How Should the Twins Arrange the Top of the Order?

[Brandon]

4 hours ago, GKuehl said:

While I understand the love for Arraez in the leadoff spot, I just can't justify him getting the most at bats out of Buxton, Correa, or Polanco. That's why I think slotting him into the 4 spot could make a great deal of sense, as he's a lefty bat who can follow up an at-bat against Correa by working the count and capitalizing on any mistakes the pitcher might make after breathing a sigh of relief that he made it through C4. Here's my ideal lineup, trying to balance handedness (which Rocco always seems to care a lot about) with lineup balance. 

1. Buxton, CF (Right)

2. Polanco, 2B (Switch)

3. Correa, SS (Right) 

4. Arraez, 3B (Left)

5. Jeffers, C (Right)

6. Kiriloff, LF (Left)

7. Sano, 1B (Right)

8. Kepler, RF (Left)

9. Sanchez, DH (Right)

Let me know what you think! 

I feel like I am back marching in the Army.  Left right left right……

[Heiny]

I actually think I would put Correa, Polanco, then Buxton due to my belief that Buxton is our best overall hitter.  He has shown he can hit for average, OBP, Power and speed.  Then Kirilloff vs. RHer's, Sano vs. LHer's.  But, I don't think it really matters cuz I think Rocco will have 50 different lineups in the first 50 games.  And it may make sense to him, but I really dislike the way he manages lineups.  And please, no more of Kepler leading off unless he can show that he can hit through the shift consistently. 

[dex8425]

Buxton, Polanco and Correa should be 1-3. Don't bat Arraez ahead of any of those guys. He was a league average hitter last year and he's slow. 

[mickster]

Lets hope the lineup talk here gets muddled with a trade for a top of the rotation pitcher.    I like all of these guys, but Larnach, Kepler, Arreaz, Sano need to considered potentially tradeable for the rotation to form an outside wildcard contender this year.     Unless we can package Gio and Sanchez with someone as well..

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

1 minute ago, mickster said:

Lets hope the lineup talk here gets muddled with a trade for a top of the rotation pitcher.    I like all of these guys, but Larnach, Kepler, Arreaz, Sano need to considered potentially tradeable for the rotation to form an outside wildcard contender this year.     Unless we can package Gio and Sanchez with someone as well..

Welcome to the site!

If you like trade talk, feel free to share your proposals in a new topic in the Twins forum, or as a blog post.

[DocBauer]

Maybe I'll too old school or stubborn, but I'd sure like to have Arraez hit .300+ with and OB% ahead of some guys that can drive him in. Further, I like the idea of him generally taking 6-8 pitches so the guys behind him can see what the pitcher has got that day. So my preferred choice for #1 is Arraez as a DH/2B/3B.

You can put Polanco, Correa, and Buxton in any order and not be wrong. I mean, I can see an arguement for Buxton as a very dangerous and productive cleanup man.

Some don't like the speedy Buxton behind the slower Arraez. While I don't see Buxton being wild on the bases in an attempt to prevent injury, I can see his legging out a few plays he might not be able to with Arraez on base ahead of him. OK, Arraez also makes a great #2 hitter followed by Correa and Polanco in whatever order. 

But that's my top 4.

AK can hit, hit for power, and indont believe he's going to be intimidated by youth or overly negative against LHP, I've got him #5.

#6 Sano: too dangerous to not be here. 

#7 Kepler: Still good against RHP and power.

#8 Urshela: Nice, solid hitter with pop/power. But not as dangerous as those above him?

#9 Jeffers/Sanchez: Lots of bat potential for Jeffers, but no pressure down here as he takes over the #1 job. And I'm sorry, but I'm not putting Sanchez and his bat higher than this until I see some turn around. He's  dangerous here, but here is where he should be until he hits again.

 

 

[nicksaviking]

I'll be the odd man here; Arraez can battle with Urshela for the 3B spot, but he doesn't need to be penciled into the lineup every day and he certainly doesn't need to take up the DH spot; there are better hitters available. He's trending downwards in every conceivable stat the last three years and he's got pretty much no extra base potential.

[IndianaTwin]

33 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I'll be the odd man here; Arraez can battle with Urshela for the 3B spot, but he doesn't need to be penciled into the lineup every day and he certainly doesn't need to take up the DH spot; there are better hitters available. He's trending downwards in every conceivable stat the last three years and he's got pretty much no extra base potential.

If by being first, you're the odd one, I'll be the even one and make it two with this perspective. Arraez's career OPS+ of 113 is quite Sanchezian in nature, and only one point above Sano's "slump" year in 2021. Solid, but not worth building the lineup around.

But Heiny's right, above, in saying this exercise is pretty moot. Last year, they didn't use a single lineup more than three times, and Rocco's never used the same lineup more than seven times in a season. Molitor is actually pretty similar in having 137 and 145 different batting orders in his last two seasons. 

 

Also, for what it's worth, in the last 35 games of the season last year, when they were more or less at full strength, Buxton batted first or second in virtually every game he played. SImilarly, Arraez batted leadoff in the vast majority of his starts in that window of time. 

[RJA]

The top 5 for me versus righty:  Buxton, Arraez, Correa, Polanco, Kirilloff. 

The top 5 for me versus lefty:  Buxton, Polanco, Correa, Sano, Kirilloff.  

 

[Doctor Gast]

I would not bat Arraez ahead of #1 Buxton #2 Polanco and #3 Correa I see these top 3 take an extra base or steal. Arraez painfully never steals or takes an extra base so he'd just clog the base path for anyone who would do so.

[prouster]

I’m a bit idiosyncratic on how I think lineups should be put together. If I were in charge, I’d order it from the best to worst hitter in the starting nine. The table setter-cleanup guy relationship usually goes away after the first inning or two, and I’d want to increase the odds that my top hitters bat late in the game. My lineup would go something like this:

 

1. Buxton-CF

2. Correa-SS

3. Polanco-2B

4. Kirilloff-1B

5. Arraez-LF

6. Kepler-RF

7. Sano-DH

8. Jeffers-C

9. Urshela/Miranda-3B

 

Lots of debate about how the middle slots could go based on my criteria.

[The Mad King]

I like Buxton - Palonco - Correa very much.

[howeda7]

I prefer

Arreaz 3B/DH

Polanco 2B

Buxton CF

Correa SS

Kierloff LF

Sano 1B

Kepler RF

Urshela/Sanchez 3B/DH

Jeffers/Sanchez C

[DocBauer]

I remain surprised about the DH role in some opinions. The DH removes the pitcher and the "floundering" of someone specialized to anything but being a hitter, to add a bat to the lineup. So who decided the DH should be a power bat? And that has always perplexed me in regard to building a lineup.

If you have a SPECIAL bat like Cruz or Ortiz, for example, who can't play a position, or who you don't really want to, then you plug them in to DH and find guys to hit before them. And if your team is good enough, versatile enough, deep enough, you can plug anyone in to the lineup for a half day off to fill that position.

As the Twins are "seemingly" constructed right now, barring injury or just a bad season...forgetting injury factor because how can you predict that...LF/CF/RF/SS/2B/1B ALL project to 20+ HR production. Urshela, if he's back, projects to double digit HR totals. Jeffers, still growing and developing but with a solid/good offensive potential and Sznchez powering what he can, 3B and catcher should provide at least double digit HR totals, if not more. (3B could change depending not only on Urshela but also Miranda). By himself, in a disappointing 1st full year, Jeffers still hit 14 dangers, IIRC. Regulated to splitting time at catcher...which I hope for 1yr, Sanchez should add enough to see 20+ HR at catcher, the bottom of the order.

What in the hell is wrong with having one of the best "hitters" and OB players on your roster being the primary DH and setting the table? I get arguements that Arraez's hitting and OB and contact skills could be valuable lower in the lineup. But he's probably amongst the best BA, and OB hitters on the roster. He makes the pitcher work. Power potential is everywhere on this roster. How about letting your DH, who also plays in the  field here and there, be a table setter to  be driven in?

[justinone]

1. Buxton CF

2. Arreaz DH/3B/2B

3. Polanco 2B

4. Correa SS

5. Kirilloff LF

6. Sano 1B

7. Kepler RF

8. Jeffers/Sanchez C

9. Miranda/Urshela 3B

 

Give me this lineup for the majority of the season and I think we'll be fighting for a division title. I don't want Sanchez taking most of the DH plate appearances and I don't want Urshela blocking Miranda. Unless he is really struggling, Miranda needs to be given a every day MLB job. 

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, justinone said:

2. Arreaz DH/3B/2B

6. Sano 1B

If we're going to insist that Arraez is in the lineup I'd rather see Arraez play 1B and Sano at DH.

Sano is an awful defensive player. They should avoid playing him in the field whenever possible. Arraez should be at least mediocre at first base.

[DJL44]

Checking splits - Urshela and Arraez make a pretty good platoon.

[Minny505]

I'm really surprised at how much people under-rate Sano around here. I know he has not lived up to hopes and dreams, but he's still a really good hitter.

He's comfortably the 4th or 5th best in wRC+ for the last few years amongst the veterans. He's projected at roughly a 114 wRC+ in 2022, pending on your flavor of system. That trails only Buxton, Polanco, and Correa in projections.

He should be the 4 or 5 batter on opening day, especially being that they will be facing a LHP.

Kepler, Sanchez, Urshela, Jeffers...you gotta be high, drunk, spun, something, to think they should be batting higher than Sano. Thank god Baldelli is sober when he's writing out the lineup because the proposals I'm seeing here would make me question what the team is doing.

[Minny505]

5 hours ago, DJL44 said:

If we're going to insist that Arraez is in the lineup I'd rather see Arraez play 1B and Sano at DH.

Sano is an awful defensive player. They should avoid playing him in the field whenever possible. Arraez should be at least mediocre at first base.

This is the Sano crux. I want him batting 4 or 5 in this lineup, but I would rather it be as the DH. His defense gives back about 100% of his impressive offensive production.

[RpR]

6 hours ago, justinone said:

 

 

Give me this lineup for the majority of the season and I think we'll be fighting for a division title. I don't want Sanchez taking most of the DH plate appearances and I don't want Urshela blocking Miranda. Unless he is really struggling, Miranda needs to be given a every day MLB job. 

If he is good enough he will, if not, he will not.

[se7799]

I like the idea of batting Arreaz in the 4 spot.  Who else could protect Carlos to start the season?  At least untill Alex is up to the task, which maybe soon but probably not to start.

[justinone]

17 hours ago, RpR said:

If he is good enough he will, if not, he will not.

They probably aren't even going to give Miranda a shot unless someone gets hurt. I was in favor of moving Donaldson to clear salary for a pitcher (ended up renting Correa instead) and allow Miranda to get MLB at bats. We shouldn't have taken back Urshela when Miranda and Arráez could handle third just fine.