Kirilloff's cold start

[bighat]

From the Too Early To Panic files: Alex Kirilloff is 0-12 with 5 strikeouts so far, hasn't even barrelled up a ball when making contact.

Anyone worried?

[artoftheWAR]

Nope, not concerned. Small sample size, the talent will shine through. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Nah. He has faced LHP as much as RHP, the weather has sucked (first two games, anyway), and he's coming back from prolonged off-time. All of that will normalize in the coming month.

[stringer bell]

I'd like to see him get it going sooner rather than later. Great swing, good mechanics. He shouldn't have a prolonged slump.

[chpettit19]

It looks more like pitch recognition to me than anything with his swing. I forget if it was Friday or Saturday, but he had a 2-0 or 3-0 fastball right down the middle that he was late on. Got off his A swing, but was late on a fastball. He looks like he's caught in between and just needs to get the timing locked in. Not worried about him big picture, but he seems a little off right now.

[nicksaviking]

Strikeouts have never been an issue with him, so I think he'll stabalize.

But I'm mostly not worried because there are other corner outfield bats in the two levels below him that are also eager to make the team.

[Irishman]

39 minutes ago, bighat said:

From the Too Early To Panic files: Alex Kirilloff is 0-12 with 5 strikeouts so far, hasn't even barrelled up a ball when making contact.

Anyone worried?

Just send him back to St. Paul.  

[KFEY93]

21 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

I'd like to see him get it going sooner rather than later. Great swing, good mechanics. He shouldn't have a prolonged slump.

His swing has looked more choppy like swinging an axe instead of a bat so far this Spring imo. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

31 minutes ago, Irishman said:

Just send him back to St. Paul.  

After 12 plate appearances?

[LA VIkes Fan]

Kirilloff has looked bad. Frankly, he's looked over matched. Part of that may be the long layoff from last year's injury. He hasn't really faced live bullets since July, 2021 - Spring Training doesn't really count. Still, it's not just that he isn't hitting, there aren't any signs that he's ready to bust out any time soon. The question is would it be better to send him to AAA to play every day and find his groove. The problem with that is who replaces him. Cave and Contreras are the OFs hitting in AAA, Larnach is not, so its hard to get excited there,  Upton is the FA flavor of the week, also hard to get excited. Add to that Kepler can't hit and now you 2 corner OFs who aren't contributing at the plate.  Not good. 

Much as I dislike the alternatives, I think its time to send Kirilloff down to AAA for a month, play him every day until he really gets going, and then bring him back up.  I would give Contreras a shot but i suspect that Cave would be the call up.  Still, better than watching him flail away up in the bigs. Watch, now he'll get 3 hits today and make me look like and idiot. Ahh, to dream....

   

[Old fox]

Wait a minute as it is to early to send him down give the kid a chance. Too small of a sample!

[RpR]

1 hour ago, artoftheWAR said:

Nope, not concerned. Small sample size, the talent will shine through. 

Yep, just like Rooker.

[LastOnePicked]

I remember hearing him give a dugout interview during one of the Spring Training broadcasts. He was asked if the wrist was entirely healed and if he felt 100% ready. He seemed to wince a little and said something like "you try to forget about it." It was unclear if he was referring to the surgery, or to lingering pain, or what. Watching him in spring and now, he just does not seem like the same hitter. I expect a DL stint soon, to give him time to find his groove.

[LA VIkes Fan]

An IL stint for Kirilloff might be an even better answer than just sending him down. If I understand this right, putting him on the IL would allow us to add a free agent or someone on a minor-league contract to the 40 man roster without dropping anyone until the IL stint was over. Kirilloff would then get some rehab time in St. Paul before having to be added back to the 40 man. That would give us a time to either sign a guy like Justin Upton or bring up Garlick, Cave or Contreras without having to lose somebody on the 40 man roster. Sounds like a good plan to me.

[Riverbrian]

2 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

An IL stint for Kirilloff might be an even better answer than just sending him down. If I understand this right, putting him on the IL would allow us to add a free agent or someone on a minor-league contract to the 40 man roster without dropping anyone until the IL stint was over. Kirilloff would then get some rehab time in St. Paul before having to be added back to the 40 man. That would give us a time to either sign a guy like Justin Upton or bring up Garlick, Cave or Contreras without having to lose somebody on the 40 man roster. Sounds like a good plan to me.

Kirilloff would have to be placed on the 60 day in order to free up 40 man roster space. 

[Puckett34]

SSS.  But I would like to see Kirilloff and Sano split up in the order at least until they get hot.

[LA VIkes Fan]

4 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Kirilloff would have to be placed on the 60 day in order to free up 40 man roster space. 

Thanks for letting me know that. Sounds like the IL strategy doesn't really advance the ball on adding a non-40 man replacement.  Sadly, the only OF in St. Paul on the 40 man is Larnach and he's hitting .118 in AAA. 

[Riverbrian]

23 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Thanks for letting me know that. Sounds like the IL strategy doesn't really advance the ball on adding a non-40 man replacement.  Sadly, the only OF in St. Paul on the 40 man is Larnach and he's hitting .118 in AAA. 

In my opinion... unless he is actually hurt and needs a DL stint... it's way too early to make a hard decision on Kirilloff based on his performance over 3 games. 

If he is hurt and requires a DL stint... then it could get interesting.

Miranda, Lewis and Larnach are the only 40 man options.

I assume Lewis needs to get some AAA swings based on his lack of action for two years.  

Larnach was sent down to get some AAA swings so I'd think he could use some more.

Miranda... No Idea but he was giving me the impression of readiness last year so he'd be the 40 man choice IMO. 

Now Miranda isn't an OF'er per se but this is why I'm a fan of flexibility. The best bat gets called up when needed. Not the 5th best bat that happens to be a position match.  

Miranda plugs into LF directly or 3B where he is more comfortable and Gordon, Celestino, Urshela or Arraez get LF time.  

Otherwise... It's someone that has to be added to the 40 man roster and a player jettisoned to accommodate. Upton, Cave, Garlick, Fisher or whoever else is available to be plucked off the wire because their team didn't have 40 man space.

Those options will cost us a Jax, Vallimont or that Jhon guy that pitched yesterday.

Some may feel that neither of those arms are a loss and at some point the organization will have to make a hard decision on them.

I don't know how I feel about any of them or how the front office feels about them but I consider those roster spots to be gold so if they get a roster spot... they better be worth it... because they are hurdles to someone getting the spot that is actually worth it.    

 

With all that said... I've heard no indication that Kirilloff is hurt and 3 games is way too soon to make a determination. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

40 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

An IL stint for Kirilloff might be an even better answer than just sending him down. If I understand this right, putting him on the IL would allow us to add a free agent or someone on a minor-league contract to the 40 man roster without dropping anyone until the IL stint was over. Kirilloff would then get some rehab time in St. Paul before having to be added back to the 40 man. That would give us a time to either sign a guy like Justin Upton or bring up Garlick, Cave or Contreras without having to lose somebody on the 40 man roster. Sounds like a good plan to me.

After 12 plate appearances? Really?!?!?

Take a deep breath, man. It's three games.

[wabene]

Last year after 31 PA in March and April he had a .594 OPS and that includes him getting hot the last week. He opened up with a long hitless steak IIRC. However there was much loud contact last year.

[Mike Sixel]

The lack of patience with rookies and near rookies is truly astounding. Truly, utterly, amazingly astounding. 

[Squirrel]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

The lack of patience with rookies and near rookies is truly astounding. Truly, utterly, amazingly astounding. 

Especially when people call for them to play ... 'Play the rookies!!!' Although, likely not the same crowd, but still, a little patience is required and deserved. 

[MMMordabito]

I'll trade you Steven Kwan for Alex Kirilloff.  Deal?

[MMMordabito]

1 hour ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

An IL stint for Kirilloff might be an even better answer than just sending him down. If I understand this right, putting him on the IL would allow us to add a free agent or someone on a minor-league contract to the 40 man roster without dropping anyone until the IL stint was over. Kirilloff would then get some rehab time in St. Paul before having to be added back to the 40 man. That would give us a time to either sign a guy like Justin Upton or bring up Garlick, Cave or Contreras without having to lose somebody on the 40 man roster. Sounds like a good plan to me.

That only works for 60-day IL, not 10-day IL.   You want to sit him down for 2 months?

[tony&rodney]

Kirilloff looked more alert in the outfield than he seemed previously, yet all small sample. I'm not going to worry about his bat for another two weeks. A more important question is how his wrist feels and we won't hear about that unless he is pulled and put on the IL. Right now, I feel pretty confident in his ability to hit based mostly on his swing. Timing can come around quickly once a player gets comfortable.

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Kirilloff has looked bad. Frankly, he's looked over matched. Part of that may be the long layoff from last year's injury. He hasn't really faced live bullets since July, 2021 - Spring Training doesn't really count. Still, it's not just that he isn't hitting, there aren't any signs that he's ready to bust out any time soon. The question is would it be better to send him to AAA to play every day and find his groove. The problem with that is who replaces him. Cave and Contreras are the OFs hitting in AAA, Larnach is not, so its hard to get excited there,  Upton is the FA flavor of the week, also hard to get excited. Add to that Kepler can't hit and now you 2 corner OFs who aren't contributing at the plate.  Not good. 

Much as I dislike the alternatives, I think its time to send Kirilloff down to AAA for a month, play him every day until he really gets going, and then bring him back up.  I would give Contreras a shot but i suspect that Cave would be the call up.  Still, better than watching him flail away up in the bigs. Watch, now he'll get 3 hits today and make me look like and idiot. Ahh, to dream....

   

I agree w/ everybody. Cold weather, facing lefties and being rusty with the need to be sent down to AAA to establish some momentum are viable reasons. Both Kiriloff & Celestino should be in AAA to get some ABs there (Contreras should stay in AAA a little longer.) but the options are very scary - Garlick, Cave and Upton,  

The problem is FO lack of prioritize the need of true MLB proven CF back-up that always puts us in this Horror story. If I were FO, getting a true MLB proven CF back-up would be the easiest and 1st thing I do.

[PseudoSABR]

8 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

 The problem is FO lack of prioritize the need of true MLB proven CF back-up that always puts us in this Horror story. If I were FO, getting a true MLB proven CF back-up would be the easiest and 1st thing I do.

Not sure why the backup CF position is relevant to Kirilloff.  I mean backup CFers don't get a whole heck of a lot better than Gordon/Celestino.  I don't see how wasting a roster spot on someone like Pillar makes this club any better or at all addresses the issues with Kirilloff. 

[Mike Sixel]

17 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I agree w/ everybody. Cold weather, facing lefties and being rusty with the need to be sent down to AAA to establish some momentum are viable reasons. Both Kiriloff & Celestino should be in AAA to get some ABs there (Contreras should stay in AAA a little longer.) but the options are very scary - Garlick, Cave and Upton,  

The problem is FO lack of prioritize the need of true MLB proven CF back-up that always puts us in this Horror story. If I were FO, getting a true MLB proven CF back-up would be the easiest and 1st thing I do.

By this logic, never play rookies ever? Like, I have no idea what people expect here? Perfection from every player all the time? From every backup? From every player? This thread is truly astounding. 

Also, wt? does any of this have to do with CF? Not to mention...."easy" to find a backup CF that you think is good. When there are teams w/o good CFers? Because most teams don't have backup CF that will put up more than a WAR/162......

[TwinsDr2021]

This is way you can't start the season with too many rookies starting, one (AK) and kind of a second (Jeffers) is OK, a team can afford to let one work though some issues (AK), but imagine if they had Miranda, Laranch and maybe even Lewis up and multiple players struggled, then what would they do. (Giving the FO credit for starting the season as they did, and I don't give them much credit ever)

So as long as the vets pick it up a bit (Kepler, Sano, Polanco, Correa) they have some time to let AK figure it out.

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

By this logic, never play rookies ever? Like, I have no idea what people expect here? Perfection from every player all the time? From every backup? From every player? This thread is truly astounding. 

Also, wt? does any of this have to do with CF? Not to mention...."easy" to find a backup CF that you think is good. When there are teams w/o good CFers? Because most teams don't have backup CF that will put up more than a WAR/162......

My thread addresses the problems with  Kiriloff could be the cold, facing lefties and he needs to shack off some rust so I suggested that he & Celestino) should be sent to AAA to get some ABs. Again I state we can't do that because our options to replace them stinks. That has everything to do with this article.

I'm not against having older rookies that have been raking in the minors to get their feet wet but to depend so much on young rookies especially those that haven't really established themselves in the minors and putting them in a position where we go to the post season depends on them, no way.

Psuedo said that Gordon (recently converted OFer) and Celestino (young unproven rookie) are the best CF back ups. Dodgers stress depth at the key positions, Rays have 5 true MLB ready CFers that are better than our best back up. Last season Wade whom I rate as a better CFer than Cave was SF 5th CFer. My opinion, PIT has a better CF back-up than we do. If you have a decent CF back-up you are set in the OF. If you want to seriously contend you need viable back-up at key positions. That's where I want the Twins to be.

Why is this important? Back in the 2019 Sid Hartman had an article (wish our FO had read) that stated that in 2018-2019 when Buxton was in the line-up we won 3 out 4 games and when he was subbed (mainly Cave) we lost 3 out 4 games. During this time Cave was at his best offensively and Buxton hadn't gotten started yet. So the main chasm in Wins/ Losses came from the deficit in the glove. I have got off subject a little only to rebuttle what was stated.