Celestino promoted, will be on Twins 28-man; Winder also confirmed

[laloesch]

3 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

I'm a fan of Celestino, but wasn't sure he'd done enough in Spring Training to convince people that he could be the 4th OF. Guess I was wrong? Hopefully his good results in AAA, having experienced MLB before, and being in a bit of a lower-pressure spot (not being expected to start) positions him to do well. If he can hit like his minor league track record suggests, then he's a fine fit as the 4th OF who can play all three spots and protect Kirilloff & Kepler against the toughest LHPs.

It's going to be very interesting to see how they handle Winder: hopefully they have a better program for him than they did Dobnak where they really didn't have programmed time in for him. If he's not going to pitch, he needs to be sent down, so hopefully they have a schedule in mind for him to piggyback starts?

I hope they use Winder in a starting role and not relegate him to limited bullpen innings.  He is too valuable to use in that fashion in my opinion.

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, Dman said:

Was surprised Jax got hit so hard especially when he started out so well. I guess when you give up 6 runs in a Spring Training game to non-starters it is hard for the team to rely on that arm against real MLB players. So not much of a choice but to send him down.  He always looked like a bit of long shot considering there are better options behind him.  Hopefully he figures it out and we see him again yet this season but not surprising he got sent down IMO.

I am surprised Celestino made the 28 man.  He fits what they need defensively but I am still not convinced he is ready offensively.  Hopefully they don't just stick him on the bench and he becomes a platoon partner with Kepler as well as a backup to Buxton.

Jax never had the ability to miss bats, even in the minors, he never got me too interested. If everyone thinks Celestino has the most limited ceiling, the 4th OF spot is probably the right call for him right now. Keep the other options a phone call away and playing every day.

[twins_89]

My impression is Celestino is a temporary call up and will go back to AAA within the first couple of weeks. If I had to guess, I'd say that Upton would be the Twins ideal 4th outfielder, but if that fails Garlick will fill that role. My only concern is that Celestino will have used up 2 of the 5 times he can be sent down before the season is barely under way.

[Game7-91]

3 hours ago, Azviking101 said:

Right? I was gonna take a half day today, now I gotta work all day lol

 

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, twins_89 said:

My impression is Celestino is a temporary call up and will go back to AAA within the first couple of weeks. If I had to guess, I'd say that Upton would be the Twins ideal 4th outfielder, but if that fails Garlick will fill that role. My only concern is that Celestino will have used up 2 of the 5 times he can be sent down before the season is barely under way.

Upton is allgedly terrible in the field, though in right in Minnesota that might not matter a ton?

[chpettit19]

8 minutes ago, twins_89 said:

My impression is Celestino is a temporary call up and will go back to AAA within the first couple of weeks. If I had to guess, I'd say that Upton would be the Twins ideal 4th outfielder, but if that fails Garlick will fill that role. My only concern is that Celestino will have used up 2 of the 5 times he can be sent down before the season is barely under way.

Who would they DFA to bring Garlick up or sign Upton? Upton would be one thing if they think he's got some old Upton in his bat against lefties (he mashed in ST so there's hope), but I don't get why they wouldn't have just went with Garlick now and DFA'd a pitcher or whatever if that's their plan. It'd feel like awfully poor roster management to send Celestino down in a couple weeks to replace him with Garlick. Like you said that's wasting an extra call-up usage with him for now real reason.

[diehardtwinsfan]

3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I'm happy with this. 

When does Friday get here? I'm ready! 

Tomorrow last I checked. 

[nicksaviking]

If the Twins are doing the piggy-back bit to start the year, it's kind of hard to separate the options out as it's pretty much all righties and almost all of them use a four seamer and slider as two of their top three pitches. Kind of hard to mis-match them by anything other than velocity after that I'd think. Maybe Ryan/Duran, then Gray/Winder, then Ober/Archer and finally Paddack/Bundy?

[Riverbrian]

Just now, diehardtwinsfan said:

Tomorrow last I checked. 

I've been waiting so long for opening day that I have lost all sense of time. 

I've been singing "We will rock You" by Queen in 6/8 time and We are the Champions in 4/4.  

Musicians in the house are laughing... nobody else gets it. 

[nicksaviking]

15 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Upton is allgedly terrible in the field, though in right in Minnesota that might not matter a ton?

I'm not a big defensive metrics guy, but yeah TF seems to be a bit magical for right fielders. UZR says Torii Hunter went from being the leagues worst defender in Detroit at the age of 38 to a firmly above average right fielder at the age of 39 in Minnesota.

But I also don't necessarily need a right handed bat in my outfield either, though I acknowledge why it would be better if they did.

[stringer bell]

31 minutes ago, Dman said:

Was surprised Jax got hit so hard especially when he started out so well. I guess when you give up 6 runs in a Spring Training game to non-starters it is hard for the team to rely on that arm against real MLB players. So not much of a choice but to send him down.  He always looked like a bit of long shot considering there are better options behind him.  Hopefully he figures it out and we see him again yet this season but not surprising he got sent down IMO.

I am surprised Celestino made the 28 man.  He fits what they need defensively but I am still not convinced he is ready offensively.  Hopefully they don't just stick him on the bench and he becomes a platoon partner with Kepler as well as a backup to Buxton.

I saw Jax' last appearance and he had some tough luck, but also he lacked command, walked a couple, hit one and pitched behind most of the time. Such a small sample size exacerbates a bad outing like he had. I still am not confident he can get big league hitters out, whether as a starter or reliever. 

I'd rather see Celestino in St. Paul, but he does provide what the Twins need as far as defense, handedness and ability to cover in center. I hope we see a regular left fielder while Kirilloff gets more time at first. I've profiled the ultimate left fielder as Martin, but it looks like he'll be playing shortstop at Wichita. Larnach could figure in here, too, but he is a left handed hitter and not a plus defender.

[MABB1959]

They need to build an algorithm into the schedule that does not have games in MN and a few other states before April 15th or later.  So depressing not to have an opening day.  Kind of setting up the season already sad.  How cold is too cold to play and are there going to be injuries from playing in 50 degree weather?

[farmerguychris]

I like having Celistino as our #4.  Can play all 3 OF positions - which I think is the most attractive quality for a #4 OF guy.  Young enough to still develop some better skills at the plate.

 

[tony&rodney]

4 hours ago, Rosterman said:

And be interesting to see what happens May 1 when two guys have to go back to the minors.

Three pitchers need to go down and one field player added; 13 & 13.

[RpR]

28 minutes ago, farmerguychris said:

I like having Celistino as our #4.  Can play all 3 OF positions - which I think is the most attractive quality for a #4 OF guy.  Young enough to still develop some better skills at the plate.

 

Best done in the minors as his numbers do not look good.

[jorgenswest]

It is a long season. They need him on the bench now. If he is overmatched there is plenty time in the AAA season to develop skills. 

[Mike Sixel]

49 minutes ago, MABB1959 said:

They need to build an algorithm into the schedule that does not have games in MN and a few other states before April 15th or later.  So depressing not to have an opening day.  Kind of setting up the season already sad.  How cold is too cold to play and are there going to be injuries from playing in 50 degree weather?

So, like a third of the parks? That's the plan? All of the central and East?

[USAFChief]

51 minutes ago, MABB1959 said:

They need to build an algorithm into the schedule that does not have games in MN and a few other states before April 15th or later.  So depressing not to have an opening day.  Kind of setting up the season already sad.  How cold is too cold to play and are there going to be injuries from playing in 50 degree weather?

They're not going to have an opening day? Are they forfeiting?

[Rosterman]

Happily CAVE gets to play everyday now in St. Paul.

 

I guess the alternative was advacing Cave as the 4th outfielder. Again, who gets removed from the 40-man for this action.

 

The dreaded 40-man roster game. Now only 12 spare parts in the minors!

[dxpavelka]

Surprised there's not more surprise about Winder making the squad.  Seems like they'd want him to get innings in St. Paul.

 

[PseudoSABR]

13 minutes ago, dxpavelka said:

Surprised there's not more surprise about Winder making the squad.  Seems like they'd want him to get innings in St. Paul.

 

I bet he gets innings here.  With the addition of Paddock, I think the Twins do a lot of piggy backing early on.  We'll see him get 2 to 3 innings every 4 or 5 days. 

[DocBauer]

I think this is great for both Winder and Duran, as long as they are USED. With the abbreviated ST, teams are going to need to use a lot of pitchers as nobody is fully ramped up yet. I honestly will not be surprised if, like 2020, the 28 man roster is extended. Three weeks still might not be enough to truly get everyone up to speed. It sounds like long enough, but it sounded OK in 2020 as well. And then they made the 2020 28 man roster a fixture. And in 2021 we saw a plethora of injuries across MLB and milb due to the craziness. Routines being disrupted can have long term affects. But, we'll see what happens.

Despite the short ST, Winder looked great, and ready. The Twins might go with a 6 man rotation with Paddak, or piggyback, or do both. But Winder is ready and belongs. But he can't sit on the bench for 3 weeks and barely throw and then be put back at St Paul and expected to immediately stretch out. And you don't screw with a talented arm. If anyone gets hurt or fails badly initially, he might stick beyond May 1st. But please, don't screw with his development. 

Some say Duran is no longer a SP, that he's just destined for the pen. They may be right. He could end up being an outstanding BP closer/fireman. But if he harnesses a 3rd pitch to offset his FB and splinker, he could make the same kind of transition to the rotation that Santana did. But I am OK and excited to see him be healthy and build up his arm and repertoire and experience as part of the pen for 2022.

I'm happy for Celestino but concerned about his development. He was pushed way too early in 2021 out of emergency and then took his ability and what he learned to finish 2021 at AAA strong. I really wanted someone else to bridge the gap from him being our #4 so he could develop and really, really be ready. As of now, he needs to be ready...errr...now. 

If Rocco does what he has done in the past...mix his lineup and play everyone...Celestino will play a lot, covering 3 spots and PH and PR, and even being a defensive replacement late in games at times. If that happens, then Celestino can continue to develop at the ML level. I still wouldn't be shocked if the Twins came up with a veteran OF, and I don't mean Upton, via waiver or cheap trade, to give Celestino some additional AAA time to further develop.

But man, it would be awesome for him to be at least a 1/3 playing time option who ran with the opportunity to develop and respond.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I've been waiting so long for opening day that I have lost all sense of time. 

I've been singing "We will rock You" by Queen in 6/8 time and We are the Champions in 4/4.  

Musicians in the house are laughing... nobody else gets it. 

I'll see your hemiola and raise you two off-beats!

 

(dagnamit, maybe it is time to learn new fangled formatting since the last big update. i got no idea how to do superscripts... you win this round.!

[dxpavelka]

3 hours ago, PseudoSABR said:

I bet he gets innings here.  With the addition of Paddock, I think the Twins do a lot of piggy backing early on.  We'll see him get 2 to 3 innings every 4 or 5 days. 

That's not many innings for a guy who only has 235 innings pitched in the last 4 seasons and has never pitched out of the pen.  I'd rather seem him in St. Paul getting starts every 5 days and stretched out when a need in the big league rotation presents itself. 

[PseudoSABR]

1 hour ago, dxpavelka said:

That's not many innings for a guy who only has 235 innings pitched in the last 4 seasons and has never pitched out of the pen.  I'd rather seem him in St. Paul getting starts every 5 days and stretched out when a need in the big league rotation presents itself. 

Well, I agree that's ideal.  But this the current state of an MLB job. Here's hoping he takes to it.

[mikelink45]

Upton has had an OPS+ of 90,92,90 the last three seasons. I am not on his bandwagon.  If that is the best he can do with Trout, Ohtani, and Rendon in the lineup with him I cannot see him as an asset for the Twins.  I like Celestino and hope we settle there.  Even though the reclamation clinic is in place I hope we shut the door soon. 

[CRF]

I hope they don't sign Upton. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

15 hours ago, MABB1959 said:

They need to build an algorithm into the schedule that does not have games in MN and a few other states before April 15th or later.  So depressing not to have an opening day.  Kind of setting up the season already sad.  How cold is too cold to play and are there going to be injuries from playing in 50 degree weather?

There's an easier solution: play 154 and start the season later.

[MABB1959]

15 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

So, like a third of the parks? That's the plan? All of the central and East?

Not 1/3rd.  But stay away from the Northern most states.  There is still snow on the ground.  Someone had a better idea, shorten the season and start later.  Games cancelled so far MN, NY, Detroit.  It is going to be 41 degrees at first pitch time today.  Is that really a good idea to play when it is that cold?  

[nicksaviking]

9 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

That's not many innings for a guy who only has 235 innings pitched in the last 4 seasons and has never pitched out of the pen.  I'd rather seem him in St. Paul getting starts every 5 days and stretched out when a need in the big league rotation presents itself. 

None of the starters are stretched out, even the vets. My guess is Ryan, Ober, Winder and Duran are all going to be getting enough innings enough for evaluations on May 1 when the rosters cut down. At least one of them gets sent back to St. Paul but for now they'll let these guys compete against each other. As much as I'm excited to see Ryan (and Ober), there's next to no chance their rotation spots are cemented.

Ideally, they all crush it at the MLB level and Bundy is the one who's sent packing.