Twins 1, Royals 0: Joe Cool Dazzles, Slough of Singles

[tarheeltwinsfan]

2 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

"in a matchup between arguably the two best teams in the AL Central."

That would be a tortured argument at this point. Nice win today, but the Twins aren't even in the same league as the White Sox unless the bats magically wake up.

The Twins are in the same league as the White Sox...the American League.

[Shaitan]

4 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

It was a great game by Ryan, Duran, Smith & Pagan. My observation is we used our best 3 short relief guys! Now playing our nemesis CWS who do we have to close out a game. Why don't they go with Winder for 2 innings then we still have 2 of these guys fresh for up coming games against CWS. 

We should have a regular schedule of long relief every game giving innings to Winder, Smeltzer and whoever is hot to go 2, 3 or even 4 if need be. These guys need to be pitching not sitting on the bench or stuck in AAA and the likes of Duffy needs to sit on the bench only to mop up until he figures it out. And we should have Duran, Smith and Pagan to close out separate games.

Smith is like 100 years old in sports years. He can pitch back to back games.

[h2oface]

16 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

You’re free to jump on the Duran fireman bandwagon anytime. 

Not a bandwagon guy..... have at it. He still isn't given the end of the game...... but he will be, I hope. He is in the right spot for his arm, his development, and the team right now. I enjoy it.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

3 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

How many times do you need to see him break down injured as a starter before coming to the dark side of Duran being a kick ass reliever?

If that premise were true, the best pitchers would all be made relievers.

[Danchat]

4 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

That Nelson Cruz trade is looking more and more like a heist.

Absolutely, I rated it an A+ at the time and now it looks like an A+++++ even though Strotman isn't faring so well. You have to remember that the discussion here was that we'd get a bag of balls for Cruz in a trade, and here we are with a stud starting pitcher on the first year of his rookie contract. 

[jimbo92107]

Pretty nice situation with the starters, assuming Gray comes back healthy. Each of the six has delivered at least one solid performance, where they kept their team in the game for at least 5 innings. 

In this game, Baldi then used his best three short relievers, not a bad plan to win a 1-run shutout. 

The question this early season remains, what the heck, Twins hitters? I sure hope we're not facing every team's ace every game. 

In fact, I'd say it's high time the Twins greeted an opponent's starter with some rudeness. All strictly legal, of course. How about ten runs in the first couple innings? That would be nice for the home town fans.

[jmlease1]

Great to see Ryan continuing to develop his slider and make that a weapon for himself. If he's able to consistently locate that pitch it's going to help his fastball as well. He really seems like a player who understands how to pitch, and it's fun to watch. The first game with the 4 BBs is looking like a bit of an anomaly. 

Just happy to see Buxton back in the lineup. 

[awmonahan]

I know the team isn't looking great overall, but that is the type of game you want/need from your ace (Joe is building a case). I'm glad Rocco brought in his key bullpen guys to finish it off. This teams needs wins and confidence. Tomorrow's innings will have to be determined and other guys will have to step up to pitch them and get some hits (pretty please). It all has to start somewhere. Here's hoping this game lights a bit of a fire. 

 

[Whitey333]

Great game by Ryan.  He looks to be the real deal.  Did anyone notice that our offense only scored 1 run?  Actually that is 1 run in the past 18 innings.  Still waiting for some our star hitters to start hitting.  

[Mark G]

One more time:  Ryan had a 2 hit shutout going with only 65 pitches on a perfect day to pitch and was pulled after 6.  How much more proof do we need that Rocco simply does not believe in 3rd and 4th times through a lineup.  Plan A will always be what we saw yesterday; good start and 3 RP's all having to be on.  Damnit, Rocco, let the man pitch!!  If not now, when??  Or, if nothing else, come out and own it:  I will never let a starter take charge of their game as long as I am manager of this team.  At least then pitchers will know where they stand (if they don't already).  

Sorry about the venting.    

[Mark G]

36 minutes ago, Mark G said:

One more time:  Ryan had a 2 hit shutout going with only 65 pitches on a perfect day to pitch and was pulled after 6.  How much more proof do we need that Rocco simply does not believe in 3rd and 4th times through a lineup.  Plan A will always be what we saw yesterday; good start and 3 RP's all having to be on.  Damnit, Rocco, let the man pitch!!  If not now, when??  Or, if nothing else, come out and own it:  I will never let a starter take charge of their game as long as I am manager of this team.  At least then pitchers will know where they stand (if they don't already).  

Sorry about the venting.    

A mea culpa here, perhaps.  The article here said there were 65 pitches, but looking at the newspaper they say it was 85 pitches.  Anyone know which is correct?  If it is 85 I would change my tone above, at least a little.  I still believe he should have been allowed to own his game, especially on a day like yesterday weather wise, but 85 is different than 65.  If so, I stand corrected.  

[Trov]

Remember when people were tearing into Twins for Ryan being the opening day starter?  Who has been the best starter on the team so far? Overall our starters have done well, but he has been the best.  I bet he could have went another inning or two for sure, but will take the win either way. 

Early season sure, but if you had to pick Berrios or Ryan right now who would be your preferred starter? 

[USAFChief]

28 minutes ago, Mark G said:

A mea culpa here, perhaps.  The article here said there were 65 pitches, but looking at the newspaper they say it was 85 pitches.  Anyone know which is correct?  If it is 85 I would change my tone above, at least a little.  I still believe he should have been allowed to own his game, especially on a day like yesterday weather wise, but 85 is different than 65.  If so, I stand corrected.  

Per the MLB.com box score, 85 pitches, 57 strikes.

 

The article says 65 pitches. 57 strikes...pretty clearly a typo.

[jmlease1]

52 minutes ago, Mark G said:

A mea culpa here, perhaps.  The article here said there were 65 pitches, but looking at the newspaper they say it was 85 pitches.  Anyone know which is correct?  If it is 85 I would change my tone above, at least a little.  I still believe he should have been allowed to own his game, especially on a day like yesterday weather wise, but 85 is different than 65.  If so, I stand corrected.  

It was 85. This is only his 3rd start of the year after an abbreviated spring training and lockout. he threw 70 pitches in his first start, 82 in #2, and 85 in #3. I'm guessing that they'd let him go 90-100 in his next start as they ramp him up to full strength while trying to avoid injury. I'd hate for Ryan to strain something in his shoulder (or anywhere else, frankly) and miss 10-30 days just so he could "take control of his game".

[GNess]

11 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

If that premise were true, the best pitchers would all be made relievers.

Exactly!

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, Mark G said:

A mea culpa here, perhaps.  The article here said there were 65 pitches, but looking at the newspaper they say it was 85 pitches.  Anyone know which is correct?  If it is 85 I would change my tone above, at least a little.  I still believe he should have been allowed to own his game, especially on a day like yesterday weather wise, but 85 is different than 65.  If so, I stand corrected.  

I don’t know which is right, but I guarantee that one of the facets in the decision is managing Ryan’s work load so he’s available in September.

he only pitched 100 innings last year (plus Olympics but I’m sure that wasn’t more than 20 innings) he might get 120 to 130 innings this year. I am certain they will shut him down well before 150 innings.

Outside of 2 Duffey blow ups, the bullpen has pitched well. I’d rather see Ryan pitching in September than some quad A scrap heap pickup. Let the expanded bullpen carry more of the load for now.

[USAFChief]

39 minutes ago, Sconnie said:

(Ryan) might get 120 to 130 innings this year. I am certain they will shut him down well before 150 innings.

 

Why? 

[PDX Twin]

I'm still admiring the Gordon throw from CF. Very Eddie-esque. But more chalant!

[RpR]

59 minutes ago, PDX Twin said:

I'm still admiring the Gordon throw from CF. Very Eddie-esque. But more chalant!

Not even close; Eddie would have done it standing still, thirty feet farther back and it would not have bounced.

Doumit and Rosario are the only two Twins I remember, not that there were not others, that could do that; Gordon has hustle, and never gives up, so Twins would be fools to not keep him.

[Mark G]

3 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Why? 

Because you cannot expect a major league pitcher to throw more than 85 pitches a game or more than 140 or so innings in a season.  He might blow out his arm if he does.  

Will someone please, please tell me how pitchers for a century managed to pitch in a 4 man rotation, pitching over 100 pitches (well over 100?) a game, and 200-300 innings in a season?  How??  How could they do it and no one today can?  How did Bert Blyleven throw 242 complete games?  Isn't that impossible?  No one alive today can, so how did he?  Because he didn't throw 100mph?  If that is the reason, then STOP throwing 100mph!!  

Never mind, I know I am on the losing end of this debate.  I am old enough to have seen him pitch (multiple times, even the game he flipped the bird to the fans as he left the field because he knew he was being traded).  And many more like him.  And I would take a few like him over anyone in the game today.  And the sad part is, it isn't their fault!1  If you would let them pitch from the early stages on, they would be the Blyleven's of today.  Instead, they are held back because we are afraid of hurting them.  And what happens?  They get hurt because they DON'T stretch themselves out.  So why............oh, what the @#$%?  I am going to lose this debate anyway.  

Ryan is 25 years old, and in the prime of his life.  If he can't pitch a 3rd (or 4th.......no, not a 4th.....) time through a line up without throwing his arm out, or getting lit up, then who can??  Who knows how many more Blyleven's we may have missed because we are terrified of hurting their arm?  I guess we will never know, huh, because we are the smartest guys baseball has ever produced.  

There!  My vent for the day.  

Let the yelling begin.    

 

[Minny505]

While it cannot be proven, it is generally agreed upon by most sports fans that defense is more consistent than offense.

Baseball analysts generally agree that a pitcher's offspeed pitches vary from start to start, but the fastball is rather consistent. 

I have this theory that Joe Ryan's fastball is like a team with good defense. Even if his offspeed is not working, he has one of the best fastballs in the game and that will prevent him from having too many ugly games. He can always fall back on that 65 fastball. 

And when his offspeed is on, he is amongst the best in baseball. 

Does that make sense?

[h2oface]

1 hour ago, Mark G said:

Because you cannot expect a major league pitcher to throw more than 85 pitches a game or more than 140 or so innings in a season.  He might blow out his arm if he does.  

Will someone please, please tell me how pitchers for a century managed to pitch in a 4 man rotation, pitching over 100 pitches (well over 100?) a game, and 200-300 innings in a season?  How??  How could they do it and no one today can?  How did Bert Blyleven throw 242 complete games?  Isn't that impossible?  No one alive today can, so how did he?  Because he didn't throw 100mph?  If that is the reason, then STOP throwing 100mph!!  

Never mind, I know I am on the losing end of this debate.  I am old enough to have seen him pitch (multiple times, even the game he flipped the bird to the fans as he left the field because he knew he was being traded).  And many more like him.  And I would take a few like him over anyone in the game today.  And the sad part is, it isn't their fault!1  If you would let them pitch from the early stages on, they would be the Blyleven's of today.  Instead, they are held back because we are afraid of hurting them.  And what happens?  They get hurt because they DON'T stretch themselves out.  So why............oh, what the @#$%?  I am going to lose this debate anyway.  

Ryan is 25 years old, and in the prime of his life.  If he can't pitch a 3rd (or 4th.......no, not a 4th.....) time through a line up without throwing his arm out, or getting lit up, then who can??  Who knows how many more Blyleven's we may have missed because we are terrified of hurting their arm?  I guess we will never know, huh, because we are the smartest guys baseball has ever produced.  

There!  My vent for the day.  

Let the yelling begin.    

 

 Yup. Great post. It was apparent to me, not because I agree with the current processing of pitchers, but because it is the thing now, and they think that to protect their "asset", they can't go too many innings. It is a rare bird that can pitch deep and even complete games. Even Kershaw, who used to, was pulled (early in the season, ONLY 80 pitches, history of recurring back injury, short ST ramp up) after 7 WITH A PERFECT GAME! And he was OK with it. I get it, too (at least I can talk myself into it), at this point in the season, and especially for the strike affected start of the season. But if this team gets hot, and that is a big IF, and is competing at the end of the season, they have no starters that have recently gone anywhere close to 200 innings (including Sonny Gray since 2015), and some hardly even 100. It will be a huge problem. It is a huge problem for us even now, with starters pitching well but pulled early with 70-80 some pitches for the likes of the Colome impersonators from the pen and anemic offense's lack of support.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

4 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Why? 

Verducci effect

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, Mark G said:

Because you cannot expect a major league pitcher to throw more than 85 pitches a game or more than 140 or so innings in a season.  He might blow out his arm if he does.  

Will someone please, please tell me how pitchers for a century managed to pitch in a 4 man rotation, pitching over 100 pitches (well over 100?) a game, and 200-300 innings in a season?  How??  How could they do it and no one today can?  How did Bert Blyleven throw 242 complete games?  Isn't that impossible?  No one alive today can, so how did he?  Because he didn't throw 100mph?  If that is the reason, then STOP throwing 100mph!!  

Never mind, I know I am on the losing end of this debate.  I am old enough to have seen him pitch (multiple times, even the game he flipped the bird to the fans as he left the field because he knew he was being traded).  And many more like him.  And I would take a few like him over anyone in the game today.  And the sad part is, it isn't their fault!1  If you would let them pitch from the early stages on, they would be the Blyleven's of today.  Instead, they are held back because we are afraid of hurting them.  And what happens?  They get hurt because they DON'T stretch themselves out.  So why............oh, what the @#$%?  I am going to lose this debate anyway.  

Ryan is 25 years old, and in the prime of his life.  If he can't pitch a 3rd (or 4th.......no, not a 4th.....) time through a line up without throwing his arm out, or getting lit up, then who can??  Who knows how many more Blyleven's we may have missed because we are terrified of hurting their arm?  I guess we will never know, huh, because we are the smartest guys baseball has ever produced.  

There!  My vent for the day.  

Let the yelling begin.    

 

I think Ryan can be built up to a 6 inning per start, 200 inning per season pitcher. He’s never come close before, minor league and college seasons are much shorter.

spring training was abbreviated, so they starters are still building up the stamina.

The days of complete game shut outs are mostly behind us. Just like platoons, most starting pitchers as they get tired have worse outcomes than a fresh reliever even if that reliever is a worse pitcher.

i realize that every hall of famer started out as a rookie, but is it really fair to compare Joe Ryan in his first full major league season to Bert Blyleven? Really? He’s top 1% of all players in history.

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, Mark G said:

Because you cannot expect a major league pitcher to throw more than 85 pitches a game or more than 140 or so innings in a season.  He might blow out his arm if he does.  

Will someone please, please tell me how pitchers for a century managed to pitch in a 4 man rotation, pitching over 100 pitches (well over 100?) a game, and 200-300 innings in a season?  How??  How could they do it and no one today can?  How did Bert Blyleven throw 242 complete games?  Isn't that impossible?  No one alive today can, so how did he?  Because he didn't throw 100mph?  If that is the reason, then STOP throwing 100mph!!  

Never mind, I know I am on the losing end of this debate.  I am old enough to have seen him pitch (multiple times, even the game he flipped the bird to the fans as he left the field because he knew he was being traded).  And many more like him.  And I would take a few like him over anyone in the game today.  And the sad part is, it isn't their fault!1  If you would let them pitch from the early stages on, they would be the Blyleven's of today.  Instead, they are held back because we are afraid of hurting them.  And what happens?  They get hurt because they DON'T stretch themselves out.  So why............oh, what the @#$%?  I am going to lose this debate anyway.  

Ryan is 25 years old, and in the prime of his life.  If he can't pitch a 3rd (or 4th.......no, not a 4th.....) time through a line up without throwing his arm out, or getting lit up, then who can??  Who knows how many more Blyleven's we may have missed because we are terrified of hurting their arm?  I guess we will never know, huh, because we are the smartest guys baseball has ever produced.  

There!  My vent for the day.  

Let the yelling begin.    

 

Oh I won't yell, but I've come to the realization that the times have changed. Pitchers aren't treated as they were and the expectations are different. Bullpens have guys with great arms and the game is expected to go to the bullpen for the later innings. The average fastball velocity is way up and the exertion on the other pitches is up to. Franchises want to handle their assets so that they get maximum production for the length of their control over the asset. I remember 4-man rotations and guys like Jim Kaat getting more than 40 starts and 300 innings. Finally, this year all of the things limiting extending pitchers into later innings are exacerbated by the lockout and short spring training.

Also what we don't know or don't remember is how many guys flamed out with the earlier expectation of throwing nine innings every fourth (later fifth) day. 

Some guys like Nolan Ryan and Bert too, I guess, probably could succeed in any generation and be dominant. As a post above says, they are among the 1%.