Game Score: Twins 3, Mariners 4 (Buxton Blasts, but Bullpen Blows Save)

[Danchat]

54 minutes ago, peterb18 said:

This game was blown by the manager. Baldelli  is not a winner..his object is to follow a game plan and doesn’t deviate.  Lacks a winning feel. When you have guys in the bullpen who throw 100mph…bring them in and win the game.

They have a guy who can throw 100, but doesn't the "closer's mentality" rule out Duran? Wouldn't it be unwise to give a guy who's never been a reliever and never throw at the major league level save situations so early on? Don't get me wrong, I think Alcala should be getting save chances, but throwing a rookie to the sharks seems like a bad idea.

Would a manager with a "winning feel" have done considerably better in 2021 and these 2 games in 2022? I dunno, I think a manager can only do so much with the roster given, especially with the bullpen losing Rogers. I'm not a big fan of Baldelli, but it's not like they're going to find a different manager who can immediately win more games because of his "feel". 

[jimbo92107]

As I mentioned in the game thread, Tyler Duffey is easy to predict. If I were the bullpen coach and Duffey's warming up, I say to him, "Show me 94 high and tight, then low and outside." If he can't hump it up and hit those two corners, I don't send him out there to get murdered. 

Duffey cannot survive with 92 mph heat and so-so command. That is exactly what we saw today when he tried to close. He absolutely requires those extra two ticks and the corners of the zone. Otherwise, Alcala. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, Sielk said:

The issue was that I looked at his Fangraphs page, saw 4 saves and 9 blown saves and wrongly concluded that he was 4-13. But apparently you get a blown save even if you never had an opportunity to record a save in the first place.

For example, Duffey comes in for the 8th inning, blows the lead (which will happen sometimes in 76 appearances) and gets credited with a blown save. Of course, it was the 8th inning and he never had the opportunity to record a save.

So forget about that 4-13. That was my mistake and never happened. The majority of those 13 probably occurred in earlier innings and should absolutely be compared to his 63 career holds. Duffey's actual 9th inning record is better than that.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/players/2164747/tyler-duffey/splits/2021/
according to CBS he was 3 saves in 5 opportunities, it doesn’t jive w/ FG, but maybe CBS ignores 2 inning saves?¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[h2oface]

17 hours ago, BeantownTwinsFan said:

Blowing games in the 9th is bad, but this team has only given up 6 runs in 2 games which is totally fine. Scoring 2 runs / game isn’t going to win many. This lineup needs Kiriloff <sic> to step up or it’s pretty top-heavy.

It matters not what the score is or how many runs a team has has scored..... if they are up by a run going into the 9th, that's all that matters. It is a 1 inning game and you are up 1-0. 

[Blyleven2011]

I do not listen to pre or post game comments from baldelli  ,,,, Can't stand the bs ...

This was a mismanaged game on the manager and FO  ,   

If he said in his post game release that duffy was the man he wanted in the 9th he is definitely sleeping while standing up ...

 

Acala or pagan ,, Duran pitched 2 innings yesterday  and threw 22 pitches and only threw 16 innings last year in AAA , so rest him yes ,,, 

Pagan just getting into a twins uniform  , they haven't seen him throw this year so he's not their option for the ninth  ...

Acala pitched 1 clean  inning yesterday and threw 13 pitches ...

In my opinion he would have been my choice with a 1 run lead to pitch but FO and Rocco want to rest their pitchers for the long season  ...

 

Just a bad choice ( mismanaged )  and Rocco and FO cost us the game , last year alot of fans were calling for a change in Rocco or they had lost faith in his ability to manage  .. 

Keep watching fans because he is the same as last season and the season before , 2019 was a career year for the players and he did not have to manage until the playoffs ,, he'll continue to be out managed by the other teams better managers , he will continue to mismanage his team as well ...

I have followed the twins for over 50 years and hardly miss a game  ,  twins have had other managers that weren't good  and lost games too by mis managing ...

My point is there are not any injuries so we can't blame it on that  ,,, 

[beterday]

Sano's at bat in the bottom of the ninth made Duffy's pitching look like a masterpiece.  Low and outside, swing and a miss, strike one.  Down the middle at 93 miles per hour fastball, takes looking, strike two.  Low and outside, 2 inches from the ground, misses it by 2 feet, strike three.  Not looking forward to 40% at bats being exactly like this.  Pitching is holding its own so far, no more Duffy as closer.

[bighat]

7 hours ago, beterday said:

Sano's at bat in the bottom of the ninth made Duffy's pitching look like a masterpiece.  Low and outside, swing and a miss, strike one.  Down the middle at 93 miles per hour fastball, takes looking, strike two.  Low and outside, 2 inches from the ground, misses it by 2 feet, strike three.  Not looking forward to 40% at bats being exactly like this.  Pitching is holding its own so far, no more Duffy as closer.

Problem is that Kirilloff is looking just as bad as Sano. And you can't sit both of them, which I think in a perfect world would be the best thing to do right now. Plus we're going to have Sanchez catching on Sunday.

[stringer bell]

Rogers (not Rodgers) was traded. Duffey (not Duffy) is now the Twins longest serving relief pitcher. Both have been around long enough to properly spell their last names. 

[beckmt]

Pitch selection was bad.  Rodriquez had fanned on breaking pitches, why even throw him a fastball in the zone (unless Duffey missed, I don't know).  All the hits came off fastballs, probably not located well.  Find another pitcher and use Duffey in much earlier spots.  Duran or Alcala would be my preference,  Pagan would have been fine. But the pitch selection and pitcher usage was curious.  

[Richie the Rally Goat]

20 minutes ago, beckmt said:

Pitch selection was bad.  Rodriquez had fanned on breaking pitches, why even throw him a fastball in the zone (unless Duffey missed, I don't know).  All the hits came off fastballs, probably not located well.  Find another pitcher and use Duffey in much earlier spots.  Duran or Alcala would be my preference,  Pagan would have been fine. But the pitch selection and pitcher usage was curious.  

That was the gist of Baldelli’s quote in the post game. Something to the effect of they followed the plan, but missed on location of some fastballs over the middle

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, bighat said:

Problem is that Kirilloff is looking just as bad as Sano. And you can't sit both of them, which I think in a perfect world would be the best thing to do right now. Plus we're going to have Sanchez catching on Sunday.

I imagine Celestino will get a start today. He could replace Kepler, Kirilloff or Sano. My guess would be that Kirilloff gets the day off. So far, Buxton, Correa, Polanco, Sano and Kirilloff have combined for two hits in two games. That won't continue.

[TopGunn#22]

I put this on Rocco.  Last year, he totally mismanaged our BP by constantly going to Colome when Colome just couldn't get it done.  Whoever said "If Duffey was the plan all along then Rocco is sleeping standing up" hit the nail on the head.  I don't care if we "just" acquired Pagan and we hadn't seen him pitch yet.  We "acquired" him for a reason.  The guy can close games. He was in uniform.   I'm sure we scouted him prior to acquiring him.  I was certain the reason we traded Rogers and got Pagan included in the deal was for him to close games.  And as others have pointed out, it's not like Duffey has been lights out this spring, Far from it.  I know it's only game #2 of 162, but the way last year started and the way this game ended after Buxton's dramatic 2-run BOMB is just deflating.  I don't have a lot of faith in Rocco's ability to manage a BP and I don't have a lot of faith in his ability to manufacture runs unless we're crushing HR's.  To me, this is kind of a make or break year for him.  I need to see improvement in how he handles a BP and I need to see an improvement offensively.  Unfortunately, with strikeout hogs like Sano and Sanchez he may already be somewhat hamstrung in that capacity.  

[rv78]

Seems Baldelli has the knack for picking the worst pitcher to be a closer. Never been a fan of Duffey. If he can't get guys to chase his curveball he has to throw his batting practice fastball. As history indicates, Rocco will run him out there again and we'll see it until Duffey proves he can do it or not. I'm guessing it will be NOT. Alcala should have been groomed for the role last September but Rocco doesn't have the managerial skill to think ahead even in a lost season with nothing else to play for. Let's see how many different lineups he can conjure up in the first month of the season instead of setting a starting lineup and using it everyday. Nothing kills a hitter more than not getting repetitive at bats and consistant playing time to get and keep your timing at the plate. This should have been done in all of spring training instead of giving at bats to guys like Jake Cave. Let's face it, Rocco is a poor manager.

[CRF]

Unfortunately, Duffey has proven several times that he's just not cut out to be a closer. Good set up guy, but not a closer. If we're going to possibly lose games late, I'd rather see someone that throws it 100 mph in there, than Duffey. Give Duran or Alcala a shot and see what happens. It's sure worth a try. Worst case is...we lose, just like we did with Duffey in there. I also agree...the at bats by Sano and Kirilloff yesterday were abysmal. It's very early, and no time to panic, but it's not too early to figure this stuff out. Last season was a perfect example. 

[Linus]

It was about a year ago after a blown save that Chief threw out my favorite quip:

We chose from Colome when it appears we should have chosen from Colomb 

makes me smile while I watch Sano whiff half the time. 

[Whitey333]

I'm one of those that isn't panicking after only two games.  However, last year the Twins started April 5-2 then proceeded to go 4-13 record to finish April 9-15.  They essentially lost the season in April and early May last year but all the baseball experts kept telling us it's early. .or the season is a marathon, not a sprint.  Essentially implying early April and May games aren't that important.  Those experts were wrong.  The Twins never recovered and played sloppy and uninspired games most of the season.  I'm very like warm on Baldelli.  I think his in game management is often times laughable.  His determination to stick with the game plan without making in game adjustments is problematic.  I would love to see him actually manage instead of letting a computer and all those metrics and analytics do it.  I agree that so far the pitching, not withstanding Duffey, has been good.  The hitting has been very poor so far.  Yes it's only 2 games so no need to panic.  But Twins have a tough April schedule and can't afford to throw away wins.  It's going to be interesting to see where the Twins stand at the end of April.  If the finish April .500 or better, I think they will be in great shape.  If they finish April like last year it could be a long season. Let's hope for a win today and Monday against the Mariners to get back to .500.  after that we have the Dodgers and Red Sox.  Wow.

[rv78]

Sano and Kirilloff had abysmal at bats yesterday. Kirilloff we can give a pass to. He's young and inexperienced. Sano on the other hand is not. Seems his approach at the plate is the exact opposite of what it should be. Swings at pitches he shouldn't and watches pitches go by that he should swing at. The big question mark up to this point was that he was not in good shape physically. This year he came into camp 20 pounds lighter. Doesn't appear that is the problem. Maybe some day someone can get in his head and teach him how to think like and be like a big league hitter. If he doesn't have a breakout year he needs to be gone by the end of the year. Same thing can be said about Kepler. They are two massive holes in the lineup that kill the offense.

[twinfan]

I was surprised that Duffy was there in the 9th. I would have swapped his spot with Joe Smith or come back with Alcala or maybe Winder. However, a pitcher should be able to get 3 outs without giving up any runs but Duffy put too many pitches in the middle of the plate. Waqs the new reliever we got available? We may not know. At least the team battled back but needs to put hits together. Maybe today??? And get Sano down in the lineup. He is a big, BIG, hole.

[Nashvilletwin]

Very disappointing start to the season. Yes, it’s still early, but it’s not as if we can forget that last year was over before it really began. So we are human to think that way and I’m sure some in the Twins organization might have similar thoughts cropping up.

Two quick things:

1. Rocco’s seat should be getting a bit warm. He has not demonstrated that knack for making the right calls in the tight games. Also, I worry about the intensity and focus of his ball clubs. Maybe it’s just me, but Gordon just seemed slightly lackadaisical on his throw to second in the 9th yesterday. Sure, that’s on Gordon, but Rocco as well. Moreover, I can’t think of one young player that’s developed to potential while up in the bigs. That is a really big deal with a club that could get very young in the near future. 

2. It’s not all bad news. Think about the cash and new player haul we will have next year when we DFA Sano and Sanchez, and trade Kepler, Urshela, and Correa. Add in Miranda, Lewis, Martin, Maeda, and a few of our pitching prospects and we should be in good shape for a nice several year run.

So chin up - there’s really no downside.

 

[RJA]

Two games does not a season make, BUT I think it is interesting to note that Duffey has more blown saves than saves in his career.  Why Rocco went to him in that situation is a legitimate question.  

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, Linus said:

It was about a year ago after a blown save that Chief threw out my favorite quip:

We chose from Colome when it appears we should have chosen from Colomb 

makes me smile while I watch Sano whiff half the time. 

Nitpic: I made the comment when they signed Colome, not after the season started. 

 

[terrydactyls]

A couple things from an old fart.

1.  When your 3 through 7 hitters go 0-19, don't blame the loss on your pitchers.

2.  When Sano has two strikes, fast forward to the next hitter.

3.  If Baldelli had used Alcala or Duran and the same result happened, would he still be a terrible manager?

4.  Two games does not a season make!

[tim5189]

As noted by a few above, batting has been a major problem. 6 regular starters batting UNDER 150, team BA .133 second worst in baseball, 20 SO in two games. Must have faced CY Young both games since hitting was supposed to be our powerhouse. How can you win! 

Team ERA of 3.00 tied for 13th, not their fault, even though some runs may be poorly timed. And pitch was supposed to be our weakness.

Only scoring 2 runs a game is shameful get off the pitchers and put the blame were it belongs  ON THE BATTERS!

 

BTW Blue Jays are 2-0 team era 5.50 BA .286. Runs win games, pitchers can only do so much!

[Danchat]

31 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

A couple things from an old fart.

1.  When your 3 through 7 hitters go 0-19, don't blame the loss on your pitchers.

2.  When Sano has two strikes, fast forward to the next hitter.

3.  If Baldelli had used Alcala or Duran and the same result happened, would he still be a terrible manager?

4.  Two games does not a season make!

3. He’d be getting slammed for using guys that don’t have experience closing - there’s only so much he can do with the pen he has been given.

Not to mention that Duffey’s save/bust rate is not as bad as it looks because it includes blown holds…

[Otto von Ballpark]

14 hours ago, ashbury said:

I'm not Otto but I play him on TV.

Julio Rodriguez is a rookie and had not faced him.  As stated in the article, this was his first major league hit.

J.P. Crawford was 0 for 2 with a strikeout.

Despite playing for several years (sparingly with Colorado, a couple of years in tandem at catcher with Seattle), Tom Murphy does not seem to have ever faced him before.

The fourth guy, Adam Frazier, had struck out in his only previous attempt against the Duffman.

Thanks, that makes a lot more sense than how I read the question!

[Linus]

52 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Nitpic: I made the comment when they signed Colome, not after the season started. 

 

Let’s call it poetic license. Sounds funnier after a blown save. ?

[Otto von Ballpark]

15 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I don't agree with the idea that Duffy is somehow 67-76 because of his holds in innings other than the 9th, There's a big psychological difference between pitching in the 9th with a one run lead and pitching earlier innings with that same lead.

I don’t think anyone is claiming that Duffey’s record is the equivalent of a closer with 67 saves in 76 chances.

Just that his record is NOT the equivalent of a closer with only 4 saves in 13 chances. That’s just a normal record for a setup man, due to blown holds counting as blown saves, but converted holds not counting as save opportunities.

[PatPfund]

Ah, the agonies of the early season where these two games portend a horrible year! Or mean exactly nothing, and we're all laughing a month from now about how low we felt.

It was pretty clear Rocco was going to give Duffey the first shot at closing (he was also getting ready to work the 10th on Friday if needed). Which I think is a terrible idea (Duffey is a variable somewhat above average reliever with declining velocity), but maybe had to be done from a team standpoint.)

Hopefully, going forward, Alcala and Pagán will get their shots before the inevitable Duran takeover. (FYI, I doubt Duran was even available given his history of elbow issues and the fact he threw 2 innings in the Opener. But when even your opponents are saying 'WTH was that?' after facing one of your relievers, it might be a clue he should close games at some point.)

Also, for those waving around the Rogers save; yep he's good, which is why we got two good players back for him. Also José Berríos's ERA is 108.00, so aren't we all glad now he's gone? (Or maybe it is just early, and games are 1/162 of a season.)

[Otto von Ballpark]

39 minutes ago, tim5189 said:

BTW Blue Jays are 2-0 team era 5.50 BA .286. Runs win games, pitchers can only do so much!

On the other hand, the Mariners are 2-0 with a team ERA of 2.00 and a team BA of .212.

Among non-Twins opponents, the Royals are 2-0 too, with a team 0.47 ERA and .183 AVG.

[Shaitan]

14 hours ago, BeantownTwinsFan said:

Blowing games in the 9th is bad, but this team has only given up 6 runs in 2 games which is totally fine. Scoring 2 runs / game isn’t going to win many. This lineup needs Kiriloff to step up or it’s pretty top-heavy.

Exactly.

And it's hard to hit when it's this cold. Bats will warm up. Hopefully the pitching is for real (vs looking better in the cold).