Game Score: Red Sox 8, Twins, 1

[Theo Tollefson]

Twins' Bats Remain Cold for Second Straight Game Against Red Sox

Box Score
SP: Bailey Ober 6 IP, 4 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 3 K (70 pitches, 46 strikes (65.7 strike %))
Home Runs: None
Bottom 3 WPA: Kyle Garlick (-0.176), Luis Arraez (-0.128), Caleb Thielbar (-0.117)
Win Probability Chart (via FanGraphs)

For the second straight game, the Twins failed to wake their bats up against the Red Sox as they dropped an 8-1 loss. 

Bailey Ober continued to show progress in his second start of the season. Ober completed six innings with 70 pitches thrown and gave up two unearned runs. Even with the low pitch count through six, the Twins lineup couldn’t provide enough runs to keep Ober in the game beyond a Trevor Larnach sacrifice fly in the top of the seventh. 

https://twitter.com/DanHayesMLB/status/1515773502049202181

The Twins lineup have now gone two games with only scoring a single run. Larnach was the only player to come up with multiple hits on Saturday while Gio Urshela was the only Twin to compile multiple hits today, going 2-4. 

The lineup also struck out an alarming ten times Sunday afternoon, a second consecutive day of ten plus strikeouts for the hitters. Carlos Correa compiled a quarter of the Twins strikeouts from Saturday and Sunday striking out three times on Saturday and twice on Sunday. The Twins new shortstop is only hitting .133 in eight games. 

One positive from the woes of the Twins Sunday loss was Gary Sanchez throwing out the first stolen base attempt against the Twins this season. Jackie Bradley Jr. was thrown out trying to steal second in the bottom of the seventh to end the inning. 

Ober’s six innings did give the bullpen a smaller workload Sunday afternoon in the later innings. Tyler Duffey pitched a scoreless seventh and only walked Bradley Jr. which resulted in Bradley Jr. being caught stealing second. The bottom of the eighth was a different story as Caleb Thielbar gave up four hits and four earned runs against the Red Sox and was removed from the game after the Red Sox made it a 6-1 lead.

Cody Stashak made his season debut coming in to replace Thielbar and gave up two additional runs to the Red Sox. The Red Sox then took an 8-1 lead into the bottom of the ninth with Austin Davis on the mound. Davis pitched a one-two-three ninth to close out the game and hand the Twins their second straight loss. 

What’s Next? 

The Twins will play their final game of this four-game series against the Red Sox Monday morning at 10:10 a.m. CT start time. Dylan Bundy will be making his second start of the season against Red Sox starter and former Twin Rich Hill. 

Postgame Interview

Bullpen Usage Spreadsheet

	WED	THU	FRI	SAT	SUN	TOT
Duran	11	0	34	0	0	45
Thielbar	19	18	0	0	17	54
Romero	0	34	0	11	0	45
Pagán	0	20	11	0	0	31
Winder	0	28	0	66	0	94
Jax	0	0	22	0	0	22
Smith	19	3	0	0	0	22
Coulombe	0	14	0	0	0	14
Duffey	14	0	0	0	18	32
Stashek					17

 

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[Aggies7]

9 games played, 5 or less hits in 6 of them. Awful. 

[ashbury]

Boston series so far: one step forward, two steps back.

[Linus]

4 hits 10 strikeouts again. Glad to to see Ober  filling up the strike zone. What was Sanos error like?

[Aggies7]

2 minutes ago, Linus said:

4 hits 10 strikeouts again. Glad to to see Ober  filling up the strike zone. What was Sanos error like?

He would have been charged an error in little league 

[KFEY93]

9 minutes ago, Linus said:

4 hits 10 strikeouts again. Glad to to see Ober  filling up the strike zone. What was Sanos error like?

An average MLB 1st basemen makes that play 9/10. He bobbled a ball too that an average 1st makes makes. We need to be done with him, Kep, etc. We should have traded these players when their value was the highest. This team will be lucky to kiss 80 wins this season. 

[Danchat]

Well, the starting pitching looks good, better than I expected a couple months ago. I am guessing as the weather improves, the hitting will improve and the pitching will regress... but there are several hitters I have concerns with, and the bullpen looks very questionable. The defense has also been brutal at times.

I was fine with giving Stashak another chance this year, but if continues to look like this, it's DFA time. Perhaps they will give Yennier Cano a shot in the pen - I'd give him another month or two at AAA (his command in 2021 was shaky). 

[darwin22]

I will preface my comments/observations on the FACT that this team has only played 5.5% of their games (9 of 162), but a few things to comment on:

#1 Considering 95+% of fans, myself included, were more than suspect about our starting pitchers heading into the season, who would've predicted an ERA of 3.124 from our SP's?  Not me.  If you did, I hate to call anyone a liar, but....

Now that excellent ERA has been accumulated over only 40.33 IP, which can be attributed to a couple of factors:

A.  Early season cold/nasty weather.  Not sure if 1 of our 6 home games was played in 45+ deg weather.

B.   Rocco's insistence on pulling starters as only Ryan (Friday) and Ober (today) have pitched at least 6 innings

 

#2  What explains a 3-6 start with a starting rotation with such a good ERA?  Biggest culprit has been our non-existent offense.  Counting today's failure, this group in their 6 losses have totaled an embarrassing 7 runs.  

Ready for some U-G-L-Y numbers......well here goes......

Team Batting Average:  .182

OBP:  .282

SLG%:  .351

OPS:  .632

Whiffs:  83/ 9.2 avg. per game

Walks:  28/ 3.1 per game

I would argue that only 3 hitters---Arraez, Buxton and Sanchez-------have performed anywhere close to preseason expectations.  All 3 have issues.  Arraez has no speed along with, so far, a waffle iron for a glove.  Buxton, after a hot start, cooled off and is now (ugh) hurt again.  Sanchez, team leader with 7 RBI, has already whiffed in double digits in his 25 ABs.

Really don't want to get deeper into criticism of our other hitters as I believe (hope) Polanco, Correa and Urshela will get their bats going.  I'm also hopeful that Larnach will produce with Kirilloff out for what will likely be an extended absence.  For those expecting a huge turnaround from Sano, Kepler and Jeffers, I just don't see it.

#3  May be nitpicking here, but wondering if anyone supports my very short rope for Caleb Thielbar?  In case anyone wasn't aware, Thielbar, imo, Rocco's "go to guy" in a tight game---has been absolutely torched over his last 2 appearances: 0.1 IP, 5 hits, 2 walks with 7 ER allowed!  I texted a buddy of mine that today's game was OVER--despite it being only a 1-run deficit, heading to the bottom of the 8th when Thielbar entered.  

I don't personally dislike Thielbar.  I like his story and admire his determination in fighting his way back to the majors after being out of professional baseball for several years.  He also has performed well recently...low ERA 3.2 area last season.  Saying that, I cannot ignore the fact that his age (35) and limited stuff indicated a regression that looks like it will continue.  I know Jovanni Moran hasn't been lights out for the Saints this season, but I would advocate for his promotion with Thielbar being DFA'ed in the not so distant future.

#4   I'm sure others will criticize this comment, but I forced myself to listen to Rocco's post game comments (not an easy thing to do) and was struck by the following statement.  "We just want to stay in games"......Verbatim comment. Count me in the minority, which is fine, but as a diehard fan that is nothing short of deflating, depressing and sad.  I know Rocco cannot hit, pitch or field for his players, but I can expect as THE MANAGER he can project and verbalize a more inspiring message than that.  Attitude reflects leadership Rocco.  Remember that.

 

 

 

[Rosterman]

I'm picturing a lot of pitching staff movement come May 1. Who goes. Who stays. Who comes up from St. Paul (Minaya, Smeltzer, Moran ready yet, can they keep Cano down on the farm much longer, Megill.)

 

Of course, Lewis Thorpe, yes!

[stringer bell]

Watched the last half of the Saints game. Chi Chi Gonzalez was effective, as was Megill and Hamilton. That makes me suspect any pitcher. The step between Triple A and the majors could be huge. 

[Taildragger8791]

We saw something like this last year too where pitching looked good through a couple turns while the offense struggled. Eventually the offense improved (albeit still streaky) and the pitching regressed to their true talent level (not great). I worry we’ll see a similar flip this year in the next couple of weeks. Meanwhile team will lose too many games sorting out pitching and hitting before figuring out what (if anything) works. 

[beckmt]

I also would DFA Thielbar and Stashek.  Bring up Moran and Cano.  If you can't trust the pen, a lot of it is replaceable.  Especially the bottom end. 

[mikelink45]

I am in admiration for any of you who can listen to Rocco  - sorry, but that is too much to take.  I know early in the season, but we need a four game winning streak to get above 500.  8 0f 10 batters are under 250! And five are 200 or less.  The BP has Duran, maybe Duffey, Winder who now should step into the rotation and ??????????????????????????????????  

The Twins BP ranks 28 out of 30. 

[Vanimal46]

I’m thankful the T-Wolves and Wild are good so I’m not fully immersed in the Twins’ season yet. I’m quite confident Correa, Buxton, and Polanco will turn it up sooner than later. But this team is relying on others like Sano, Kepler, and Sanchez who aren’t good players anymore. 

[rv78]

The Twins play like their Manager acts.... complacent, uninspired, unsure, asleep, excuseful. This teams needs someone to light a fire under 'em and unfortunately Rocco isn't the man for the job. Why is it the team they are playing doesn't use the excuse that it is cold for their pathetic offensive production? The last time I looked they were playing in the same stadium as the Twins when they play each other. Could it be most of these players just can't hit? Or maybe it's time to fired the two hitting coaches, Rudy Hernandez and Dave Popken. They surely don't appear to be helping anyone.

 

[Danchat]

38 minutes ago, beckmt said:

I also would DFA Thielbar and Stashek.  Bring up Moran and Cano.  If you can't trust the pen, a lot of it is replaceable.  Especially the bottom end. 

It's way too early to DFA Thielbar, he's had two bad outings and for a reliever it happens. He's also by far the best lefty they have in the pen, so they don't really have a choice but to ride it out with him. Coulombe is the de facto best lefty in the pen if you DFA Thielbar, and that's not a scenario any Twins fan should want.

[Aggies7]

18 minutes ago, rv78 said:

The Twins play like their Manager acts.... complacent, uninspired, unsure, asleep, excuseful. This teams needs someone to light a fire under 'em and unfortunately Rocco isn't the man for the job. Why is it the team they are playing doesn't use the excuse that it is cold for their pathetic offensive production? The last time I looked they were playing in the same stadium as the Twins when they play each other. Could it be most of these players just can't hit? Or maybe it's time to fired the two hitting coaches, Rudy Hernandez and Dave Popken. They surely don't appear to be helping anyone.

 

Listless is the word I used to describe them. If they don’t mash 2 or 3 home runs early on, they slog through the rest of the game

[beckmt]

16 minutes ago, Danchat said:

It's way too early to DFA Thielbar, he's had two bad outings and for a reliever it happens. He's also by far the best lefty they have in the pen, so they don't really have a choice but to ride it out with him. Coulombe is the de facto best lefty in the pen if you DFA Thielbar, and that's not a scenario any Twins fan should want.

That is why you bring up Moran.  You can't afford a total question mark for a reliever.  Thielbar is unusable except against a lefty for the 3rd out of an inning.  That is a very poor use of resources.

[Theo Tollefson]

2 hours ago, Rosterman said:

I'm picturing a lot of pitching staff movement come May 1. Who goes. Who stays. Who comes up from St. Paul (Minaya, Smeltzer, Moran ready yet, can they keep Cano down on the farm much longer, Megill.)

 

Of course, Lewis Thorpe, yes!

Saw Lewis Thorpe pitch yesterday for the Saints. His velocity barely topped 90, I think he only had two pitches clocked at 90 in his short outing.

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, Theo Tollefson said:

Saw Lewis Thorpe pitch yesterday for the Saints. His velocity barely topped 90, I think he only had two pitches clocked at 90 in his short outing.

It's a sad case, because the player is seemingly angry at the organization, but honestly what else could the front office have done if he isn't breaking panes of glass with regularity?  So they DFAed him (and he passed through waivers unclaimed) because he was out of minor league options.  Humiliating, because this never happened to Clayton Kershaw, but it is what it is.  This first game at AAA does nothing to deny that decision.

[stringer bell]

Nine games. Not nearly enough to make final judgments on players. Yes, players like Sánchez, Kepler and Sanó have reinforced doubts about them in the nine games, but I would predict that one of the three (at least) will exceed their production of recent years. 

I understand the doom and gloom. When a team isn't hitting, their pitching and defense deficiencies are magnified, such as pinch hitting and weakening defense in two positions and using less effective relief pitchers when trailing by multiple runs. It's darn hard to be patient, but that is really what needs to be done. The front office and manager need to decide who to be patient with and who to bench or let go. They have much better information than we do and they know more about baseball. Of course that doesn't mean that they're always right. Alexander Columé is a great example.

[LA VIkes Fan]

2 hours ago, darwin22 said:

I will preface my comments/observations on the FACT that this team has only played 5.5% of their games (9 of 162), but a few things to comment on:

#1 Considering 95+% of fans, myself included, were more than suspect about our starting pitchers heading into the season, who would've predicted an ERA of 3.124 from our SP's?  Not me.  If you did, I hate to call anyone a liar, but....

Now that excellent ERA has been accumulated over only 40.33 IP, which can be attributed to a couple of factors:

A.  Early season cold/nasty weather.  Not sure if 1 of our 6 home games was played in 45+ deg weather.

B.   Rocco's insistence on pulling starters as only Ryan (Friday) and Ober (today) have pitched at least 6 innings

 

#2  What explains a 3-6 start with a starting rotation with such a good ERA?  Biggest culprit has been our non-existent offense.  Counting today's failure, this group in their 6 losses have totaled an embarrassing 7 runs.  

Ready for some U-G-L-Y numbers......well here goes......

Team Batting Average:  .182

OBP:  .282

SLG%:  .351

OPS:  .632

Whiffs:  83/ 9.2 avg. per game

Walks:  28/ 3.1 per game

I would argue that only 3 hitters---Arraez, Buxton and Sanchez-------have performed anywhere close to preseason expectations.  All 3 have issues.  Arraez has no speed along with, so far, a waffle iron for a glove.  Buxton, after a hot start, cooled off and is now (ugh) hurt again.  Sanchez, team leader with 7 RBI, has already whiffed in double digits in his 25 ABs.

Really don't want to get deeper into criticism of our other hitters as I believe (hope) Polanco, Correa and Urshela will get their bats going.  I'm also hopeful that Larnach will produce with Kirilloff out for what will likely be an extended absence.  For those expecting a huge turnaround from Sano, Kepler and Jeffers, I just don't see it.

#3  May be nitpicking here, but wondering if anyone supports my very short rope for Caleb Thielbar?  In case anyone wasn't aware, Thielbar, imo, Rocco's "go to guy" in a tight game---has been absolutely torched over his last 2 appearances: 0.1 IP, 5 hits, 2 walks with 7 ER allowed!  I texted a buddy of mine that today's game was OVER--despite it being only a 1-run deficit, heading to the bottom of the 8th when Thielbar entered.  

I don't personally dislike Thielbar.  I like his story and admire his determination in fighting his way back to the majors after being out of professional baseball for several years.  He also has performed well recently...low ERA 3.2 area last season.  Saying that, I cannot ignore the fact that his age (35) and limited stuff indicated a regression that looks like it will continue.  I know Jovanni Moran hasn't been lights out for the Saints this season, but I would advocate for his promotion with Thielbar being DFA'ed in the not so distant future.

#4   I'm sure others will criticize this comment, but I forced myself to listen to Rocco's post game comments (not an easy thing to do) and was struck by the following statement.  "We just want to stay in games"......Verbatim comment. Count me in the minority, which is fine, but as a diehard fan that is nothing short of deflating, depressing and sad.  I know Rocco cannot hit, pitch or field for his players, but I can expect as THE MANAGER he can project and verbalize a more inspiring message than that.  Attitude reflects leadership Rocco.  Remember that.

 

 

 

Guys, this offense is only going to go as far as Buxton, Polanco and Correa take it. Arraez can help some as a secondary piece, and Urshela and Sanchez can be tertiary pieces. There is no one else. Sano and Kepler are who they are - a streaky, unreliable hitter who can't field (Sano), and a below average hitter at an offensive position who has an above average glove (Kepler). They are not going to be the pieces we need to improve the offense. And if Rocco hits Kepler 4th again? Fireable offense.   

Our only real hope is that 2 ne players emerge to lengthen the lineup. Maybe Larnach can be one of those guys. Frankly, maybe Lewis, Contreras or Miranda can come up and be one of those guys. Does the bullpen need help around the edges? Absolutely, but it's not the biggest problem. The lineup is the biggest problem and we do not have the players on the roster to fix that problem. We need new guys. Right now it looks to me like we are trading Correa at the deadline (if he can get going), bringing up Lewis to play SS, and searching for starting caliber MLB OFs for the rest of the season.  Disappointing but probably predictable. I think I let getting Correa go to my head.  78-84.

 

[cjm0926]

I don't think it would be a bad idea to create some in-season competition at a few positions. I am not going to overreact because we have only played 8 games but I feel some players almost take their spot in the lineup everyday for granted. Kepler refuses to do anything but pull the ball, so maybe sit him for a young gun for a few games and see how he reacts when he doesn't get to play everyday. Im sure he wont take it for granted and will try to make adjustments. Same could be said for Sano, bring up Miranda and let him play a bit. That might light a fire in Sano's belly going into a contract year that might get him going a bit faster. You know for a fact these young guys will give it their all every play to try and make a good impression, even though they may struggle. Make it a bit more like a High School/ College team where the people who play well day in and day out play, and those who struggle sit for a bit while they regather themselves. I dont want to overreact this early in the season but soon we may find ourself in a hole too deep to dig out of like last year.

[PopRiveter]

1 hour ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

The lineup is the biggest problem and we do not have the players on the roster to fix that problem. We need new guys.

It sure feels that way, but 9 games is ~1/17th of a season. LA Vikes Fan, when a Vikings offense looks really bad in the first game of the season, is it time to replace the skill position players on offense? Might feel like it, but c’mon, it’s just time to regroup for week 2.

This lineup looked pretty solid on paper heading into the season and they definitely can’t underperform like this much longer.
The team as a whole is hitting .187

No player on this team has ever hit that poorly for long. They’ll undoubtedly improve but how quickly? How deep will the hole be when they turn it around? 

These guys have to be their own cavalry and they better show up asap.

[LA VIkes Fan]

I hope you’re right but I don't see anyone likely to improve much other than Correa and Polanco. We went into this year relying on Improvements from Kirilofff, Sano, Kepler, and Jeffers. Looking back on it, that wasn’t very realistic outside of Kirilloff. Kepler hasn't ever really hit other than in 2019, Sano the same, and Jeffers is still developing. I hope you’re right but I don't think this team has a cavalry to ride in. 

[bighat]

9 hours ago, rv78 said:

The Twins play like their Manager acts.... complacent, uninspired, unsure, asleep, excuseful. This teams needs someone to light a fire under 'em and unfortunately Rocco isn't the man for the job. Why is it the team they are playing doesn't use the excuse that it is cold for their pathetic offensive production? The last time I looked they were playing in the same stadium as the Twins when they play each other. Could it be most of these players just can't hit? Or maybe it's time to fired the two hitting coaches, Rudy Hernandez and Dave Popken. They surely don't appear to be helping anyone.

 

Rocco's known as a "player's manager" and I think most players really love playing for him. He takes it easy on his guys, only praises them in public, is never critical and isn't shy about handing guys the day off. We'd all prefer a chill, relaxed boss over a hard-ass grump with an unpredictable temper.

Unfortunately this is a team that has a bunch of underperforming players who are sleepwalking their way through their second straight season. Clint Hurdle or Buck Showalter or Lloyd McClendon would be ripping these guys a new one.

Question is....would an angry manager really help this team? Would a press conference with a guy pounding on the podium, calling out Sano, Correa, Kepler and Jeffers be helpful? As upset fans we might like to see it because we feel the team deserves a little castigation, but I have no idea if that would motivate the players.

Either way, Rocco's definitely going to be in charge this year and probably for the foreseeable future. This team is going to have to find their own motivations to win, because it's not going to come from Baldelli.

[bighat]

12 hours ago, Linus said:

4 hits 10 strikeouts again. Glad to to see Ober  filling up the strike zone. What was Sanos error like?

It was a misplay, but honestly it wasn't as bad as some people are making it sound. It looks like Sano thought the ball was hit much harder than it was. He was ready for it, but he was early. If he would have caught the ball it would have been a fine defensive play. It was definitely an error, but it wasn't the worst play in the world.

If the Twins were winning and Sano was hitting, we wouldn't even be talking about it.

[Riverbrian]

9 hours ago, cjm0926 said:

I don't think it would be a bad idea to create some in-season competition at a few positions. I am not going to overreact because we have only played 8 games but I feel some players almost take their spot in the lineup everyday for granted. Kepler refuses to do anything but pull the ball, so maybe sit him for a young gun for a few games and see how he reacts when he doesn't get to play everyday. Im sure he wont take it for granted and will try to make adjustments. Same could be said for Sano, bring up Miranda and let him play a bit. That might light a fire in Sano's belly going into a contract year that might get him going a bit faster. You know for a fact these young guys will give it their all every play to try and make a good impression, even though they may struggle. Make it a bit more like a High School/ College team where the people who play well day in and day out play, and those who struggle sit for a bit while they regather themselves. I dont want to overreact this early in the season but soon we may find ourself in a hole too deep to dig out of like last year.

Great post

Rewarding bad performance with every day jobs is how clubs draft early in the 1st round. 

Allowing competition for playing time based on performance... is simple enough... yet not done. 

I will echo the "It's early" chorus but it isn't too early for some.

Kepler's performance last year and Kepler's performance so far this year still scream out "I am not an every day player". 

Yet, he plays every day. 

I hope he turns it around but he needs to be fighting for playing time and there is seemingly no battle. 

Somebody should be allowed to compete with Kepler. 

 

[Whitey333]

But the twins are not winning and Sano is hitting around .080.  so there!  Twins hitting like .182 as a team.  As a Twins fan what's discouraging is that they are playing very listless, uninspiring baseball.  If any of you can listen to Rocco saying things like we are just trying to stay in games, more power to you!  This is the major leagues.  Winning is the most important team goal when you are here.  If the manager is here only to pamper his players and try to stay close in the game it confirms my belief that Baldelli isn't concerned about winning.  You can see it in the players. Today I expect Twins to win as they are facing Rich Hill.  I then am expecting them to sweep Royals or at least take two of three before coming home to face the White Sox.  We simply cannot fall to far behind the race like last year.  Yes it's early, only 9 games in.  But I believe those 9 games count.  Didn't they?

[mikelink45]

8 hours ago, PopRiveter said:

It sure feels that way, but 9 games is ~1/17th of a season. LA Vikes Fan, when a Vikings offense looks really bad in the first game of the season, is it time to replace the skill position players on offense? Might feel like it, but c’mon, it’s just time to regroup for week 2.

This lineup looked pretty solid on paper heading into the season and they definitely can’t underperform like this much longer.
The team as a whole is hitting .187

No player on this team has ever hit that poorly for long. They’ll undoubtedly improve but how quickly? How deep will the hole be when they turn it around? 

These guys have to be their own cavalry and they better show up asap.

The problem for Twins fans is that we saw last year what a terrible start can do to an entire season.