Where does Baldelli rank among MLB managers?

[cHawk]

Baldelli has been heavily praised and heavily criticized by Twins fans all over the internet. In 2019, he won MOTY, yet two years later people were calling for his job. This brings up the question: What do Twins fans think of Baldelli as a whole?

Where do you think Baldelli ranks all of the other among MLB managers and why?

[tony&rodney]

He's doing just fine. Baldelli is young and learning what it takes to be a manager; he is plenty decent. It takes years to reach Francona status. I consider Francona in a class by himself despite the generous media attention paid to a number of younger managers who are certainly good at their jobs. Bob Melvin is another manager who I admire for his handling of a team and his decisions. 

[LastOnePicked]

I couldn't help but read some of Morneau's Twins HOF induction speech comments as a soft indictment of Baldelli. I think former Twins feel Baldelli doesn't quite do enough to push his players. He's perhaps too young yet to have that kind of interaction with them, or he's missing that competitive perspective. 

On the plus side, I think he's supportive, smart and very decent. I like him. But you'd have to give him a winner in terms of a roster - he doesn't seem at all capable of shaping a team into a winner. When the pressure is on, his teams so far have completely choked and faded away.

[USAFChief]

Top 30 for sure.

[cHawk]

7 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Top 30 for sure.

It’s literally impossible for him to not be

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, cHawk said:

It’s literally impossible for him to not be

[Blyleven2011]

Baldelli is out manged practically by every opposing manager  ,,,

Baldelli has talent on the mlb roster but does not tap into that talent to make them better players , complacent  manager 

[Brock Beauchamp]

I put him in the middle tier because it's so hard to evaluate managers. Two plusses in Baldelli's side that keep him out of the bottom rung:

1. His teams seem to have pretty strong second halves

2. No clubhouse drama that reaches the public

Those are good indications he manages a solid clubhouse, which is a huge part of managing in today's game.

As far as in-game management goes, I find him entirely pedestrian. He plays it pretty much by the book, which is fine. When he does stray away from the book, particularly in 2021, the results have been less than stellar.

[jimbo92107]

14 hours ago, cHawk said:

It’s literally impossible for him to not be

Welcome to Nordic humor, starting with left-handed compliments.

[stringer bell]

 I think Rocco is top half, but maybe not Top 10. As noted above, it appears he has a good clubhouse and I think his handling of the bullpen has been good. I’d like to see him stress more aggressiveness on the base paths including using pinch runners if they are also superior in the field. In today’s game small ball has been discouraged, but extra bases provide opportunity. 

[gunnarthor]

Bottom third quality but there are a lot of bottom third managers right now. He's not an asset, we'd be better off with a better manager, but he's not the worst problem we have.

[jimbo92107]

Obviously Rocco Baldelli can't be ranked at the top because he hasn't won a championship, much less a Super Bowl. However, since we know that 60 percent of winning is 90 percent pitching, we can't be too hard on him. After all, he did keep the ship on an even keel, or just a couple feet under. 

Another thing we can't blame on Baldy is player development. If the Front Office won't promote guys like Miranda until far too late for them to make a serious contribution, then what's a GM to do? He filled out lineup cards with guys that were hurt or underperforming, that's what. They played the way they looked like they were going to play. Poor, tired dears!

Now it's a new season, but Baldelli is in the same fix as last year. This boat won't float if the will to promote is so remote. Guys that we fans were screaming to see were finally promoted...after the season was dead and buried and the widow remarried. If you blinked, you missed Miranda and a few of the top prospect pitchers get the quickest cuppa coffee outside a 7/11. Hi, goodbye! I saw a couple good swings, a few good pitches, then poof, pull out those golf clubs!

2022. Fans are itching to get out to the ballpark, smell those hot dogs, hug somebody with Covid, etc. This does not need to be a playoffs/Super Bowl year. However, I think it's high time the FO gave Baldy some new toys to play with, like Martin and Lewis and half the top pitching prospects. Maybe then our GM can kill Superman. That's all we ask.

[wsnydes]

I'd say he's middle of the pack.  It's hard to evaluate managers, but he's got a winning record and a couple of division titles to his name.  There's plenty of brow raising in game stuff, but he's not a detriment to the team.  

[wsnydes]

21 hours ago, cHawk said:

It’s literally impossible for him to not be

That's what you get for not including a "Yes" option in your poll! ?

[cHawk]

11 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Baldelli is out manged practically by every opposing manager

You’re really going to need to elaborate on this one. Few of the losses this year had much to do with his in-game management.

[wsnydes]

11 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Baldelli is out manged practically by every opposing manager  ,,,

As exemplified by his .547 winning percentage.

[bean5302]

2 hours ago, cHawk said:

...Few of the losses this year had much to do with his in-game management.

You're really going to need to elaborate on this one. Almost no losses weren't a direct result of his in-game management.

See what I did there? LOL.

I don't actually know where Baldelli ranks. I don't like him much as a manager based on his decisions on playing time and bullpen, but Baldelli isn't in charge of roster construction so his hands are tied a bit.

[cHawk]

Just now, bean5302 said:

You're really going to need to elaborate on this one. Almost no losses weren't a direct result of his in-game management.

See what I did there? LOL.

I don't actually know where Baldelli ranks. I don't like him much as a manager based on his decisions on playing time and bullpen, but Baldelli isn't in charge of roster construction so his hands are tied a bit.

This is a statement I definitely agree with, and it’s why I think Falvey and Levine get much more of the blame for 2021 than Baldelli.

I guess yeah, I was wrong to say that very few losses were tied to in-game management. I guess, in a way, every loss by any team is tied to in-game management.

But I don’t think it’s fair to say that Baldelli is out-managed regularly.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

23 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

Bottom third quality but there are a lot of bottom third managers right now. He's not an asset, we'd be better off with a better manager, but he's not the worst problem we have.

Isn’t there always 10 bottom third managers?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I’d put Baldelli 10-ish give or take a couple. of any sport, MLB managers matter the least during the game. As long as he’s not “bad”, I’m fine with.
 

Job 1 is keeping the team engaged for 162 games which he is effective at.

Job 2 is just don’t screw up bullpen/rest  etc which he’s hit or miss.

Job 3, pinch runners and hitters have been replaced by bullpen and DH. Baldelli instead. Needs to Listen to his coaches and be the input on hiring the right people, of which he is ok, not great

[bean5302]

On 2/19/2022 at 10:52 PM, cHawk said:

...I guess yeah, I was wrong to say that very few losses were tied to in-game management...

I don't know if you were wrong or not, but it would take many, many hours of analysis to prove your point or the other poster's point. Even if somebody were to post a 10,000 word analysis complete with statistics and charts, it's still such a subjective topic that neither side would likely be convinced the other was right. It would boil down to the statistics being "wrong" or "bad" etc. 

[chpettit19]

I voted for the middle section as I would with just about every manager in baseball. I don' think you can really rank them 1 to 30. It's more of a Good-Neutral-Bad sort of thing for me when it comes to managers. I'd call him neutral.

Don't care what Morneau, or any other player who's literally never played for him, has to say. Rocco's job isn't to do what Morneau would do or run his team the way that would work best for Morneau. I haven't seen any complaints coming from guys who actually play(ed) for him. There are certainly some player usage things that I don't get, but I don't think they happen often enough that I'd call him bad. From the sounds of things players love the atmosphere he helps create in the clubhouse and that's probably job #1 for any manager. I think he's also pretty neutered by the FO when it comes to some decisions. Or at least if he was fired I don't have any reason to believe they'd bring in somebody who'd make any drastically different decisions so why not keep Rocco? The FO want the game managed "by the book" so that's always going to be a big part of the manager's strategy here as long as they're in charge. Players seem to like playing for him so that's good enough for me since I don't think it's realistic to ask him to make too different of decisions based on what his bosses want from him.

[TwinsDr2021]

21 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

 I haven't seen any complaints coming from guys who actually play(ed) for him.

Not arguing with you but who do we blame what Shoemaker said about the Twins? The organization? He didn't pitch great for Sacramento (SF) but his walks and K's were way closer to his norm than in MN where walks were way up and K's were down.

I can't stand Rocco, his in game annoys me and his post game annoys me (and I know that is on me), and maybe it wouldn't matter who this FO hires it would the same. When I see guys on 1st and 2nd and a left handed batter roles one over to the right side (when basically nobody is on the left) and hits into a double play, it makes me not want to watch and I blame Rocco for not installing/coaching situational awareness, or when Sano is one of his droughts and it is later in the game with guys on base, I want him pinched hit for and he is not and wildly swings at balls. Or a pitcher cruises though five innings with a mediocre but not high pitch count and he brings in a relief pitcher, knowing you still need 4 innings and will be required to use two pitchers not as good as your starter. Maybe that is not all on him, but he is the Manager and ultimately that falls on him.

IMO a manager has to have a feel for the game and players and I don't see it, others may and that is fine.

[Brock Beauchamp]

13 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

When I see guys on 1st and 2nd and a left handed batter roles one over to the right side (when basically nobody is on the left) and hits into a double play, it makes me not want to watch and I blame Rocco for not installing/coaching situational awareness, or when Sano is one of his droughts and it is later in the game with guys on base, I want him pinched hit for and he is not and wildly swings at balls. Or a pitcher cruises though five innings with a mediocre but not high pitch count and he brings in a relief pitcher, knowing you still need 4 innings and will be required to use two pitchers not as good as your starter. Maybe that is not all on him, but he is the Manager and ultimately that falls on him.

Everything quoted here is a complaint about 21st century Major League Baseball, not Rocco Baldelli specifically (other than the Sano complaint but most/all managers would leave him in given the short benches forced upon every team due to bullpen size).

[chpettit19]

11 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Not arguing with you but who do we blame what Shoemaker said about the Twins? The organization? He didn't pitch great for Sacramento (SF) but his walks and K's were way closer to his norm than in MN where walks were way up and K's were down.

I can't stand Rocco, his in game annoys me and his post game annoys me (and I know that is on me), and maybe it wouldn't matter who this FO hires it would the same. When I see guys on 1st and 2nd and a left handed batter roles one over to the right side (when basically nobody is on the left) and hits into a double play, it makes me not want to watch and I blame Rocco for not installing/coaching situational awareness, or when Sano is one of his droughts and it is later in the game with guys on base, I want him pinched hit for and he is not and wildly swings at balls. Or a pitcher cruises though five innings with a mediocre but not high pitch count and he brings in a relief pitcher, knowing you still need 4 innings and will be required to use two pitchers not as good as your starter. Maybe that is not all on him, but he is the Manager and ultimately that falls on him.

IMO a manager has to have a feel for the game and players and I don't see it, others may and that is fine.

The FO. The stuff Shoemaker was complaining about is organizational philosophy that comes from the FO and isn't going to change no matter who they hire as manager or pitching coach because they'll just hire other people with the same philosophy.

Pitching changes I also put on the FO. Again, I just don't see a different manager hired by the same FO doing things differently. This is how they want the team run so Rocco wouldn't be the manager if he didn't agree with those types of moves because they wouldn't have hired him. 

I agree there were times late in close games where they'd have Kepler or someone up with the tying run on first and no outs and I was begging for a bunt down the wide open 3B line. I can see why that'd be something we can put on Rocco, but if that's the worst thing about him I think it's quite minor. But even most of that kind of stuff to me is on the FO. Or even front offices as a collective whole. This is how the numbers say they can best win and I blame the nerds (of which I'm one so I can tease like that) for making the game this way.

[TwinsDr2021]

3 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Everything quoted here is a complaint about 21st century Major League Baseball, not Rocco Baldelli specifically (other than the Sano complaint but most/all managers would leave him in given the short benches forced upon every team due to bullpen size).

Maybe that is why there is not a huge uproar for what is happening in MLB right now, besides from the hard core fans and journalists. None of my casual baseball fans really care if or when the baseball season starts. If you aren't a fan of the twins (meaning the need for a few young guys to get some reps, Lewis and Winder for example) do most casual fans care if the season is shorter/delayed cancelled? I have talked to friends about the idea of stacking pitchers and starters with the young Twin pitchers and they are like cool, maybe in a couple of years I will tune in and watch if they are good. (SSS I know)

[Brock Beauchamp]

13 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Maybe that is why there is not a huge uproar for what is happening in MLB right now, besides from the hard core fans and journalists. None of my casual baseball fans really care if or when the baseball season starts. If you aren't a fan of the twins (meaning the need for a few young guys to get some reps, Lewis and Winder for example) do most casual fans care if the season is shorter/delayed cancelled? I have talked to friends about the idea of stacking pitchers and starters with the young Twin pitchers and they are like cool, maybe in a couple of years I will tune in and watch if they are good. (SSS I know)

MLB has made it pretty hard to care about baseball. The current product isn't engaging and badly needs to change.

[LastOnePicked]

On 2/19/2022 at 1:35 PM, jimbo92107 said:

Another thing we can't blame on Baldy is player development.

Well, I do think a MLB manager plays a crucial role in getting young players mentally ready for the stress and challenge of the game at this elite level. I don't think his players perform particularly well under pressure (the 2020 late-season collapse and absolutely terrible postseason games), and young players seem to struggle at the plate and with fundamentals in the field. He doesn't seem to be helping much in that regard. At least not yet. 

[Ryan_K]

There have been definite in game mistakes, but I don't know if that's on him, the FO, or the quality control coach. How much discretion is he allowed to make vs being a facilitator of conversation and strategy coming from FO.

I'm critical of relying on data above common sense as the trends don't always apply to the situation at hand; however, are we critiquing his interpretation of the data or what is provided as data because if incomplete it's tough for him to succeed.

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

I don't think his players perform particularly well under pressure (the 2020 late-season collapse and absolutely terrible postseason games)

The 2020 Twins were 16-8 in September.