GAME THREAD: Dodgers @ Twins, 4/13/22, 12:10 CT

[Mill1634]

That was pathetic. That said, we knew there was going to be days like this, and I feel better that it happened against a HOF and the best lineup in the league rather than a random arm. Get back on the bump. Absolutely have to split in Boston. The twins may have the SP advantage in every game. 
 

until Friday fellas,

go twins 

[Rosterman]

Who can play first. Arraez? Miranda? Maybe move Kepler there? What will Sano's batting average be when he egts his first hit?

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[Azviking101]

Glad for the day off tomorrow. Give everyone an extra day to think about this atrocity

[Bradfoot]

I'm alright with their decision to pull Kershaw.   He has been getting a reputation as an injury risk for the last few years.   Might as well protect him when it is this early in the year, after a weird spring training schedule, a cold day, and staked out to a 6 run lead.  They are absolutely right to take the whole season as the big picture instead of focusing on a single game achievement.  His health for the next 6 months is much more important to their World Series asperations than a perfect game.

[Mike Sixel]

Since the link didn't work, here are the words of an actual MLB pitcher:

Brandon McCarthy

@BMcCarthy32

There was barely a spring training. Nobody's fully built up. Starters were barely ready to start a real season. This isn't some new-age thing or whatever strawman you want to rail against. It sucks.

[MMMordabito]

2 minutes ago, Azviking101 said:

Glad for the day off tomorrow. Give everyone an extra day to drink about this atrocity

FTFY

[Aggies7]

13 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

It's interesting that people still say pulling starters early is a Rocco thing. You literally just watched the best organization in baseball pull a future HOFer 6 outs from a perfect game after 80 pitches. This isn't a Rocco thing, it's a baseball thing.

I didn’t say it was only a Rocco thing. What other teams do is irrelevant. Our manager has been doing it since he came here. It’s unreasonable to expect 4-5 innings from the bullpen seemingly every single game, certainly not when our bullpen isn’t particularly great 

[Azviking101]

1 minute ago, MMMordabito said:

FTFY

Bahahah I meant the players and coaches but yes this too!

[AceWrigley]

1 minute ago, KirbyDome89 said:

What'd I miss?

Umm ... half of everybody struck out, we got 1 hit and 1 walk, and gave up 4 dingers. To say you didn't miss anything describes the Twins offense.

[MMMordabito]

1 minute ago, Azviking101 said:

Bahahah I meant the players and coaches but yes this too!

9 Mile Brewery here in Bloomington has a Hrbie's Grand Slam beer on tap right now.  I hoping it knocks this game out of the proverbial ballpark in my head.

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Aggies7 said:

I didn’t say it was only a Rocco thing. What other teams do is irrelevant. Our manager has been doing it since he came here. It’s unreasonable to expect 4-5 innings from the bullpen seemingly every single game 

The average start for American League teams last year was exactly 5.0 innings. The National League didn't have the DH then so it's a different situation and I won't use their stats. You're literally arguing against the entire baseball industry. Every team is expecting 4 innings out of their pen every single game (on average). This is how baseball is played now. This is not just a Rocco thing. It's not just a Rocco and Roberts thing. This is how baseball is played now. Not saying anyone has to like it (I don't). But people need to stop complaining about Rocco when it comes to the length of starts. Every team in major league baseball does the exact same stuff. Every. Single. One.

[LastOnePicked]

15 minutes ago, BsuNemo said:

is it Rocco's philosophy that leads to the Twins being one of the worse teams in baseball the last two years with runners in scoring position

I understand Rocco doesn't tell them to stink, but I've made this argument before: teams under Rocco just don't rise to meet pressure-packed situations. Could totally be faulty perception on my part, but this just rarely seems like a team capable of throwing return punches.

[Aggies7]

8 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

The average start for American League teams last year was exactly 5.0 innings. The National League didn't have the DH then so it's a different situation and I won't use their stats. You're literally arguing against the entire baseball industry. Every team is expecting 4 innings out of their pen every single game (on average). This is how baseball is played now. This is not just a Rocco thing. It's not just a Rocco and Roberts thing. This is how baseball is played now. Not saying anyone has to like it (I don't). But people need to stop complaining about Rocco when it comes to the length of starts. Every team in major league baseball does the exact same stuff. Every. Single. One.

welp then you’d better have a good bullpen if you’re going to do it (twins haven’t). Otherwise the few good guys you have get burned out or injured (Taylor last year). Implementing a system you know doesn’t suit your team isn’t the best decision IMO

[bighat]

Absolute embarrassment. An insult to baseball.

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

welp then you’d better have a good bullpen if you’re going to do it (twins haven’t). Otherwise the few good guys you have get burned out or injured (Taylor last year). Implementing a system you know doesn’t suit your team isn’t the best decision IMO

They've actually had very good bullpens, and pitching results in general, under Rocco and Wes. First half of last year obviously wasn't good, but the pen was top 10 after June. 2019-2020 combined they were 2nd in all of baseball in fWAR for pitchers. Even with last year's disaster they're 9th in baseball in pitcher fWAR during Rocco's tenure.

12th in baseball in FIP under Rocco. 15th in ERA (were 7th in 2019 and 2020 combined). They're 14th in baseball in starters innings since 2019. 12th in bullpen ERA (were 9th in 19 and 20). 8th in bullpen FIP (were 4th in 19 and 20). The Twins pitching has been top half of the league without a doubt, and mostly top 10 in baseball since Rocco took over.

[Aggies7]

45 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

They've actually had very good bullpens, and pitching results in general, under Rocco and Wes. First half of last year obviously wasn't good, but the pen was top 10 after June. 2019-2020 combined they were 2nd in all of baseball in fWAR for pitchers. Even with last year's disaster they're 9th in baseball in pitcher fWAR during Rocco's tenure.

12th in baseball in FIP under Rocco. 15th in ERA (were 7th in 2019 and 2020 combined). They're 14th in baseball in starters innings since 2019. 12th in bullpen ERA (were 9th in 19 and 20). 8th in bullpen FIP (were 4th in 19 and 20). The Twins pitching has been top half of the league without a doubt, and mostly top 10 in baseball since Rocco took over.

i was wrong to say they "haven't" had good bullpens under rocco. problem is there is exactly one reliever left from 2019 (duffey), and 3 from 2020 (duffey, alcala and thielbar). last year was a big regression and the bullpen had the 11th most innings pitched. I simply don't think it's a sustainable model to continually get 5 or less from the starters. yes it's a baseball-wide model of doing things unfortunately, but I worry that a team like the twins will struggle as the innings mount. we just don't have enough quality arms in the bullpen IMO

[chpettit19]

5 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

i was wrong to say they "haven't" had good bullpens under rocco. problem is there is exactly one reliever left from 2019 (duffey), and only 3 from 2020 (duffey, alcala and thielbar). last year was a big regression and the bullpen had the 11th most innings pitched. I simply don't think it's a sustainable model to continually get 5 or less from the starters. yes it's a baseball-wide model of doing things unfortunately, but I worry that a team like the twins will struggle as the innings mount. we just don't have enough quality arms in the bullpen IMO

That's just the challenge of competitive sports, though, isn't it? Just like shooting 3s is an NBA-wide model now. It's the best way to score, but the challenge of team building is getting enough guys who can do it. The Twins challenge is to get enough bullpen arms to make the model work. I'm certainly not predicting a great bullpen this year, but the FO and Rocco have shown they can get very good production out of their pens and staff in general. The good pens the Twins had weren't exactly littered with top end, highly paid players that everyone was excited about before those 2019 and 2020 seasons, but they were top 5 pens those years anyways. It'll be interesting to see what they can do with them this year. Last year the pen was great after Rogers went down. Pens are weird that way.

[USAFChief]

7 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Last year the pen was great after Rogers went down. 

Can we please stop saying this??

 

It's not accurate.

[AceWrigley]

1 hour ago, MMMordabito said:

9 Mile Brewery here in Bloomington has a Hrbie's Grand Slam beer on tap right now.  I hoping it knocks this game out of the proverbial ballpark in my head.

Lucky!

[Aggies7]

34 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

That's just the challenge of competitive sports, though, isn't it? Just like shooting 3s is an NBA-wide model now. It's the best way to score, but the challenge of team building is getting enough guys who can do it. The Twins challenge is to get enough bullpen arms to make the model work. I'm certainly not predicting a great bullpen this year, but the FO and Rocco have shown they can get very good production out of their pens and staff in general. The good pens the Twins had weren't exactly littered with top end, highly paid players that everyone was excited about before those 2019 and 2020 seasons, but they were top 5 pens those years anyways. It'll be interesting to see what they can do with them this year. Last year the pen was great after Rogers went down. Pens are weird that way.

Very unpredictable, you’re right. 

[cheeseheadgophfan]

My issue today is that the AB's just weren't competitive.  I don't know if Kershaw was that great or the Twins were just inept.  We flailed at pitches constantly not close to the strike zone.....never worked a count......and seemed to have absolutely no plan.  Frankly, it was embarrassing.   

[Mike Sixel]

I'm amused at the embarrassing comments. I think it is awesome that Kershaw as Kershaw today. It is great for baseball to have performances like that (and I'd have left him in if he wanted). They got outplayed. Nothing more or less than that.

[cheeseheadgophfan]

I didn't think Paddock was bad at all.....rough 1st inning and I'm sure he was jacked up.  Defense didn't do him any favors.  They got a couple of seeing eye hits.....I still love the trade.

[Irishman]

Terrible pitching management by Baldelli.   Please send Jax back to St. Paul!

Can we send Baldelli to St. Paul?

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Irishman said:

Terrible pitching management by Baldelli.   Please send Jax back to St. Paul!

Can we send Baldelli to St. Paul?

What would you do differently, other than using Paddack one less inning?

[notoriousgod71]

3 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

The average start for American League teams last year was exactly 5.0 innings. The National League didn't have the DH then so it's a different situation and I won't use their stats. You're literally arguing against the entire baseball industry. Every team is expecting 4 innings out of their pen every single game (on average). This is how baseball is played now. This is not just a Rocco thing. It's not just a Rocco and Roberts thing. This is how baseball is played now. Not saying anyone has to like it (I don't). But people need to stop complaining about Rocco when it comes to the length of starts. Every team in major league baseball does the exact same stuff. Every. Single. One.

It only takes one to show some brain and backbone and try something different.

[notoriousgod71]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

What would you do differently, other than using Paddack one less inning?

5 man rotation

[Mike Sixel]

12 minutes ago, notoriousgod71 said:

5 man rotation

Not sure what that has to do with the post I was responding to, nor is that Baldelli's decision, I'd guess. 

[chpettit19]

37 minutes ago, notoriousgod71 said:

It only takes one to show some brain and backbone and try something different.

This is different. That's why there's so many complaints. This is using brain instead of tradition. Which is why there's so many complaints.

Teams have more data now than ever before and they've adjusted based on it. There are subtle differences with how each team deploys their pitching staffs. Some like a traditional closer who always throws the 9th if the lead is 3 or less. Some like matchup based usage. But they all use "brain" to determine how they want to use their staff. The complaints come from people who don't understand the "brain" usage or just don't like how the came is played now. There's a difference between not having a brain and backbone and not doing what certain segments of the fanbase want you to do. Believe me, the Twins have far more "brain" than all of Twins Daily combined. 

[stringer bell]

I was at the game today and really didn't get a chance to track this game thread. Apologies if some of these topics were covered. From where I sat, Kershaw was tough. He had great command and was a master at changing speeds. I would suspect after playing past midnight last night, it was hard for the Twins to get going especially after being down 2-0 and then 3-0 after the first and second innings. Not much hitting going on for the entire team and that was exacerbated by giving Correa a day off.

I thought that overall Paddack was okay. The first inning was pretty bad and could have been a disaster, but he survived to stay kinda in the game. The fastball was low 90s, pretty ordinary. 

Rodriguez was okay, I guess, until the three homers. He gives them length in the bullpen, I suppose. Jax got the fastball up to the mid-90s, but gave up a long homer. I don't have much confidence in either of those guys.

Not many in the stands, which figures given the midweek day game and lousy weather. Quite a number of Dodger fans and they got loud when the home run balls left the yard.