Grade the Garver for Kiner-Falefa Trade

[cHawk]

The Twins have reportedly traded Mitch Garver to the Rangers in exchange for Isaiah Kiner-Falefa (and a throw-in).

What do you think of this trade?

[Brock Beauchamp]

I would give it a C-/D+ but given the options, I went with D. I'm not a fan of this trade but it's also not as terrible as people are portraying it to be.

[h2oface]

F-

[dex8425]

Makes the team worse overall. Why not just sign Simmons again and keep Garver or trade Garver for pitching?!

[specialiststeve]

Given that we needed to fill the SS postion to keep Polonco at 2nd... is a very GOOD trade. The man plays Gold Glove defense and can hit and steal bases. 271 ave with 8 HR and 20 SB. Also is an everyday player unlike Garver who would be platooning... 

Very nice front office.. keep the quality moves coming!!

[Squirrel]

I'm warming up to this a bit ... or maybe just becoming resigned to it ... at the time, it was a D, now I'm grading it a C, and we'll see where I'm at come opening day

[Nine of twelve]

The correct grade is not listed on the poll. Trying to grade a pre-spring-training trade that is less than 12 hours old is an exercise in futility. There is no justification for any grade other than an incomplete.

[Squirrel]

6 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

The correct grade is not listed on the poll. Trying to grade a pre-spring-training trade that is less than 12 hours old is an exercise in futility. There is no justification for any grade other than an incomplete.

There is an option for 'idk' which should suffice for incomplete

[Nine of twelve]

8 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

There is an option for 'idk' which should suffice for incomplete

No, it's not that I don't know what grade to assign. I do know.

[Squirrel]

12 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

No, it's not that I don't know what grade to assign. I do know.

Work with it. Live with it. Nothing is perfect. And the answer you don't know because the results are incomplete.

[Mike Sixel]

I gave it a C, on the tiny chance the minor league player has value. They aren't competing this year, so trading a real asset for a short term player makes zero sense. Therefore, the minor league guy better be good, or they wasted an asset. 

[USAFChief]

F.

Because it sends one last, irrefutable message this FO/ownership isn't serious about doing what it takes to seriously compete. I had hopes when they were hired,and for a couple years, that the bad old days of "we don't need THE guy, we just need A guy" were over.

They're not. 

[Karbo]

I think it shows us the FO is not really serious about trying to be competitive this season. IFK is a good player, don't get me wrong, but we now have a probable position of weakness offensively at catcher. Granted you gotta give to get, but was this truly the best place to get? Still no pitching, now we lose a big bat, and I just don't see how this team can outscore too many other teams. Grade D+ 

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, Karbo said:

I think it shows us the FO is not really serious about trying to be competitive this season. IFK is a good player, don't get me wrong, but we now have a probable position of weakness offensively at catcher. Granted you gotta give to get, but was this truly the best place to get? Still no pitching, now we lose a big bat, and I just don't see how this team can outscore too many other teams. Grade D+ 

My opinion, I think getting IFK is a good get, helps the hole at SS, he costs more than Garver so the FO can say they are spending, he is a Arb 3 next year so if he isn't good they can cut ties if Lewis or Martin are ready, if he is good they can go to Arb. On the down side trading Garver to get him seems weird, people think the Twins have a strength at catching, so I guess plan B is some AAA catcher?  Seems like this FO just can never have a Plan B, So if Jeffers isn't really good, they didn't actually make the team better, lateral move that cost a couple of million. So unless the pitcher that is already on the 40 is good MLB pitcher, seems like a questionable move, when they seem to have a better group of assets to trade from.

[gunnarthor]

I gave it a B assuming it's not the last move but just one of many that will let this team compete this year. We have a playoff caliber offense, at least on paper. FO had to improve some major things, one of which was up the middle defense. This is step one, we've gotten a lot better at the most important IF position. And considering how much this FO values ground ball pitchers, this was needed. We still need to upgrade the entirety of the pitching staff but this move helps. It's also the kind of move that this franchise has to do, because we can't solve our problems in FA. 

Lastly, Garver is a solid player but frankly this feels like a really good time to trade him, rather than waiting a year too long, it arguably helps this year and it doesn't hurt the future. 

[cHawk]

2 hours ago, Karbo said:

I think it shows us the FO is not really serious about trying to be competitive this season. IFK is a good player, don't get me wrong, but we now have a probable position of weakness offensively at catcher. Granted you gotta give to get, but was this truly the best place to get? Still no pitching, now we lose a big bat, and I just don't see how this team can outscore too many other teams. Grade D+ 

Jeffers will need to bounce back from a very poor year offensively. When he was playing every day for a while in 2020, he actually looked pretty good. Maybe if he’s the usual starter (and he should be) he may get into more of a rhythm offensively.

[Finlander]

The Twins needed to improve defensively - they are no longer the La Bombas. IKF plugs the shortstop hole, also has experience at 2B and 3B (gold glove there) and even C, and he will add some speed to the team as well. We will miss Garver's bat. But he is 5 years older than IKF, and he has had some injuries in recent years. We will improve a bit defensively at C with Jeffers and Rortvert. We also added a minor league pitcher (with middle tier upside at best) to add to system depth. I'd say the trade helps both teams, and in the spirit of fair trading to encourage "repeat business", I'd grade this deal as a B. 

[Finlander]

With the thin catching market and the addition of the DH to NL, I do admit wondering what kind of pitching might have been obtained in return for a package including Garver.

[Minderbinder]

Those who grade this trade low must believe the Twins sold low, not high.  Garver had a great 2021, but he's had some inexplicably bad hitting stretches and he'll never be a long-term plus as a catcher.  Jeffers and Rortvedt are younger and presumably the Twins think they can rub out their issues at the plate while not having to worry about the catcher spot defensively.  Same for two-names at SS.  I'd give this trade a B just for not accepting the status quo.

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 minute ago, Minderbinder said:

Those who grade this trade low must believe the Twins sold low, not high.  Garver had a great 2021, but he's had some inexplicably bad hitting stretches and he'll never be a long-term plus as a catcher.  Jeffers and Rortvedt are younger and presumably the Twins think they can rub out their issues at the plate while not having to worry about the catcher spot defensively.  Same for two-names at SS.  I'd give this trade a B just for not accepting the status quo.

In my case, I don't like the trade because I believe the 2022 Twins are worse than they were two days ago. The 2024 Twins, thanks to Henriquez, are probably better now but I'm not particularly concerned with the 2024 Twins right this moment.

[Doctor Gast]

1st I congratulate Texas who had a lesser quality core than us, decided to go for it. Upgrading many areas and with this trade they upgraded their catching position.

  I inially grade this trade as a B. But today I say that I've been duped. Normally I'd reject this trade but because I was shaken by the possibity of having Polanco at SS, I was so relieved that we got IKF to play SS, I was OK with it. I'd reject it because

#1 Because of our very good core any trade would be to upgrade our positions not downgrading. Although there'll be an upgrade at SS we're setting ourselves up with a downgrade at catcher. Garver is an elite established hitting, above avg. defensive catcher with a good arm so I wouldn't trade him. Jeffers isn't an established hitter and I don't like his arm if I had to choose a catcher to trade he'd be the one.

#2 In management of our 40 man roster, I'd like to receive less players to put on the 40 man than I'm giving up but here we are receiving 2 players for 1. Because Texas is looking to compete now they wouldn't be looking to receive 2 lesser prospects for IKF. So I'd look elsewhere but not give up.

Because I'd reject this trade but yet I like IKF, I'd change my grade to a D 

[FrankQuilicy]

Kiner Fairfax is a winner

[FrankQuilicy]

I think he helps the versatility a great deal

 

[TwinsDr2021]

2 hours ago, Finlander said:

 But he is 5 years older than IKF, and he has had some injuries in recent years.

Honest question, why does the age difference matter when they are both on the exact FA schedule? Arb3 in 2023 and UFA in 2024?

 

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

#2 In management of our 40 man roster, I'd like to receive less players to put on the 40 man than I'm giving up but here we are receiving 2 players for 1. Because Texas is looking to compete now they wouldn't be looking to receive 2 lesser prospects for IKF. So I'd look elsewhere but not give up.

Because I'd reject this trade but yet I like IKF, I'd change my grade to a D 

? They traded Cruz and Garver and got back 2 guys in the majors and 2 guys that were required to be on the 40 man, and both seem very unlikely to start the season on the Twins. Other teams trade guys that require a 40 man spot with no indication they will be major league players and the Twins horde them, it seems like a weird strategy to pin yourself down on the 40 man.

[Finlander]

4 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Honest question, why does the age difference matter when they are both on the exact FA schedule? Arb3 in 2023 and UFA in 2024?

 

The point about age was related to potential health, not money or contractual status. IKF is just entering his prime years physically, while Garver is probably on the decline. We have the catching position at least covered defensively with younger guys, but we did need a shortstop. This will fill that hole for now while Lewis, Martin and others are developing. (And, as a bonus, IKF is our 3rd catcher!)

[HerbieFan]

It's a B for me.  IKF seems like a great fit for what the Twins need.  The Henriques addition swings the trade in the Twins favor IMO.  And I'm a GarvSauce fan.  But he'll be 32 and is an average at best defender at catcher.

[jimbo92107]

I gave the trade a B for a few reasons: First, it resolves the logjam at C. Now Ryan Jeffers will get 2/3rds of the playing time, while Ben Rortvedt gets 1/3rd. Second, Twins must be projecting that Jeffers will get better offensively with more playing time. Third, Isaiah Kiner-Falefa (IKF) is a genuine high-level mlb SS with a decent bat. 

What this trade does for the team is solidify it as a good defensive squad. This assumes Larnach in LF, Kirilloff at 1B and Sano as DH. No serious holes in the field. That's a pretty good foundation for this team. 

[Squirrel]

7 hours ago, jimbo92107 said:

I gave the trade a B for a few reasons: First, it resolves the logjam at C. Now Ryan Jeffers will get 2/3rds of the playing time, while Ben Rortvedt gets 1/3rd. Second, Twins must be projecting that Jeffers will get better offensively with more playing time. Third, Isaiah Kiner-Falefa (IKF) is a genuine high-level mlb SS with a decent bat. 

What this trade does for the team is solidify it as a good defensive squad. This assumes Larnach in LF, Kirilloff at 1B and Sano as DH. No serious holes in the field. That's a pretty good foundation for this team. 

yeah, until they traded away IKF AND Rortvedt ... 

[MMMordabito]

I gave it an F after I found out that IKF was acquired just to help with the Donaldson salary dump.