Celestino, Beckham Sent to Minor-League Camp

[Doctor Gast]

2 catchers (Jeffers, Godoy) if Sanchez is serious about improving he'd go to AAA to work on both his hitting & behind the plate.

4 OFs (Buxton, Kepler, Kiriloff and a CF via trade)

5 INFs (Correa, Polanco, Sano', Arraez, Urshela)

1 Utility (Gordon)

5 SPs (Gray, Archer, Bundy, Ober, Ryan)

11 RPs                      6 long relief (flex) (Duran, Smeltzer, Cotton, Jax, Romero, Alcala)                                    5 short relief (Talyor, Duffy, Smith, Thielbar, Stashak)

Smeltzer had a good ST, I'd bring him up to start, if he sours I'd DFA him - he should clear waivers again,   Stashak not sure of, I'd DFA him if he doesn't work out- here again he should clear waivers.                         Alcala could also be used as short relief                                                                                                               Winder is my 1st call up at either SP or long relief.

 

 

[terrydactyls]

25 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Who they pick is who they pick... it won't be permanent with adjustments forthcoming.

However, I will be disappointed if three catchers come North. 

  

Three catchers?  They have two catchers and a block of stone right now. ?

[Dman]

38 minutes ago, Seth Stohs said:

Moran has 3 options left. Jax has 2 options left.  Stashak has 1 or 2 left. Romero has 3. Ryan has 3. Ober has 2. Thielbar has one, I believe. Duran has two. 

Hmm I was under the impression Romero had no options left.  Thanks that changes things.  They can see what he has at AAA then before deciding about the 26/28 man.

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

 

They're not going to find one better than Max Kepler

If your bar is Cave, I say yeah Kepler is the next Trout, But if you're looking at a CF sub on a competive team, Kepler doesn't cut it because he isn't comfortable there, so you are taking a hit both defensively and offensively then we're taking a hit at RF. With Buxton and Kepler they can take up the slack w/ whosoever in LF. But w/o Buxton in CF and Kepler there. We are lucky if Kepler handle just CF must less take up the slack that's left in both LF & RF, it's a losing proposition. There are a lot of better CFers out there you just need to look. It'd be just lot easier if they looked at the start of the offseason.

[DJL44]

16 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

Three catchers?  They have two catchers and a block of stone right now. ?

Gary Sanchez is better at playing catcher than Sano is at playing first base.

[Squirrel]

49 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Who they pick is who they pick... it won't be permanent with adjustments forthcoming.

However, I will be disappointed if three catchers come North. 

  

Concur. However - I will be okay-ish if 3 come north when the roster is at 28; but definitely will not be okay with 3 when the roster is trimmed to 26

[LA VIkes Fan]

2 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

My Opening Day roster: 

• Catchers: Ryan Jeffers, Jose Godoy, Gary Sanchez
• Infielders: Miguel Sano, Jorge Polanco, Carlos Correa, Gio Urshela, Luis Arraez, Nick Gordon, Daniel Roberton (NRI)
• Outfielders: Brent Rooker, Alex Kirilloff, Byron Buxton, Max Kepler, Jake Cave (NRI), Kyle Garlick (NRI)
• Pitchers: Sonny Gray, Bailey Ober, Joe Ryan, Dylan Bundy, Chris Archer, Taylor Rogers, Tyler Duffey, Caleb Thielbar, Jorge Alcala, Jharel Cotton, Jhoan Duran, Griffin Jax, Joe Smith, Cody Stashak, Jovani Moran, Jhon Romero, Josh Winder, Danny Coulombe (NRI), Jake Faria (NRI), Devin Smeltzer (NRI) 

Slight disagreement on OFs and pitchers.

• Catchers: Ryan Jeffers, Jose Godoy, Gary Sanchez
• Infielders: Miguel Sano, Jorge Polanco, Carlos Correa, Gio Urshela, Luis Arraez, Nick Gordon, Daniel Roberton (NRI)
• Outfielders: Alex Kirilloff, Byron Buxton, Max Kepler, Kyle Garlick or FA RH OF, Jake Cave (NRI), Brent Rooker (IL)
• Pitchers: Sonny Gray, Bailey Ober, Joe Ryan, Dylan Bundy, Chris Archer, Taylor Rogers, Tyler Duffey, Caleb Thielbar, Jorge Alcala, Jharel Cotton, Jhoan Duran, Griffin Jax, Joe Smith, Cody Stashak, Jovani Moran, Jhon Romero, Devin Smeltzer, Danny Coulombe (NRI), Jake Faria (NRI), Devin Smeltzer (NRI), Josh Winder (#1 starter in AAA) 

OF - Garlick or FA RH hitting OF from another team in, Rooker on IL to start season, then to AAA rehab assignment, then decision. Depends on if someone decent comes available.

P - Smeltzer in as a long man, WInder as starter in St. Paul, although could see WInder as piggyback/long man on a 5 day schedule with Jax going down. I think they want Winder on a 5 day "starter Schedule" because he's the #6 starter. May need him sooner rather than later with the question marks around Bundy and Archer. I still think there's a possibility that Colulombe makes team instead of Stashak or Duran.

40 Man Issues - Enlow goes on 60 day IL as corresponding move for Smeltzer on 40 man.  Corresponding move for Coulombe harder to find, does putting Rooker on 15 day IL open a spot? If not, maybe Rooker goes on 60 day IL or a trade happens. May need Rooker's 40 man spot for Garlick and my mythical FA RH OF from another team so Coloumbe may be out of luck absent an IL move for someone else. Then he's AAA depth. 

[Squirrel]

15 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

If your bar is Cave, I say yeah Kepler is the next Trout, But if you're looking at a CF sub on a competive team, Kepler doesn't cut it because he isn't comfortable there, so you are taking a hit both defensively and offensively then we're taking a hit at RF. With Buxton and Kepler they can take up the slack w/ whosoever in LF. But w/o Buxton in CF and Kepler there. We are lucky if Kepler handle just CF must less take up the slack that's left in both LF & RF, it's a losing proposition. There are a lot of better CFers out there you just need to look. It'd be just lot easier if they looked at the start of the offseason.

Kepler will be fine in CF for an occasional day, so will Gordon, when Bux needs a day off. If Buxton goes on the IL, Celestino gets called up. I want Celestino playing every day so he's ready to fill in when he's called on to do so.

[4twinsJA]

Most of the offseason Donaldson trade scenarios involved the Twins sending cash to whoever traded for Donaldson. Instead of cash, Twins took Sanchez and his salary. Sanchez probably deserves an opportunity, but Jeffers and probably Goday are far superior defensive catchers. I don't see the need for Sanchez to catch for the Twins- 3rd emergency catcher. Can he hit enough even to be DH, I would think Arraez would be a far superior choice against RH pitching. Can't see Twins DFAing Sanchez since they owe him his salary for the year, but maybe at some point in season if performance poor, may consider it.

[MN_ExPat]

1 hour ago, RJA said:

This is exactly where I am at.  I would keep Moran over Stashak. 

Although I am sure we will see Stashak back on the MLB roster before long simply due to the need for multiple arms throughout the season that every team has to go through..

[Rosterman]

15 pitchers and 13 hitters.

 

I don't see Beckham staying with the Twins unless they are overpaying him as a minor league free agent. Would you play him at shortstop fulltime in St. Paul, of Martin or Lewis or Palacios.

 

Last season we could almost blame Cave for the loss of Lamonte Wade and Akil Baddoo. Now, if he stays, we lose Rooker. It dosn't sound quite the same, but still.........

 

Pitching could offer some surprises. Yes, I would let Moran get time in St. paul as we see how Thielbar continues his run. Stashak has to be on the bubble. He could be dynamite if he returns to his former self. There's like 40 pitchers on the combined rosters of St. Paul and Wichita, not counting a few that should move up from Cedar Rapids. Yes, a few injured. Maybe a couple (like two of the newly signed) will stay behind in Florida for a week or extended two.

 

I sometimes feel sad when the Twins cut people like Kerrigan, Snyder, de la Trinidad and keep any number of free agent minor league roster fillers, most of whom won't get the call the the majors anyways. Challenge your own players in development, especially when you are dealing with a solid strong minor league system oevrflowing with talent and one less outlet of play.

[Brandon]

5 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

My Opening Day roster: 

• Catchers: Ryan Jeffers, Jose Godoy, Gary Sanchez
• Infielders: Miguel Sano, Jorge Polanco, Carlos Correa, Gio Urshela, Luis Arraez, Nick Gordon, Daniel Roberton (NRI)
• Outfielders: Brent Rooker, Alex Kirilloff, Byron Buxton, Max Kepler, Jake Cave (NRI), Kyle Garlick (NRI)
• Pitchers: Sonny Gray, Bailey Ober, Joe Ryan, Dylan Bundy, Chris Archer, Taylor Rogers, Tyler Duffey, Caleb Thielbar, Jorge Alcala, Jharel Cotton, Jhoan Duran, Griffin Jax, Joe Smith, Cody Stashak, Jovani Moran, Jhon Romero, Josh Winder, Danny Coulombe (NRI), Jake Faria (NRI), Devin Smeltzer (NRI) 

Smeltzer is having a good spring too.  He could leap frog someone for a rosterspot.  not saying he will.  just he could.  

[Doctor Gast]

2 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Kepler will be fine in CF for an occasional day, so will Gordon, when Bux needs a day off. If Buxton goes on the IL, Celestino gets called up. I want Celestino playing every day so he's ready to fill in when he's called on to do so.

Let's just get by, seems like the motto of this FO (and others) at critical positions SS, CF and catching. Depending too much on out of position players and unproven rookies to get us by , then use injuries as excuses for losing. Injuries shouldn't be used as excuses, those loses weren't due to injuries it was due to lack of evaluation and importance of depth at those positions. We can't afford to lose any games because we were so overmatched to ever get to and compete in a post season game. We need the best possible defense out there especially when we have so many young and unproven pitchers.

[Squirrel]

12 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Let's just get by, seems like the motto of this FO (and others) at critical positions SS, CF and catching. Depending too much on out of position players and unproven rookies to get us by , then use injuries as excuses for losing. Injuries shouldn't be used as excuses, those loses weren't due to injuries it was due to lack of evaluation and importance of depth at those positions. We can't afford to lose any games because we were so overmatched to ever get to and compete in a post season game. We need the best possible defense out there especially when we have so many young and unproven pitchers.

I said none of that. Nor was my comment at all in that vein.

[Mike Sixel]

16 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Let's just get by, seems like the motto of this FO (and others) at critical positions SS, CF and catching. Depending too much on out of position players and unproven rookies to get us by , then use injuries as excuses for losing. Injuries shouldn't be used as excuses, those loses weren't due to injuries it was due to lack of evaluation and importance of depth at those positions. We can't afford to lose any games because we were so overmatched to ever get to and compete in a post season game. We need the best possible defense out there especially when we have so many young and unproven pitchers.

Buxton in Center and Correa at SS is getting by? Unproven rookies? I am baffled by this post, truly. Then they have Lewis and Celestino and Martin that can play CF if needed long term, two of whom are top 100 prospects, and the other is highly rated. 

Catcher is an issue, but I'm not sure what you realistically expect.

[Doctor Gast]

46 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Buxton in Center and Correa at SS is getting by? Unproven rookies? I am baffled by this post, truly. Then they have Lewis and Celestino and Martin that can play CF if needed long term, two of whom are top 100 prospects, and the other is highly rated. 

Catcher is an issue, but I'm not sure what you realistically expect.

MY post isn't about our starters SS Correa or CF Buxton, they are part of the reason why we aspire to compete. This post is about our lack of MLB proven quality of depth in our OF beyond our starters especially CF. Last year we put all our trust in Cave and all our unproven rookies to supplement Buxton & Kepler and how did that work out? There is a chasm between Buxton and whoever we have to replace him.

2022  we won't have the "juiced ball" and we won't have a shorten season to aid us so we have to deal with our weaknesses. We all want Buxton to play the season healthy, need very little rest and be on his game for the post season but that's unrealistic. To keep Buxton healthy and rested we need a MLB proven CF as back up. I love Celestino, Martin and Lewis, they are a big part of our near future but they aren't MLB proven yet. This problem is so easy to solve if they make an effort. Most teams have better plan D at CF than our plan B

[Heiny]

6 hours ago, Sconnie said:

If Kirillof is the starting LF and Sano is the 1B, then Sanchez is the defacto DH?

I would disagree here.  I would put Arraez as the defacto DH.

[Mike Sixel]

31 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

MY post isn't about our starters SS Correa or CF Buxton, they are part of the reason why we aspire to compete. This post is about our lack of MLB proven quality of depth in our OF beyond our starters especially CF. Last year we put all our trust in Cave and all our unproven rookies to supplement Buxton & Kepler and how did that work out? There is a chasm between Buxton and whoever we have to replace him.

2022  we won't have the "juiced ball" and we won't have a shorten season to aid us so we have to deal with our weaknesses. We all want Buxton to play the season healthy, need very little rest and be on his game for the post season but that's unrealistic. To keep Buxton healthy and rested we need a MLB proven CF as back up. I love Celestino, Martin and Lewis, they are a big part of our near future but they aren't MLB proven yet. This problem is so easy to solve if they make an effort. Most teams have better plan D at CF than our plan B

What team doesn't have a chasm between an MVP candidate and his backup? Really, what is your realistic expectation here? What backup CF is out there? 

And, at some point, every rookie or first or second year player is unproven. 

[Mike Sixel]

33 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

MY post isn't about our starters SS Correa or CF Buxton, they are part of the reason why we aspire to compete. This post is about our lack of MLB proven quality of depth in our OF beyond our starters especially CF. Last year we put all our trust in Cave and all our unproven rookies to supplement Buxton & Kepler and how did that work out? There is a chasm between Buxton and whoever we have to replace him.

2022  we won't have the "juiced ball" and we won't have a shorten season to aid us so we have to deal with our weaknesses. We all want Buxton to play the season healthy, need very little rest and be on his game for the post season but that's unrealistic. To keep Buxton healthy and rested we need a MLB proven CF as back up. I love Celestino, Martin and Lewis, they are a big part of our near future but they aren't MLB proven yet. This problem is so easy to solve if they make an effort. Most teams have better plan D at CF than our plan B

Last year they could have put it in Wade or Addoo, who were unproven, which would have been fine......Cave didn't work. That doesn't make it a bad plan to not spend real money on a backup....

[The Mad King]

I get rid of the 3 non roster position players. Faria, Coulombe (sorry, that name is just too close to the banished one), Cotton, Romero, Stashak. 

[howeda7]

8 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

I'm a little disappointed that Celestino didn't grab the 4th OF spot by the neck, because if he hits anything like he did at AAA last season he's wonderfully suited for it. But he didn't, so playing every day in AAA isn't the worst thing in the world. I still have hope for him that he can be a quality bat who can play all three OF spots.

It kinda feels like Cave sticking around in MLB camp is just some epic-level trolling of Twins fans. I have trouble believing that they would add him back to the 40-man just to have him around for the first few weeks of the season, even if he has turned in the kind of quality spring training ABs you would expect from a 29 year-old veteran with 4 seasons of MLB experience. If anything the twins are more likely to scour the waiver wire to see if anyone else is going to sneak someone through during last cuts rather than jam Cave back on the 40-man, but there's no question his presence is making some people around here twitchy AF.

 

Cave is making the team. And he's playing at least twice/week. He's Rocco's Nick Punto. Book it.

[Richmond Dude]

Several of these rosters have 16 pitchers and the MLB only allows there to be 15 unless one is a two-way player like Ohtani.  And if it is 15, both the players sent down in May have to be pitchers because the max is 13 at that point.

In other words, there has to be 13 position players.  Oddly, there are currently 13 rostered position players still in camp (+3 NRI).  If Godoy gets sent down, somebody has to be removed from the 40-man.  My own preference with the way things appear to be shaking out would be for Arraez to be the regular DH, but it looks more like it will be Sanchez.  And maybe, if all Sanchez has to worry about is hitting rather than catching, he'll do better at it this year.  But that's the kind of hope baseball fans always have in April of each year.

[ScottyB]

I have to ask a question. Today Joe Ryan was named opening day starter and Gray has not pitched one inning this spring. I think everyone expected Gray to start the opener. Is there any indication that he is injured? That would also affect the opening day roster.

[Riverbrian]

18 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Concur. However - I will be okay-ish if 3 come north when the roster is at 28; but definitely will not be okay with 3 when the roster is trimmed to 26

I Agree with the sentiment. 3 catchers with a 26 man roster is the last thing I want to see. 

However, if you think about it... I actually may be more disappointed with the 28.

With the quick spring training ramp up... I am hoping that the two extra slots go to pitching. They will need the extra arms. I think it would be a little on the risky side asking arms still ramping up to produce 100 pitches out of the gate. The bullpen is going to be utilized early and often. 

Therefore, giving one of two extra spots (that are only being provided to teams because of the quick spring training) to a third catcher, a catcher that just ends up being a roster causality when the roster tightens back. Well this would be an incredible waste of the emergency provision and the reason for the provision in the first place. 

So... if you are going north with 3 catchers... you'd have to assume that 3 catchers would also be the plan for the 26 man roster. 

So if 3 go North.

3 catchers for the season is the plan.

Sanchez spending a large portion of time at DH would be the plan. 

One less roster position player slot for someone just to accommodate Sanchez and the Sanchez shortcomings would be the plan. 

Using the DH to provide AB's for Sano, Arraez, Rooker, Larnach or Miranda is less of an option would be the plan. 

I'm not going to like that plan. ? 

[In My La Z boy]

22 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I Agree with the sentiment. 3 catchers with a 26 man roster is the last thing I want to see. 

However, if you think about it... I actually may be more disappointed with the 28.

With the quick spring training ramp up... I am hoping that the two extra slots go to pitching. They will need the extra arms. I think it would be a little on the risky side asking arms still ramping up to produce 100 pitches out of the gate. The bullpen is going to be utilized early and often. 

Therefore, giving one of two extra spots (that are only being provided to teams because of the quick spring training) to a third catcher, a catcher that just ends up being a roster causality when the roster tightens back. Well this would be an incredible waste of the emergency provision and the reason for the provision in the first place. 

So... if you are going north with 3 catchers... you'd have to assume that 3 catchers would also be the plan for the 26 man roster. 

So if 3 go North.

3 catchers for the season is the plan.

Sanchez spending a large portion of time at DH would be the plan. 

One less roster position player slot for someone just to accommodate Sanchez and the Sanchez shortcomings would be the plan. 

Using the DH to provide AB's for Sano, Arraez, Rooker, Larnach or Miranda is less of an option would be the plan. 

I'm not going to like that plan. ? 

I would agree with this, although plans change once the games begin. Going back to Mike Tyson "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - we'll see how we begin this year. Arraez most definitely starts the year at DH. We'll see who gets hurt & we'll see how a change of scenery does for Sanchez. Every manager dreams of carrying 3 catchers. Once Arraez starts filling in around the field, if Sanchez is mashing at DH we'll carry 3 catchers all year, and we'll be happy about it.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

I Agree with the sentiment. 3 catchers with a 26 man roster is the last thing I want to see. 

However, if you think about it... I actually may be more disappointed with the 28.

With the quick spring training ramp up... I am hoping that the two extra slots go to pitching. They will need the extra arms. I think it would be a little on the risky side asking arms still ramping up to produce 100 pitches out of the gate. The bullpen is going to be utilized early and often. 

Therefore, giving one of two extra spots (that are only being provided to teams because of the quick spring training) to a third catcher, a catcher that just ends up being a roster causality when the roster tightens back. Well this would be an incredible waste of the emergency provision and the reason for the provision in the first place. 

So... if you are going north with 3 catchers... you'd have to assume that 3 catchers would also be the plan for the 26 man roster. 

So if 3 go North.

3 catchers for the season is the plan.

Sanchez spending a large portion of time at DH would be the plan. 

One less roster position player slot for someone just to accommodate Sanchez and the Sanchez shortcomings would be the plan. 

Using the DH to provide AB's for Sano, Arraez, Rooker, Larnach or Miranda is less of an option would be the plan. 

I'm not going to like that plan. ? 

If Sanchez is being used as the primary DH, then I can sort of but not really but sort of if I squint, look the other way and say we've got 2 catchers and a DH. But, like you, I still don't like that plan. Sano will be DHing, Arraez will be DHing, Kirilloff could be DHing, others could DH when a break is needed on the field, so, Sanchez as the primary DH won't really be primarily a DH and then it's 3 catchers. I've never liked 3 catchers on a roster. It's a wasted space, imo.

But ... I guess we will see. You know me ... none of these decisions are within my control, so while I have my thoughts on the matter, it will be what it will be. And I'll be watching baseball, win or lose. (Well, okay, if there is more of the latter, I will likely be watching less baseball.)

[Riverbrian]

39 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

If Sanchez is being used as the primary DH, then I can sort of but not really but sort of if I squint, look the other way and say we've got 2 catchers and a DH. But, like you, I still don't like that plan. Sano will be DHing, Arraez will be DHing, Kirilloff could be DHing, others could DH when a break is needed on the field, so, Sanchez as the primary DH won't really be primarily a DH and then it's 3 catchers. I've never liked 3 catchers on a roster. It's a wasted space, imo.

But ... I guess we will see. You know me ... none of these decisions are within my control, so while I have my thoughts on the matter, it will be what it will be. And I'll be watching baseball, win or lose. (Well, okay, if there is more of the latter, I will likely be watching less baseball.)

Sure looks like 3 Catchers is the plan. 

Unless you have a Cruz type talent... I'd prefer the DH spot be spread around to get some AB's to the entire roster.

It sure looks like we will be disappointed because Garcia is most likely not Cruz and I worry that Godoy will be under utilized and therefore a waste of a spot.  

I'm with you when it comes to my level of disappointment.

My wife wanted to go out for dinner and I said "Sure... Wherever You'd like to go". I didn't really have a preference but I didn't feel like Chinese Food at that moment.  

She chose the China Garden... and that was a comparable disappointment.  I had the Cantonese Beef Chow Mein and now I'm getting 3 catchers. 

 

[DJL44]

3 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Unless you have a Cruz type talent... I'd prefer the DH spot be used to be spread around.

That's Miguel Sano. A bat who can't play defense worth a damn.

Replacing Sano at 1B with ANYONE ELSE (Arraez, Urshela, Kirilloff, Sanchez, etc) is like adding a gold glover to the defense. What's the point of having a platinum glove shortstop with Sir Clanks-A-Lot playing first base?

[IndianaTwin]

10 hours ago, ScottyB said:

I have to ask a question. Today Joe Ryan was named opening day starter and Gray has not pitched one inning this spring. I think everyone expected Gray to start the opener. Is there any indication that he is injured? That would also affect the opening day roster.

Gray's schedule had him throwing his first game this past Monday. But since the Twins had the day off, he threw in a minor league game. Sunday's starter isn't listed yet, but I suspect it will be him.

A tidbit I heard yesterday is that options during April won't count against the limit of five options per year that was put in for this year. I wonder if that helps Winder's chances of making the opening day roster. With Gray's delayed start, for example, he could be an easy piggy-back partner for Gray's first start and then be sent down.

 

[Riverbrian]

18 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

That's Miguel Sano. A bat who can't play defense worth a damn.

Replacing Sano at 1B with ANYONE ELSE (Arraez, Urshela, Kirilloff, Sanchez, etc) is like adding a gold glover to the defense. What's the point of having a platinum glove shortstop with Sir Clanks-A-Lot playing first base?

I was sitting in the living room with a freshly opened beer on the end table... I want to be clear that I was using a coaster because I'm not a cave man. 

I reached for it... knocked it over and it spilled on to the floor. Now my wife doesn't want me having any drinks in the living room because she worries about the carpet.

I presented the argument that my beverage consumption in the living room typically goes without incident. The next day, I heard her tell my mother-in-law on the phone that I spill all the time.