Joe Ryan and Nick Gordon

[Linus]

I’m not hesitant to criticize our front office. However I want to give them credit for signing Nelson Cruz, getting great production from him and then flipping him for Joe Ryan. Huge benefits that may last for many more years with Ryan in the rotation. 

Here is the must un-sabr observation ever. Ever notice that Nick Gordon does something positive every time he gets in there?

[DaveW44]

Yes I’ve noticed Nick Gordon does something good every time he plays. Wish Rocco would notice the same thing. 

[4twinsJA]

I am getting to be a Nick Gordon fan as well, seems to be solid in OF and gets on base-has some speed. Love Ryan, yes great trade by FO. 

[RpR]

He could, with experience from not being tossed to the wolves but being brought up slowly,  turn into another Ceasar Tovar.

[ashbury]

Yes, he went 2-3 today.  Good day to bring him up for discussion.  That's a .667 batting average, for a 1.333 OPS.  Sabrmetrics seems to like his day.

I've noticed that in the 10 games Nick Gordon has played, the team is 2-8.  So they're 3-0 when he sits.  In the games he's started, they're now-1-5.  That's not very sabrmetric, but there it is.

[Thegrin]

If Arraez can play first base, Gordon can play it better.  Don't get me wrong, I love Arraez' bat, but his only position is 2b.

[nokomismod]

Ryan reminds me a bit of Radke. Doesn’t throw super hard but changes speed and great location. Loved watching vintage Radke

[Richie the Rally Goat]

3 hours ago, DaveW44 said:

Yes I’ve noticed Nick Gordon does something good every time he plays. Wish Rocco would notice the same thing. 

Gordon started in Center over Celestino quite a bit. I don’t think Gordon’s impact is lost on Rocco.

Gordon has been the best of the worst for this team. I don’t want to take anything away from him, but I’d love to see the FO find an improvement upon him.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

51 minutes ago, nokomismod said:

Ryan reminds me a bit of Radke. Doesn’t throw super hard but changes speed and great location. Loved watching vintage Radke

Joe Ryan’s average change up is 82, Radke’s fastball was 85. Ryan throws a lot harder

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, Thegrin said:

If Arraez can play first base, Gordon can play it better.  Don't get me wrong, I love Arraez' bat, but his only position is 2b.

I disagree with you Thegrin. Yes Arraez can field any ball that hit right at him at 2B but he has no range. That's why I say it's his worse position. Keep  him at 1B. We have many who can play 1B that don't play any other position that well we don't need Gordon there.

[wabene]

1 hour ago, Sconnie said:

Joe Ryan’s average change up is 82, Radke’s fastball was 85. Ryan throws a lot harder

85 in Radke's day is 92 now, hmm.

[wabene]

2 hours ago, nokomismod said:

Ryan reminds me a bit of Radke. Doesn’t throw super hard but changes speed and great location. Loved watching vintage Radke

Yo Bro great command and unflappable.

[TwinsDr2021]

2 hours ago, nokomismod said:

Ryan reminds me a bit of Radke. Doesn’t throw super hard but changes speed and great location. Loved watching vintage Radke

I agree, I mean after he grooved the fastball to the first batter and got his no hitter and perfect game out of the way. It didn't happen all the time but sure felt like it. Hated him retiring at age 33, I remember at one time he had one of the highest percentage chance to get to 300 wins as just about anybody.

[Trov]

Still early, but the Cruz for Ryan trade may go down as one of the greatest ever for Twins.  Nothing against Cruz, but we were not going to use him when we traded him, and Ryan has 6 years of team control and has always looked good at MLB level.  He may stumble but trading a guy that you had no need for and getting a young good controlled starter for 6 years wow. 

For all the people that were always low on Gordon, the new FO and Rocco included, he has always had a slow adjusting curve to each level, but when he adjusted he always performed well at the plate.  I do not get why Garlick keeps getting playing time over Gordon.  Even if you think long term Gordon is not in your future, he is doing just fine right, let him play it out.  

[Richie the Rally Goat]

15 minutes ago, Trov said:

  I do not get why Garlick keeps getting playing time over Gordon.  Even if you think long term Gordon is not in your future, he is doing just fine right, let him play it out.  

Because Gordon is a Lefty, and the Twins have faced a lot of Lefty pitchers lately. Garlick as a Righty can only do one thing, mash lefties

[Otto von Ballpark]

11 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I agree, I mean after he grooved the fastball to the first batter and got his no hitter and perfect game out of the way. It didn't happen all the time but sure felt like it. Hated him retiring at age 33, I remember at one time he had one of the highest percentage chance to get to 300 wins as just about anybody.

This got me thinking -- I plugged Radke's stats through 2001 (before he started missing time due to injury) into the "Favorite Toy", a Bill James tool to estimate the chances of a player reaching a certain statistical milestone. It had him at 0% chance of reaching 300 wins, but did forecast a career total of 187 (Radke would actually finish with 148):

https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/billjames/_/age/28/careertotal/93/yearone/15/yeartwo/12/yearthree/12

Right after his 20 win season, it gave him a 4% chance of reaching 300, but his forecast was only 181 wins at that point, so it was probably an extremely wide range of possible outcomes due to lack of sample size.

[bighat]

17 hours ago, Linus said:

I’m not hesitant to criticize our front office. However I want to give them credit for signing Nelson Cruz, getting great production from him and then flipping him for Joe Ryan. Huge benefits that may last for many more years with Ryan in the rotation. 

Here is the must un-sabr observation ever. Ever notice that Nick Gordon does something positive every time he gets in there?

 

Ball seems to be jumping off Gordon's bat these days, the guy's a ballplayer and would like to see him in the lineup as often as possible. He should be ahead of Larnach on the depth chart, it's not even close right now. Get Larnach out of here and back to AAA, we've found our 3rd regular outfielder.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, Sconnie said:

Because Gordon is a Lefty, and the Twins have faced a lot of Lefty pitchers lately. Garlick as a Righty can only do one thing, mash lefties

Back when I was robbing banks. My job was to go into the vault and stuff the money into the bag, that's what I did every time. 

I was never allowed to be the guy who disabled the security cameras or made sure the bank personnel/customers stayed on the floor. I just kept stuffing money into the bag because it was the only assignment I was given.  

Other people in our crew would fill multiple jobs as needed but I was limited to the same job. 

One day I was the only option for crowd control and had to do it. I struggled a little because my experience with this sort of thing was being held back. So, I was letting people get up for bathroom breaks, use their cell phones to call others outside the bank. I posed for selfies with a few of them. 

Afterwards... our crew leader said that all I could do was stuff the money in the bag.  

Well... he created that Monster... by limiting me to bag stuffing.   

There is nothing in Kyle's minor league stats that suggest he can't keep people on the floor.  

 

[roger]

13 hours ago, Sconnie said:

Joe Ryan’s average change up is 82, Radke’s fastball was 85. Ryan throws a lot harder

Wasn't an 85 fastball at the end of his career?  A great front of the rotation starter for the Twins for so many years.  Understand he didn't throw hard, but his fastball had to be harder than 85 most of his career, wasn't it?

But as Warren Spahn once said, doesn't make a ......... difference how hard you throw if every pitch is exactly where you want it.  Radke was a lot like that if my memory isn't failing me more than I think.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

4 minutes ago, roger said:

Wasn't an 85 fastball at the end of his career?  A great front of the rotation starter for the Twins for so many years.  Understand he didn't throw hard, but his fastball had to be harder than 85 most of his career, wasn't it?

But as Warren Spahn once said, doesn't make a ......... difference how hard you throw if every pitch is exactly where you want it.  Radke was a lot like that if my memory isn't failing me more than I think.

You could be right, I don’t remember the exact speeds, it’s what I looked up from an old article (baseball savant doesn’t keep those stats that far back).

My recollection was he didn’t throw hard back then relative to his peers and as others have pointed out, everyone today throws harder than they did back then

[Richie the Rally Goat]

41 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Back when I was robbing banks. My job was to go into the vault and stuff the money into the bag, that's what I did every time. 

I was never allowed to be the guy who disabled the security cameras or made sure the bank personnel/customers stayed on the floor. I just kept stuffing money into the bag because it was the only assignment I was given.  

Other people in our crew would fill multiple jobs as needed but I was limited to the same job. 

One day I was the only option for crowd control and had to do it. I struggled a little because my experience with this sort of thing was being held back. So, I was letting people get up for bathroom breaks, use their cell phones to call others outside the bank. I posed for selfies with a few of them. 

Afterwards... our crew leader said that all I could do was stuff the money in the bag.  

Well... he created that Monster... by limiting me to bag stuffing.   

There is nothing in Kyle's minor league stats that suggest he can't keep people on the floor.  

 

The question was “why Garlick over Gordon?”. The answer is if you have a hammer, use if on a nail. Maybe Garlick can be a screwdriver too… I dunno, but that wasn’t the question

[Riverbrian]

5 minutes ago, Sconnie said:

The question was “why Garlick over Gordon?”. The answer is if you have a hammer, use if on a nail. Maybe Garlick can be a screwdriver too… I dunno, but that wasn’t the question

I read that. 

I was just using the "all he can do is mash lefties" opportunity to express the ramifications of platooning. 

It's pretty clear that they are setting up the platoons when it comes to utilization. 

 

 

 

[dex8425]

1 hour ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

This got me thinking -- I plugged Radke's stats through 2001 (before he started missing time due to injury) into the "Favorite Toy", a Bill James tool to estimate the chances of a player reaching a certain statistical milestone. It had him at 0% chance of reaching 300 wins, but did forecast a career total of 187 (Radke would actually finish with 148):

https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/billjames/_/age/28/careertotal/93/yearone/15/yeartwo/12/yearthree/12

Right after his 20 win season, it gave him a 4% chance of reaching 300, but his forecast was only 181 wins at that point, so it was probably an extremely wide range of possible outcomes due to lack of sample size.

If he had played on better teams throughout his career, we're talking about a guy with a decent chance at cooperstown. Radke is one of the most underrated pitchers of his era for sure. 45 WAR! 

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

Back when I was robbing banks. My job was to go into the vault and stuff the money into the bag, that's what I did every time. 

I was never allowed to be the guy who disabled the security cameras or made sure the bank personnel/customers stayed on the floor. I just kept stuffing money into the bag because it was the only assignment I was given.  

Other people in our crew would fill multiple jobs as needed but I was limited to the same job. 

One day I was the only option for crowd control and had to do it. I struggled a little because my experience with this sort of thing was being held back. So, I was letting people get up for bathroom breaks, use their cell phones to call others outside the bank. I posed for selfies with a few of them. 

Afterwards... our crew leader said that all I could do was stuff the money in the bag.  

Well... he created that Monster... by limiting me to bag stuffing.   

There is nothing in Kyle's minor league stats that suggest he can't keep people on the floor.  

 

I wonder if perhaps your crew chief considered the long history of right-handed  Riverbrians being better at putting left handed money in bags, or your personal minor league criminal history when you were robbing liquor stores instead of banks and doing all the work yourself?

[wsnydes]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

Back when I was robbing banks. My job was to go into the vault and stuff the money into the bag, that's what I did every time. 

I was never allowed to be the guy who disabled the security cameras or made sure the bank personnel/customers stayed on the floor. I just kept stuffing money into the bag because it was the only assignment I was given.  

Other people in our crew would fill multiple jobs as needed but I was limited to the same job. 

One day I was the only option for crowd control and had to do it. I struggled a little because my experience with this sort of thing was being held back. So, I was letting people get up for bathroom breaks, use their cell phones to call others outside the bank. I posed for selfies with a few of them. 

Afterwards... our crew leader said that all I could do was stuff the money in the bag.  

Well... he created that Monster... by limiting me to bag stuffing.   

There is nothing in Kyle's minor league stats that suggest he can't keep people on the floor.  

 

I love the journey this took us on!

[Greglw3]

1 hour ago, bighat said:

 

Ball seems to be jumping off Gordon's bat these days, the guy's a ballplayer and would like to see him in the lineup as often as possible. He should be ahead of Larnach on the depth chart, it's not even close right now. Get Larnach out of here and back to AAA, we've found our 3rd regular outfielder.

I so much agree with you!!!

[Riverbrian]

11 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I wonder if perhaps your crew chief considered the long history of right-handed  Riverbrians being better at putting left handed money in bags, or your personal minor league criminal history when you were robbing liquor stores instead of banks and doing all the work yourself?

Oddly enough he did look at that stuff but I was young and in the end, there wasn't enough data on me to suggest that I was indeed one dimensional. At that stage, I could have been anything if allowed.     

He made me one-dimensional but also disposable. Eventually someone who could fill multiple rolls replaced me due to the limitations of the size of the crew and there really wasn't anything I could do about it.            

All that work and dedication to the profession and the crew was wasted. All that exploding colored dye that I had to wash out of my hair time and time again. All for nothing. 

Now I'm working some civilian job that doesn't pay quite as well.  

[Chasase]

Definitely agree nick gordon could be a beast at batting and joe Ryan does have great potential to be a great for are starting rotation well he already is but yesterday his start against the royals was phenomenal he has so much talent for a young pitcher. 

[USAFChief]

8 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Oddly enough he did look at that stuff but I was young and in the end, there wasn't enough data on me to suggest that I was indeed one dimensional. At that stage, I could have been anything if allowed.     

He made me one-dimensional but also disposable. Eventually someone who could fill multiple rolls replaced me due to the limitations of the size of the crew and there really wasn't anything I could do about it.            

All that work and dedication to the profession and the crew was wasted. All that exploding colored dye that I had to wash out of my hair time and time again. All for nothing. 

Now I'm working some civilian job that doesn't pay quite as well.  

It's possible, but perhaps your 1800 minor league robbery history--in which you didn't do so good at controlling right handed crowds-- shows HE didn't limit you...the Good Lord did.

[LA VIkes Fan]

3 hours ago, Sconnie said:

Because Gordon is a Lefty, and the Twins have faced a lot of Lefty pitchers lately. Garlick as a Righty can only do one thing, mash lefties

Except Garlick can't mash lefties and he's also playing against righties. He's hitting .286 with a .714 OPS against lefties, .182 with a .636 OPS overall. Why on earth is he playing? Kepler is hitting .267 with a .754 OPS against lefties this year; for some reason he now can't hit RH pitching. IF we have room to keep Garlick around as a 5th OF/ RH pinch hitter, ok. But for God's sake, don't ever put him in the regular lineup. He isn't good enough.   

I really would like to see them give Gordon an everyday run in LF to see what he can do. Celestino can play occasionally against LH starters and Larnach can either play 1B or really should probably be in AAA getting every day ABs. We could use Gordon's speed and defense in the lineup and so far he's the one hitting. Performance matters. Gordon is performing; let's give him the shot. If it doesn't work, move on to the next.