Breaking Down the Twins Signing Carlos Correa

[strumdatjag]

The Twins are not done.  They have many attractive pieces to trade for a top starter.  With that starter, Sonny Gray and the best and most deserving filling out the rest of the rotation with what we have -  That is a team that can contend for the division title or a wild card.  Can we say -     World Series - too soon?  Still - Wow. 

[Dman]

I woke up late today and thought I must have still been dreaming.  I did not see this deal coming.  There is absolutely no precedent for it.  With my earlier comments I will be eating crow for weeks.  As Jaime put it, in the end they did out Yankee the Yankee's.  

This deal is brilliant for the Twins on a number of levels.  They have one of the best shortstops in the sport motivated to have the best year of his career to play for a longer term contract.  They replaced Donaldson with Urshela who will be solid at third base and leave room for Miranda should he force his way onto the team.  They are getting Correa in his absolute prime and there should be no dead years at the end of this contract.  Second base and utility are covered by Polanco and Arraez.   Lewis can still slip into that spot in the future and this buys the Twins time to see where his bat is at. This signing just fixes so many things.

It does feel like we are a top of the rotation starter away from a truly competitive team but I am just shocked that the Twins FO was capable of making a move like signing Correa.  Way to go FO, way to go.

[TopGunn#22]

Yup, now to put the cherry on top the Twins FO needs to go out and get Frankie Montas.  In fact, I liked the idea of making a blockbuster for BOTH Montas and Manaea.  A staff of Montas, Gray, Manaea, Ryan, Ober would be solid.  Plus, with a lot of young pitchers close to breaking thru there would be some depth.  But yes, at this point, I'd go for the killshot and part with Arraez, Larnach, two young arms and Cavaco for Montas & Manaea.  If I can get Montas or BOTH without giving up Martin/Lewis/Balazovic  I'm  pushing all my chips to the middle of the table and calling the bet.   

[TopGunn#22]

Here's the trade I just posted on MLB Trade Values:

Twins Get:  Montas 39.6   Sean Manaea 14.1 Lou Trivino 1.10  Total  54.80

A's Get:  Arraez  27.9   Larnach  22.6  Cavaco  3.0  Simeon Woods-Richardson  5.4  Total Value  58.90

The Twins over pay, but it's necessary to make this final step to remake the roster for 2022 and beyond.  

Starting Rotation:  Montas, Gray, Manaea, Ryan, Ober.   Taylor Rogers and Trivino now close and hold down the 8th inning.  Duffy and Alcala are 7th-8th inning guys.  Pretty solid team, and we have the trade capital to make this happen with Oakland.  

[DJL44]

13 minutes ago, TopGunn#22 said:

 Arraez, Larnach, two young arms and Cavaco for Montas & Manaea.  If I can get Montas or BOTH without giving up Martin/Lewis/Balazovic  I'm  pushing all my chips to the middle of the table and calling the bet.   

I'm thinking Bailey Ober would be a good fit as one of those young arms. I don't think he's ever going to be more than a #3/4 starter but he's cheap and proven. I'm ready to sell high on him. Arraez, Ober and two prospects in the #20-30 range.

[darwin22]

35 minutes ago, Genera10bserver said:

Lineup

Kepler

Buxton

Correa

Kiriloff

Sano

Sanchez

Polanco

Urshela

Arraez

A lot of time to conjure lineups for 2022.  My 2 cents:

* You put your best hitters at the top of your lineup....thus no way Kepler hits leadoff

Buxton-(R) CF*-----Really fits better in middle of order, but is best speed option 

Polanco (S) 2B

Correa (R)- SS

Kirilloff (L)- 1B

Urshela (R)- 3B

Larnach (L)- LF

Sano (R)- DH

Jeffers (R)- C

Kepler (L)- RF

I doubt we see this lineup much, but I like breaking up our LH/RH bats.  Urshela hitting in 5-hole may be a reach, but imo, he's a better fit protecting Kirilloff than the whiff machine (Sano).  Kepler dropping in order is predicated by his back to back poor seasons.  Like him in 9-hole as opposed to Jeffers mainly as a means to offer some semblance of speed when the lineup rolls over to Buxton.

If Larnach shows he needs more seasoning at AAA, you could make the argument to plug Arraez (not a long term option) into LF.  That would afford Baldelli the ability to move Arraez into the 2 hole behind Polanco--then dropping Buxton and Correa into 3-4 slots.  

 

[Squirrel]

3 minutes ago, TopGunn#22 said:

Here's the trade I just posted on MLB Trade Values:

Twins Get:  Montas 39.6   Sean Manaea 14.1 Lou Trivino 1.10  Total  54.80

A's Get:  Arraez  27.9   Larnach  22.6  Cavaco  3.0  Simeon Woods-Richardson  5.4  Total Value  58.90

The Twins over pay, but it's necessary to make this final step to remake the roster for 2022 and beyond.  

Starting Rotation:  Montas, Gray, Manaea, Ryan, Ober.   Taylor Rogers and Trivino now close and hold down the 8th inning.  Duffy and Alcala are 7th-8th inning guys.  Pretty solid team, and we have the trade capital to make this happen with Oakland.  

I don't see the A's going for that, but it would be more than shocking to get both Montas and Manaea

[Karbo]

4 minutes ago, TopGunn#22 said:

Here's the trade I just posted on MLB Trade Values:

Twins Get:  Montas 39.6   Sean Manaea 14.1 Lou Trivino 1.10  Total  54.80

A's Get:  Arraez  27.9   Larnach  22.6  Cavaco  3.0  Simeon Woods-Richardson  5.4  Total Value  58.90

The Twins over pay, but it's necessary to make this final step to remake the roster for 2022 and beyond.  

Starting Rotation:  Montas, Gray, Manaea, Ryan, Ober.   Taylor Rogers and Trivino now close and hold down the 8th inning.  Duffy and Alcala are 7th-8th inning guys.  Pretty solid team, and we have the trade capital to make this happen with Oakland.  

That would be a great deal for the Twins, Though I think the A's would want more MLB ready players.

[mikelink45]

55 minutes ago, Genera10bserver said:

Lineup

Kepler

Buxton

Correa

Kiriloff

Sano

Sanchez

Polanco

Urshela

Arraez

Please take Kepler out of lead off position

 

[RJA]

37 minutes ago, TopGunn#22 said:

Yup, now to put the cherry on top the Twins FO needs to go out and get Frankie Montas.  In fact, I liked the idea of making a blockbuster for BOTH Montas and Manaea.  A staff of Montas, Gray, Manaea, Ryan, Ober would be solid.  Plus, with a lot of young pitchers close to breaking thru there would be some depth.  But yes, at this point, I'd go for the killshot and part with Arraez, Larnach, two young arms and Cavaco for Montas & Manaea.  If I can get Montas or BOTH without giving up Martin/Lewis/Balazovic  I'm  pushing all my chips to the middle of the table and calling the bet.   

I agree 100% on pushing the chips in to get Montas and Manaea.  I think the A's will push for one of the top 3 plus some young pitchers and maybe Larnach.  If they are looking for a huge return, I hope the FO talks to the Marlins about their pitching surplus and Baltimore about Means.  I think Oakland thinks it has the corner on the trade market, but I suspect other teams may be willing to trade as the Twins have some attractive chips.  The point is--let's go for it.

[JDubs]

Remember when people were mad we lost Rortvedt?

[LA VIkes Fan]

This is unbelievable! I live in LA and was just getting ready to go to bed late last night when this came across my phone. I have to congratulate the FO on this. Now the Donelson deal makes sense. Yes, we still need at least one good starting pitcher and probably one decent to good reliever to make this work but at least there’s hope. As for the lineup, I have a slightly different take:

3B Arraez

CF Buxton

2B Polanco

SS Correa

LF Kiriloff

DH Urshela

IB Sano

RF Kepler

C Jeffers

 By the way, I think there are two more moves coming. One is to trade prospect capital for a starting pitcher either with the A’s, Marlins, or maybe even the Reds. The second is to sign another outfielder to either start in left field or be the fourth outfielder. I think that Michael Conforto, Kevin Pillar, and Tommy Pham are all still available and I’m guessing prices are starting to come down since they haven’t yet landed that contract. May not happen, but after last night a guy can dream….

 

 

[DJL44]

14 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

One is to trade prospect capital for a starting pitcher either with the A’s, Marlins, or maybe even the Reds. 

I keep wondering what it would cost to grab Dinelson Lamet out of the Padres bullpen.

[LA VIkes Fan]

Two really great qotes in that article. The first is from Polanco saying we are going to be a really good team. That’s buy in from your BEST player and a guy who can lead the others. You start there and now this team is going to expect to win, not just hope they can win.  Second is from Lewis saying he’s not upset but it would be a different story if he was on the big league team. That’s a guy who wants to OWN the shortstop position and thinks that he’s good enough to play with the likes of Carlos Correa. That’s the kind of guy you want as your best prospect.

It’s amazing how getting a player like this can improve the outlook and attitude of your entire team. Now, let’s get a pitcher!

 

[Genera10bserver]

I am in the minority here but I like Sanchez as primary C and Jeffers to catch Gray. Hope Sanchez big bat and adequate catching come back with change of scenery from NY. And Sanchez can bat after Sano to protect him. Urshela 3B occasionally spelled by Machado. Gordon is the IF utility guy. Arraez LF, assuming Larnach and Lewis traded for Montas. Bundy as 3rd or 4th SP is adequate with Ryan and Ober rounding out the rotation.

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, TopGunn#22 said:

Here's the trade I just posted on MLB Trade Values:

Twins Get:  Montas 39.6   Sean Manaea 14.1 Lou Trivino 1.10  Total  54.80

A's Get:  Arraez  27.9   Larnach  22.6  Cavaco  3.0  Simeon Woods-Richardson  5.4  Total Value  58.90

The Twins over pay, but it's necessary to make this final step to remake the roster for 2022 and beyond.  

Starting Rotation:  Montas, Gray, Manaea, Ryan, Ober.   Taylor Rogers and Trivino now close and hold down the 8th inning.  Duffy and Alcala are 7th-8th inning guys.  Pretty solid team, and we have the trade capital to make this happen with Oakland.  

Love this trade, it'd really make our pitching awsome w/ very little pain. We have suffered for many years with depth at the key positions SS & CF so we really need both Lewis and Martin (you can't break up this awsome team). They could fill in anywhere, they'll add great depth through out the field (except Catcher or pitcher). They'd make many players absolete, thus available for trading.

[gil4]

7 minutes ago, Genera10bserver said:

Urshela 3B occasionally spelled by Machado. 

Did we make another trade that I didn't hear about? ?

I'd say Miranda (pretty sure that's who you meant) needs to play full time somewhere, and Urshela might have to adapt to a utility role.

[roger]

Holy crap!

There has to be more deals coming as they have too many players suited best to DH, Sano and Sanchez, and infielders.  Expect one of the Yankee infielder or Arraez, plus a couple prospects, is going elsewhere for a good starting pitcher.

WOW!

[Doctor Gast]

56 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

This is unbelievable! I live in LA and was just getting ready to go to bed late last night when this came across my phone. I have to congratulate the FO on this. Now the Donelson deal makes sense. Yes, we still need at least one good starting pitcher and probably one decent to good reliever to make this work but at least there’s hope. As for the lineup, I have a slightly different take:

3B Arraez

CF Buxton

2B Polanco

SS Correa

LF Kiriloff

DH Urshela

IB Sano

RF Kepler

C Jeffers

 By the way, I think there are two more moves coming. One is to trade prospect capital for a starting pitcher either with the A’s, Marlins, or maybe even the Reds. The second is to sign another outfielder to either start in left field or be the fourth outfielder. I think that Michael Conforto, Kevin Pillar, and Tommy Pham are all still available and I’m guessing prices are starting to come down since they haven’t yet landed that contract. May not happen, but after last night a guy can dream….

 

 

I like your idea LA, we really need a 4th OF, a true MLB ready CF used as Buxton insurance. I've changed my stance, I wouldn't put Arraez lead-off because he'll clog the base paths for Buxton, Polanco and Correa. I'd put him ahead of Sano'.

[tony&rodney]

4 hours ago, twinssporto said:

This move should also energize the other Twins players

Yes, this. Josh Donaldson was a force always pushing everyone especially himself and despite many fans being put off at times by his aura, players liked his energy. Correa is a star player with panache, like Buxton, and this raises the bar for the entire team. Great signing, no matter what happens.

[BH67]

"The delicious irony of trading the expensive contract of aging third baseman Josh Donaldson, only to sign the All-Star shortstop coveted by the Yankees with the newly-freed funds, is a breathtakingly brazen and exquisite move almost too delightful to put into words. "

Falvine is fine with me for just this reason.

[Squirrel]

2 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

This is unbelievable! I live in LA and was just getting ready to go to bed late last night when this came across my phone. I have to congratulate the FO on this. Now the Donelson deal makes sense. Yes, we still need at least one good starting pitcher and probably one decent to good reliever to make this work but at least there’s hope. As for the lineup, I have a slightly different take:

3B Arraez

CF Buxton

2B Polanco

SS Correa

LF Kiriloff

DH Urshela

IB Sano

RF Kepler

C Jeffers

 By the way, I think there are two more moves coming. One is to trade prospect capital for a starting pitcher either with the A’s, Marlins, or maybe even the Reds. The second is to sign another outfielder to either start in left field or be the fourth outfielder. I think that Michael Conforto, Kevin Pillar, and Tommy Pham are all still available and I’m guessing prices are starting to come down since they haven’t yet landed that contract. May not happen, but after last night a guy can dream….

 

 

I don't see Arraez as our starting 3B ... if he's even still on the team come opening day

[Mark G]

The fan in me has goose bumps all over and a @#$% eatin grin on my face.  The cynic in me (which has come over time with this FO) has me wondering if this, in the end, will turn out to be a 4 month stint up until the trade deadline.  It is, in effect, a one year contract with a player option for two more.  If a player like Correa has a contract type year, what are the odds of keeping him?  Which would mean a trade if we are out of it.  

We are all wondering how the Twins suddenly became the destination of choice for a major star.  I know I am.  And I have to wonder if it is not..........not really.  It is a quick stop in a lightning round off season, making Correa a bundle, while reassessing his options as the year goes by.  I have a hard time trusting the player to stay anymore than I trust the FO to sign top players to top contracts.  But I am going to enjoy the ride as long as it lasts.  And I, also, assume more deals are coming; probably a trade or two.  I will keep my eyes on Twins Daily.  

[ashbury]

3 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

Here's the trade I just posted on MLB Trade Values:

Twins Get:  Montas 39.6   Sean Manaea 14.1 Lou Trivino 1.10  Total  54.80

A's Get:  Arraez  27.9   Larnach  22.6  Cavaco  3.0  Simeon Woods-Richardson  5.4  Total Value  58.90

The Twins over pay, but it's necessary to make this final step to remake the roster for 2022 and beyond.  

Starting Rotation:  Montas, Gray, Manaea, Ryan, Ober.   Taylor Rogers and Trivino now close and hold down the 8th inning.  Duffy and Alcala are 7th-8th inning guys.  Pretty solid team, and we have the trade capital to make this happen with Oakland.  

Getting two major league pitchers and giving up only one pitching prospect would be the steal of the century.  Not going to happen.  Position players who aren't up-the-middle are over valued in MLBTV.

[DocBauer]

Forgive me, but too much to say! I was asleep when this happened, caught the news in the morning, and even working a short day I am PAGES late to commenting. Therefore, going to concentrate my thoughts here.

The first is HUH? WOW!! I never saw this coming even though for a split second yesterday...after reading about other teams "in" on Story...I wondered about a switch to Correa, maybe on a short 1yr deal, but quickly dismissed it as fantasy.

The second is, after reading about numerous teams being in on Story, and ZERO positive news for days, I was feeling pretty confused and pessimistic and had previously posted under the "positional catcher report" that I was feeling pretty bummed. I believe my words were "disappointed" and "apathetic" and felt like I was coming down from a high with baseball back and some of the early moves. Apparently I wasn't the only one from "likes" and other poster's comments..

WOW, what a difference a day makes!

I have largely been supportive of our FO from day one for everything from drafts, to signings and trades, to the hiring of personnel, to the total revamp of the system and the way of doing things. I've defended them on many occasions, but I'd like to believe I've been fair to also criticize them when I've questioned their decisions/actions at times.

Fellow Midwesterners like myself, born and raised,  will understand I've always had a love/hate-hate relationship with the month of March. (11yrs in SD, 55yrs in Nebraska where the weather turns on a dime). Invariably, March teases an early Spring only to deceive days later. And EVERY SINGLE YEAR I remind myself to NOT fall for it's ploy. Such is the same for our FO. I know and understand how they work. And again, I have largely applauded their approach, with disagreements I have been clear to state when I felt was necessary. I was enthused after the first 2 trades, and dumbfounded and filled with anxiety after the Yankees deal. 

I apologize for being so negative previously, especially to myself for not just waiting. I should have known better. Even when the FO seems to be distressingly "over patient" they have almost always made "smart" moves...even if they don't turn out. (Witness Happ, Shoemaker, Colome). 

But to move on...

I applaud getting out of the Donaldson deal. His signing was unexpected, but actually made sense at the time. It also showed this wasn't the older, more traditional Twins way of doing things. Previous FO's wouldn't have taken that shot, and probably wouldn't have made the Maeda and Cruz moves either. They sure as hell wouldn't have played the game of MLB chess that we're seeing right now!

Thirdly, if the initial Donaldson signing, a couple of years pushing payroll, various reports from agents as to how professional and generally pro-active the Twins were in arbitration cases, hasn't changed the perception of how this FO operates, THIS signing moves the needle as to how this team operates. They may be frugal, (Not a bad thing considering revenues and market place), they may be calculated and hopefully smart, but they aren't "cheap". (Yes, I am aware of continuing debate on this topic).

Fourth, I really wish the opt out was after the 2nd year. But that was never going to happen. But for 2022, at least...things could change...the Twins made a MAJOR move to fill a hole with the top available player at his position. It not only brings enthusiasm to the fans, but also the players. 

It also allows at least 1yr to re-set the time table for prospects like Lewis, Martin, and even the somewhat forgotten Palacios. I fully expect Lewis to be the SS of the future, barring Martin having a lightbulb turning on. But what if the new-found bat of Palcios is real and his winter league numbers are a sign he's actually going to hit at the ML level with his defense? 

Fifth consideration, even ONE YEAR of Correa not only makes the team and lineup better, but his presence as a top of the order hitter also brings less pressure for other young players. Not sure that's even been considered by some. Another trade for a SP seems a given, so names could change. But his presence could make the transition for Kiriloff, Larnach and Miranda that much easier for 2022. (Urshela can also help here in a smaller capacity).

Final comment: I really, really wish the Twins had made ONE commitment, besides, besides the Bundy flier, to one of the many FA SP that were available before the lockout. The annual value might have be en more than a trade target financial cost, but it would have come without a prospect cost.But we're past that point now.

Now it's about  ONE MORE SP via trade to make a difference.  I don't want to sacrifice the future just for 2022. But the originizational depth is there to make another move.

 

 

[twinssporto]

4 hours ago, BH67 said:

"The delicious irony of trading the expensive contract of aging third baseman Josh Donaldson, only to sign the All-Star shortstop coveted by the Yankees with the newly-freed funds, is a breathtakingly brazen and exquisite move almost too delightful to put into words. "

Falvine is fine with me for just this reason.

Truer words never spoken. So nice to see!

[tony&rodney]

4 hours ago, ashbury said:

7 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

Here's the trade I just posted on MLB Trade Values:

Twins Get:  Montas 39.6   Sean Manaea 14.1 Lou Trivino 1.10  Total  54.80

A's Get:  Arraez  27.9   Larnach  22.6  Cavaco  3.0  Simeon Woods-Richardson  5.4  Total Value  58.90

The Twins over pay, but it's necessary to make this final step to remake the roster for 2022 and beyond.  

Starting Rotation:  Montas, Gray, Manaea, Ryan, Ober.   Taylor Rogers and Trivino now close and hold down the 8th inning.  Duffy and Alcala are 7th-8th inning guys.  Pretty solid team, and we have the trade capital to make this happen with Oakland.  

Expand  

Getting two major league pitchers and giving up only one pitching prospect would be the steal of the century.  Not going to happen.  Position players who aren't up-the-middle are over valued in MLBTV.

What if the Twins added Duran and Strotman in a 6 for 3 trade? Is that fair or realistic. I haven't thought about this too much.

[ashbury]

22 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

What if the Twins added Duran and Strotman in a 6 for 3 trade? Is that fair or realistic. I haven't thought about this too much.

Probably moves the needle some.  Depends on how the other team views the specific players of course, and what other offers are out there, but all that's true of any proposed trade.  I'm thinking that specific 6-for-3 package is still light in terms of prospect arms, and the A's might choose a different team offering top-100 prospects.

[FrankQuilicy]

I'm no expert but whats wrong now with a blockbuster deal that nets us Montas, Manea, Trivino, and Murphy? Somebody is gonna get all of them anyway. I don't see why we need Sanchez, Rooker, and pick any pitcher....Jax, Dobnak, Duran, Richardson, etc, etc. You could toss Jeffers into that heap too. Murphy has tons of upside and yes, I am aware of that little trouble he got into in Scottsdale. That's behind him now. I just wish he was a left handed hitter. We are way too right handed A.t.m.

[IndianaTwin]

2 hours ago, DocBauer said:

<snip>.

Even when the FO seems to be distressingly "over patient" they have almost always made "smart" moves...even if they don't turn out. (Witness Happ, Shoemaker, Colome). 

<snip>

Now it's about  ONE MORE SP via trade to make a difference.  I don't want to sacrifice the future just for 2022. But the originizational depth is there to make another move.

 

 

So much to agree with here, Doc, particularly the two comments I snipped. I will stake a claim to have been saying, “I told you so,” to TD, however, in sensing there was more to come. That’s part of the new definition of the “Twins Way,” to my observation. Patience seems to be part of the mission statement.

Consider this: In a “normal” year, there are 120 days from Dec. 1 to Opening Day. They lost most of that, but picked up a week on the back end. They essentially have 25 days to do 100 days of work. Said another way, if one day equals four in the post lockout world and we’ve got about 17 days to opening day, it’s kinda like Feb. 1 in a “normal” year. And Odorizzi and Donaldson are two excellent moves they made after that date in past years. So…

Prediction No. 1: There will be a move for a legit starting pitcher (and note that by “legit,” I’m looking at it from the end of the season, not from what those of us on TD think on Opening Day.) 

Prediction No. 2: It will be someone completely off the TD radar. Many, if not most, of their best moves were ones that took us by surprise.

Prediction No. 3: It won’t cost as much as we think. I circle back to Palacios for Odorizzi. They haven’t put this much effort into building minor league assets to give them away.

Those are general comments to TD.

To you, Doc, a life coach comment from an Iowa native who’s lived in northern Indiana my adult life and who travels to Nebraska and South Dakota regularly for work. ?

Don’t even think of moving here! Appreciate what you have. Thanks to clouds off the lake, we say goodbye to the sun on Nov. 1 and welcome it back on April 1. And thanks to the moisture in those clouds, 10 degrees here feels so much worse than 10 degrees there — it goes to the bone. I was in Sioux Falls in late February, and I’ll take 10 below there over 10 above here.

The grass isn’t greener on this side of the fence. It’s buried under a pile of gray slush.