SSS, but the performance of Bundy and Archer, together with the continued brilliance of Ober and Ryan, both relatively unheralded in their respective orgs, certainly deserves kudos.  Much too early to call Wes the "pitching whisperer", at least until a couple more months pass, but the rotation's surprising strong start gives credence to Johnson's creds.

I can only wish his touch could be translated to our pen, where as of now, Johnson has failed at any transformation of a Twins minor leaguer into a trustworthy late-inning shutdown reliever.  With Duran's touted "stuff", why isn't he ready for closer situations?  This is still a major hole in the pen.  Why haven't the Twins been able to develop a single minor leaguer into a steady reliever in Falvine's 5+ years in charge?   A lot of this weakness should be laid at Falvine's feet., starting with the trade of Pressley when the window of contention was wide open and continuing thru 2022 when they traded Rogers, their only suitable closer going into the season.   Joe Smith is likely a solid addition but certainly not the pitcher to stabilize a very shaky pen.  The big failing of the FO was not to tap into a very deep FA reliever class to fill the glaring holes so apparent last year.  With Duffy and Thielbar so shaky, why were retreads like Stashak, Rhomero, and Coulombe brought up instead of one or two of our top starting minor leaguers?  .  Is this failure a result of a subpar minor league pitching development staff, poor drafting or a combination of the two?  Is Johnson's skill level applicable for only starting pitching.?  In a weaker-than-expected Central Div., this team should be a solid contender this year, but their bullpen still looks like their achilles heel.

[Brock Beauchamp]

45 minutes ago, mike8791 said:

With Duran's touted "stuff", why isn't he ready for closer situations? 

He literally has 7.0 MLB innings pitched and hasn't pitched earlier than the seventh inning since his debut game. I'm not sure what you expect to happen here.

[OptimisticTwinsFan]

I am a fan of Wes. I like that he finds ways to optimize deliveries to get more MPH than they previously had. He seems like he does a solid job of helping pitchers put together a plan for their pitch mix and dig into things like sequencing/tunneling of those pitches. 

He also seems to specialize in my favorite type of pitchers and pitching profile. It seems like he has found the most success with pitchers like Odorizzi, Maeda, Ryan, Ober and others whose signature is their 4 seam FB at the top of the zone with other secondary pitches developed off of that. He seems to value pitchers that have or have the potential to have above average swinging strike percentages and below average BB percentages who limit contact and this baserunners while giving up the downside of HRs (theoretically shallow). 

He also seems to be really good at finding pitchers who have some sort of unique characteristic whether it be release point, arm angle, height or something else that he can work off of that allows players stuff to play above traditional stuff metrics. 
 

I think finding guys with unique delivery points or arm angles or other characteristics and filtering them through the pitch usage above or others if it fits that profile is probably the right approach 

I am really hopeful he can turn Paddack into an Odorizzi pitcher or better. Paddack has elite stuff and is still young . Peripherals suggest he’s better than his current production consistently since injury return. Paddack is a big student of spin rates and grips and other things. I will feel betrayed if he doesn’t figure out the right tweaks to make the stuff and peripherals match the production.

[cHawk]

2 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Do we love him again?

I do

[TeJayDubz]

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

He literally has 7.0 MLB innings pitched and hasn't pitched earlier than the seventh inning since his debut game. I'm not sure what you expect to happen here.

Not to mention only 16 IP due to injury last year.

I think the bullpen will bounce back just like I think the starting rotation will regress. Neither stat lines are sustainable, and regression towards the mean is coming for both sides. I think the end result will still be a solid, albeit not amazing rotation, and a serviceable bullpen. I'd take that over 7+ shutout innings only to have one of our Bullpen give up 5 and blow it, ala Alex Colomé.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by TeJayDubz
typo

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, TeJayDubz said:

Not to mention only 16 IP due to injury last year.

I think the bullpen will bounce back just like I think the starting rotation will regress. Neither stat lines are sustainable, and regression towards the mean is coming for both sides. I think the end result will still be a solid, albeit not amazing rotation, and a serviceable bullpen. I'd take that over 7+ shutout innings only to have one of our Bullpen give up 5 and blow it, ala Alex Colomé.

 

 

Outside of a couple Duffey blowups the bullpen has been good.

Duffey doesn’t have the velocity that he used to have, but his last outing was ok to good despite the lost speed.

also to give credit on the strategy/execution front; with a short spring training and no real overwhelming number 1 starting pitcher acquired, Johnson and Baldelli have taken what’s given them, and made the most of it.

if this crew gets the blame for last years circus, they get credit for this year’s strong start. Both I believe are correct.

[ashbury]

My opinion of Johnson is uninformed by anything other than results.  I was souring on him before this season, although he had some successes even last year (Berrios for instance).  I'm not drastically revising my opinion based on one month; part of being a successful coach is having good things not be a flash in the pan.

[The Mad King]

I didn't freak on him last year, it was the individuals. Colome, Soloman etc. I'm missing the Bomba squad hitting coach, and I'm still not liking the idea of our catching coach at first base instead of in the dugout talking to catchers about the previous inning or the one coming up. 

[Thegrin]

I thought Wes was brilliant last year.  He had little to work with.  Ober got better as the year progressed. Jax was usable, without real good stuff. Ryan did what Ryan does. All this in a terrible year.  This year he has more to work with.

[TheLeviathan]

Need more sample size, but so far the pitching has been surprisingly cromulent.  

[bunsen82]

I honestly think Johnson is a very good coach, he won’t hit on all of them. I also have a bit of a worry Bundy may turn into Martin Perez 2.0. The only difference is he has more pitches and seems to be an overall better pitcher.  Batters will likely begin to figure him out a bit.  Even still, the pitching talent is drastically better than years past. Wes has much better clay to mold that what he started with or even last year after things fell apart.  
 

As to the bullpen, I honestly think if they have a decent shot, that is when they will begin to build it up similar to a couple years ago even though one of those trades failed miserably.  I still think the plan is for next year and beyond but these last 3 games have been entertaining even if they have been against an undermanned white Sox team. 

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

Johnson's critics point to his 2021 failure to reclaim Happ, Shoemaker, and Colome from the scrap heap.

This year Archer, Bundy, Paddack, and Pagan seem to be similar reclamation projects. 

Duffey, Smeltzer, and Dobnak offer mixed/incomplete results. 

Early results are promising. We won't really know until the end of June. If the Twins are buyers and add an ace at the trade deadline, Johnson's magic will be on full display. 

 

[TwinsDr2021]

It would be hard to argue about his results so far, lets see how the starting pitchers hold up when asked to push their pitch count up.

[RJA]

Three observations.  First, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  Even the best coaches/managers need a certain level of talent to be successful.  Colome, Happ, and Shoemaker really had nothing left in the tank, so there was not much Johnson could do.  Plus, Taylor was injured yet the bullpen got better last year as the season went on. Second, I think he has a real gift for working with young players who seem to like him, trust him and listen to him.  Sometimes "old pros" can be set in their ways a bit and not open to coaching. Finally, He really does have a knack for improving fastballs.  He has proven that in college and here with the Twins.  So, I am a Johnson guy. 

[wabene]

Interesting interview with Archer where the former Ray said he was very impressed by the Twins hitter scouting reports and their analyitic process overall. Definitely an especially good sign from a former Ray.

[Trov]

I do not know how much of a difference he makes one way or the other.  This year so far all the starters, have been good to decent overall.  Archer and Paddock have had some rough innings, but nothing terrible.  The pen has had some rough points but again nothing terrible.  Last year none of the new guys did much.  Was that Wes?  Maybe.  Is the results of Bundy, and Archer Wes?  Maybe.  Sometimes you can tell guys all the time what to do, and either they ignore you, because they think they know better, or they just cannot follow through. 

Maybe last year everyone did what Wes asked but failed, and maybe this year they are not listening to him.  I doubt that is the case though.  I think with Bundy and Archer, much in past was pitch selection, and much of that comes from the team plans.  Yes, the pitcher is the one that throws it, but much of the time the scouting report has plans for hitters and how pitchers should pitch to them.  

I have liked Wes, and think he is good at what he does.  Just because he had some flops, which may not have been his fault, it may have been mostly the vets ignoring his advise.