How surprised were you that 2021 went so poorly?

[cHawk]

The 2021 Twins were definitely disappointing to many of us, for many reason. The Starting Rotation imploding, Colome blowing game after game, literally constant injuries, you name it. The question of the day is “How surprising was this to you?” 

[Game7-91]

Is the question headlining the post limited to the Twins?

[glunn]

By nature I am a worrier, so I always sort of see bad outcomes on the horizon. That said, it was a very disappointing season with a few bright spots.

[LastOnePicked]

I am often a pessimist about the Twins, but I had really started to believe that this team was still on the upswing. Heck, I even though Shoemaker was a great signing, and that the rotation was pretty deep. I thought 2021 was going to give us another shot at the playoffs.

But after a very bad spring training, and the Opening Day implosion, I started to have some serious doubts. By the 8-6 loss to the Mariners at home I was back to full-on expecting disaster mode, and have been there since (with the exception of a few Bailey Ober starts).

[Doctor Gast]

Normally I'm an optimist, so I was optimistic overall eventhough I didn't like the Happ & Shoemaker acquisitions and was leary of why CWS let Colume' go. But when broke camp with Cave as their LF, w/o any true established CFer as back up. Baldelli totally depending on a weak rotation and a failing BP from the start w/o any thought of establishing a large long relief corp. The only long relief they had was Dobnak who they only used in mop ups and weird situations. Although Dobnak had a great ST I disagree with management forcing him to depend on his newly experimental slider, which had terrible results and ended up with injury.

Berrios, Buxton, Cruz, Donaldson, resurging Polanco and INF great performances kept us in the games only to have the other over used starters, BP and Cave & Co. lose it for us. At the point that they were doubling down on their early mistakes, eventhough it was early in the season, I knew that there was no hope.

[LVTwinsfan]

I have believed for years that the Twins failure in the playoffs was mainly because of lack of dominant pitching. What’s actually surprising is how many times they made the playoffs over the years. But every time they do they are immediately exposed.  It finally showed itself in a full season

[cHawk]

27 minutes ago, LVTwinsfan said:

I have believed for years that the Twins failure in the playoffs was mainly because of lack of dominant pitching. What’s actually surprising is how many times they made the playoffs over the years. But every time they do they are immediately exposed.  It finally showed itself in a full season

I mean in 2020 their pitching staff practically carried them throughout the season.

[Unwinder]

I was very shocked, and was in denial until almost the all-star break. I STILL maintain that while the team had some real flaws, it was a fluke that it went THAT badly.

[tony&rodney]

The pitching staff pointed toward the final result. Colome crashed worse than I expected but Shoemaker and Happ ..... expected. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I voted “sort of” because I recalled being skeptical of Shoemaker and Happ. Even with my dislike of Happ/Shoemaker signings, I still thought the Twins would be in the 85-ish wins range.

I probably should have voted “didn’t see it coming”.

[Squirrel]

I always approach the games with a ‘Hope for the best, prepare for the worst’ attitude. ‘19 and ‘21 made me hopeful, but pitching made me prepare for the worst. So, I was in the sort of category.

[TopGunn#22]

I also voted "sort of" because even though the White Sox F.O. clobbered ours in having a detailed plan and going out and executing it, the "team" just didn't play to their expected (not unreasonable) levels.  Buxton flashing but hurt again.  Kepler and Sano major disappointments.  Simmons hitting at a level I could have supplied myself (this is not a good thing).  Maeda struggling after a Cy Young Runner-up finish and then getting hurt.  It has been my hope that this was all just an aberration and that we're closer to the 2019-2020 division champion teams.  But there is no Berrios or Maeda at the top of our rotation.  We have Ryan and Ober emerging and a host of young arms bursting with potential but no veteran mainstays to provide confidence.  I still think signing Rodon or Story (and maybe Big Mike) and trading for an established SP like Montas, Bassitt or Manaea could go a long way to helping the Twins be right in the thick of things in the A.L. Central.  But the White Sox are clearly the best team right now and in my opinion the Tigers are emerging as a REAL threat.  All that young pitching and now Spencer Torkelson and Riley Green ready to explode on the scene (and I think BOTH will compete for Rookie of the Year) makes me uncomfortable about our chances.  I just HATE throwing a season away with the pipe dream "2023 will be our year!!!" crap.  I expect Ryan and Ober to build a bit on what they did last year, and I expect a couple of young pitchers    (Winder, Balazovic, Duran ??) to flash like Ryan and Ober did in 2021.  The Twins just need two Vets at the top of their rotation to have a realistic chance to hang with Chicago and Detroit.  If they're the right SP's, we'll hang around and it could be an interesting season.  If not, we're 4th place at best and probably in last place.  At which point Rocco and the FO should be shown the door and we as fans should get the pitchforks out for the "Penurious Pohlads."  Signing Buxton is NOT their "Get Out of Jail Free" card to me.   

[Employee No. 4210]

I'm an optomist when it comes to the Twins, but after Colome's third or fourth blown save early in the season, it was waning. With the Twins still attempting to score all of their runs via homerun instead of making contact to move runners ahead, I was concerned. After "that game" in Oakland, I knew they were done. I was able to just enjoy individual games after that, rather than worry about a not-happening postseason for the Twins. 

[LVTwinsfan]

On 3/5/2022 at 9:42 AM, cHawk said:

I mean in 2020 their pitching staff practically carried them throughout the season.

2020 season? That’s cute

[cHawk]

2 hours ago, LVTwinsfan said:

2020 season? That’s cute

Should the Dodgers World Series Win not count? Of course it should count. Other teams played under the same conditions. It seems like you’re just discarding it because it’s not convenient to your point.

[TwinsDr2021]

10 hours ago, cHawk said:

Should the Dodgers World Series Win not count? Of course it should count. Other teams played under the same conditions. It seems like you’re just discarding it because it’s not convenient to your point.

not to put words in his mouth, but 2020 was a 60 game season where anything could happen. The Marlins went from winning 57 games in 2019, to winning a playoff series against the Cubs, back to a 67 win team in 2022.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

13 hours ago, cHawk said:

Should the Dodgers World Series Win not count? Of course it should count. Other teams played under the same conditions. It seems like you’re just discarding it because it’s not convenient to your point.

The World Series scale did not change. Winning in the 2020 post season was the almost identical craps-shoot that MLB post season has been since the wild card expanded.

the season itself was 60 games and the players performance for 60 games should not be weighed the same as 162 game season.

[cHawk]

19 minutes ago, Sconnie said:

the season itself was 60 games and the players performance for 60 games should not be weighed the same as 162 game season.

It’s a small sample size, but it’s still a valid sample. That doesn’t mean it should just be discarded.

[cHawk]

2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

not to put words in his mouth, but 2020 was a 60 game season where anything could happen. The Marlins went from winning 57 games in 2019, to winning a playoff series against the Cubs, back to a 67 win team in 2022.

The difference with the Marlins is that 2020 was their first winning season since 2009. Ten ****ing years since they were a good team. And the year after that, they were dog**** again. For the Twins 2020 was their third winning season in four years, including a 100-win season the preceding year. Major difference there.

[USAFChief]

52 minutes ago, cHawk said:

It’s a small sample size, but it’s still a valid sample. That doesn’t mean it should just be discarded.

I thought, and think, that the short 2020 "season" wasn't any kind of accurate indicator of the quality of teams. 

I didn't trust the Twins pitching in 2020, despite the veneer of decent stats. Grabbing relievers off the scrap heap and getting 15 good innings out of 18 isn't a good plan, despite lucky results. 

It wasn't that surprising to me it all collapsed the other way over a full season in 2021.

And if 2022 happens, it may well be worse.

 

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, cHawk said:

It’s a small sample size, but it’s still a valid sample. That doesn’t mean it should just be discarded.

Nobody said it should be discarded, did they? It should be taken for what it was 60 games, Are we going to base Sano for example off of last years first 60 games or the last 60 games? No, did anybody think that Maeda was going to continue on that run in 21, I didn't, things normalize over a whole season, taking 60 games as anything more than a good run is a fools errand.

[cHawk]

42 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Nobody said it should be discarded, did they? It should be taken for what it was 60 games, Are we going to base Sano for example off of last years first 60 games or the last 60 games? No, did anybody think that Maeda was going to continue on that run in 21, I didn't, things normalize over a whole season, taking 60 games as anything more than a good run is a fools errand.

Maybe I interpreted this the wrong way, but LVTwinsFan saying, “2020 season? That’s cute,” gave me that implication. If I was wrong to interpret it that way, then I apologize.

Yes, it’s a small sample size, I agree. 100%. It can’t be judged on the same merits as a 162 game season.

[cHawk]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

I thought, and think, that the short 2020 "season" wasn't any kind of accurate indicator of the quality of teams. 

I didn't trust the Twins pitching in 2020, despite the veneer of decent stats. Grabbing relievers off the scrap heap and getting 15 good innings out of 18 isn't a good plan, despite lucky results. 

It wasn't that surprising to me it all collapsed the other way over a full season in 2021.

And if 2022 happens, it may well be worse.

 

If you’re saying that I should throw the 2020 staff’s stats (which weren’t decent, they were very good) out the window entirely in favor of the eye test then I am at a loss for words.

[LVTwinsfan]

16 hours ago, cHawk said:

Should the Dodgers World Series Win not count? Of course it should count. Other teams played under the same conditions. It seems like you’re just discarding it because it’s not convenient to your point.

What does the dodgers have to do with it, In 2020 as usual the Twins get swept in the playoffs, how is that any different

[Richie the Rally Goat]

5 hours ago, cHawk said:

It’s a small sample size, but it’s still a valid sample. That doesn’t mean it should just be discarded.

Matt Wisler pitched the 7th most innings in that season to the tune of 1.07 ERA.

its not that there aren’t any nuggets to be gleaned, but how good the Twins pitching staff were in 2021 (or beyond) isn’t one of them.

[USAFChief]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:37 AM, cHawk said:

... then I am at a loss for words.

FWIW, Mrs Chief often has the same reaction. 

She recovers quickly though. No shortage of words. 

[DocBauer]

I voted that I was flabbergasted. And I was. I know I tend to be a bit of an optomist, but I really liked that team and most of the moves. Now, I had reservations about a 100 win season, lol, but I felt the baseline was around 88 wins and as many as 94-96 wins if a couple things broke right.

I didn't like letting May walk in a season where I felt we had an open widow still. I thought they should have kept Clippard for a couple $M. I wasn't crazy about some of the cheap pitching fliers they brought in, but appreciated some depth at St Paul that might turn out. And I wasn't crazy about not coming up with a 4th OF who could cover CF. I believed Cave would bounce back, but I wanted another option.

On the other hand, my feelings on Happ and Shoemaker and Colome were pretty positive, unlike many of you. Turns out I was wrong on all 3 counts, in retrospect. But that's the key isn't it, looking backward now? I mean, Happ has had a solid career. I'm not sure he was a great fit with the Yankees, but he was coming off a very good 2020. He should have been a fine 4th starter and got off to a decent start. Colome has had a very good career and was also coming of a great 2020. Shoemaker, when healthy, was a solid SP who was signed as a cheap flier for depth and hope. He was a possible bridge until one of the young arms might be ready. The biggest problem made there was virtually guaranteeing him a spot instead of going with the younger Dobnak, who might have a future, and had a great ST. 

A rotation of Maeda, Berrios, Pineda, Happ, and Dobnak/Soemaker should have been really solid. Despite losing May, the addition of Colome to Rogers, Duffey, and Thielbar should have been the base for a pretty good pen. I had my doubts about the young Jeffers repeating what he did in 2020, and I was concerned about the 4th OF spot, and LF was open...but...AK, Rooker, Cave, and even some Arraez should have made LF at least OK. I was excited about Simmons at SS and his glove and "solid/average" bat. I liked the lineup and it's potential.

And then the ceiling caved in like the old Metrodome!

Yes, there were some good performances from Donaldson, Polanco, Garver post injury, Ober, etc. But it seemed like virtually EVERYONE got off to a cold start and took turns being injured. I mean, I literally can't remember a single pitcher or player that got off to a decent start to the season. (Shell shock might be impeding my memory). Even guys who finished strong seemed to perform well below expectation eary on.

So yes, I voted flabbergasted. No way, no how, based on previous performance should the 2021 Twins have been that bad. It just seemed like anything that could go wrong did go wrong.

[stringer bell]

I thought if everything went wrong that the Twins would be playing for second place and maybe third if Cleveland managed to score enough runs. The failure of Columé right away and the early injury to Donaldson combined with an early run of bad luck and extra-inning losses early doomed the season. 
 

The bad luck balanced out, but the Twins saw fit (properly) to trade their best hitter and best starting pitcher, so then there wasn’t much mystery to why they finished last. 

[gunnarthor]

I voted "sorta saw it coming." Prior to the season, I was pretty critical of the Maeda love and the thought that Dobnak could be a pitcher. I said I thought this was a playoff team but you could see how things could really go off the rails. Generally, my position was not taken well.

[AceWrigley]

I was flabbergasted how uncompetitive the Twins were; they didn't have a winning month until August, and that barely at 14-13.