Are Falvey’s offseason strategies “bad?”

[Battle ur tail off]

3 hours ago, Prince William said:

So Johan Santana was never an ACE? Ervin Santana with an ERA in the low 3s is a number 4 starter. Okay dokey

Johan Santana was definitely an ACE. He was the definition of it. The rest of that bunch they got what they should have. 

[Prince William]

4 hours ago, Battle ur tail off said:

Johan Santana was definitely an ACE. He was the definition of it. The rest of that bunch they got what they should have. 

Then was it because Ryan was a superior GM that he could spot the potential of Santana and the current FO can't or is it more along the lines your comment on the Twins never having an ACE utter brain fart?

So Pavano and Hughes' injuries should have been foreseen? How might have the team have done that? It should be fascinating to know.

[CBtwinsfan]

This year, more than most FO is in a dilemma.  He needs starting pitching but he has multiple pitchers ready to make their MLB debuts later this year and Meada coming back at the end of this year.  In order to sign good quality pitching they would want multiple year contracts of good money, what then do you do with your pitchers ready to debut.  This is a bad year for this question, last year would have been the better year to ask that question.  This year the Twins are hamstrung with several pitchers ready to make their MLB debut and prove that FO knows how to build a pitching pipeline in Minnesota.

[Battle ur tail off]

On 2/5/2022 at 3:30 PM, Prince William said:

Then was it because Ryan was a superior GM that he could spot the potential of Santana and the current FO can't or is it more along the lines your comment on the Twins never having an ACE utter brain fart?

So Pavano and Hughes' injuries should have been foreseen? How might have the team have done that? It should be fascinating to know.

No, Pavano and Hughes were #3/4 guys their entire careers. It isn't their fault the Twins penciled them in as #1's. Even at their best they weren't aces. And pitchers getting hurt in their 30's probably isn't all that uncommon. 

 

Ryan spotted potential? I am not sure. But I do know that getting a guy in the rule 5 that turns out to be as good as Santana was is a fantastic move. And yes, I am pretty sure Rick Anderson deserves a fair amount of praise for that changeup.

[Prince William]

17 hours ago, Battle ur tail off said:

No, Pavano and Hughes were #3/4 guys their entire careers. It isn't their fault the Twins penciled them in as #1's. Even at their best they weren't aces. And pitchers getting hurt in their 30's probably isn't all that uncommon. 

 

Ryan spotted potential? I am not sure. But I do know that getting a guy in the rule 5 that turns out to be as good as Santana was is a fantastic move. And yes, I am pretty sure Rick Anderson deserves a fair amount of praise for that changeup.

Such was still the pitching coach when Santana came to the Twins. If I remember correctly Santana had the Johnny Podres circle change, but it was neither Such or Anderson who taught it to him. 

[Linus]

4 minutes ago, Prince William said:

Such was still the pitching coach when Santana came to the Twins. If I remember correctly Santana had the Johnny Podres circle change, but it was neither Such or Anderson who taught it to him. 

Correct. It was the AAA pitching coach who was credited with teaching him the change up. Now if I could only remember his name…..

[Prince William]

3 minutes ago, Linus said:

Correct. It was the AAA pitching coach who was credited with teaching him the change up. Now if I could only remember his name…..

Bobby Cuellar. Many thought he should have been promoted rather than Anderson

[Linus]

16 minutes ago, Prince William said:

Bobby Cuellar. Many thought he should have been promoted rather than Anderson

Bingo

[Battle ur tail off]

That's right guys, Bobby Cellphone. Whoever it was, it was something taught in the Twins organization to Johan that made him dominant. In fact, I would argue that changeup may be one of the best ever changeups in the history of the game. Man was that fun to watch him throw.

[Mike Sixel]

On 1/28/2022 at 6:46 AM, Major League Ready said:

Me too.  That Chpettit19 is quite the thunder thief.  He must have quite a stockpile of thunder.  Seriously, their plan appears to me to put a decent team on the field this year while building a pitching staff that will support sustained success.  If you evaluate "their plan" based solely on this year it's hard to imagine what they are doing.  The problem is their plan is puts significant weight on long-term success.   Therefore, what is assumed to be their plan is likely not at all their plan.  

When do we get to start judging? Because for three years now, we've had this same conversation, and we've been told to wait another year or two ......When do we get to start saying "this group is good or bad at their job?"

[Mike Sixel]

31 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

When do we get to start judging? Because for three years now, we've had this same conversation, and we've been told to wait another year or two ......When do we get to start saying "this group is good or bad at their job?"

I think we should start this year.....

[TwinsDr2021]

28 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

When do we get to start judging? Because for three years now, we've had this same conversation, and we've been told to wait another year or two ......When do we get to start saying "this group is good or bad at their job?"

That is the great thing about thinking the plan solely relies on promoting from within for long-term success (which most won't provide what that actually means), as long as their are prospects in the wings the plan is working or just about ready to work.

[rv78]

I think all you need to do is look at the current rotation and easily come to the conclusion that their strategy has been awful.

[Battle ur tail off]

Their plan isn't any different than Terry Ryan's plan. Let's be honest. It is the Pohlad's plan. Be decent enough to get fans to come out so you can make some money. Use your system if you can to make up the majority of your roster(all teams do this) and then fill in with guys that are old, cheap, or hurt and hope for career years out of them. 

[Mike Sixel]

40 minutes ago, Battle ur tail off said:

Their plan isn't any different than Terry Ryan's plan. Let's be honest. It is the Pohlad's plan. Be decent enough to get fans to come out so you can make some money. Use your system if you can to make up the majority of your roster(all teams do this) and then fill in with guys that are old, cheap, or hurt and hope for career years out of them. 

I'm not sure how you reconcile this with Cruz and Donaldson signing here.

[Battle ur tail off]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'm not sure how you reconcile this with Cruz and Donaldson signing here.

Donaldson - yep. 

Don't act like Cruz wasn't 40 something and not a real hot item when we got him, he was also a one year deal.

[Major League Ready]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

When do we get to start judging? Because for three years now, we've had this same conversation, and we've been told to wait another year or two ......When do we get to start saying "this group is good or bad at their job?"

I think we could and should be judging right now.  Obviously, that judgement will be a more educated judgement halfway through the season and even more educated by season's end.  I am pretty sure you have made posts that recognized we lost a year.  Personally, they need to have 3 solid SPs from the group of Ober/Ryan and prospects to get a passing grade.  4 solid SPs would be pretty darn good and a couple BP homegrown BP pieces would be a bonus.  One of them them showing they have what it takes to eventually be a true top of the rotation guy would be a pretty exciting future.  

What are you looking for by seasons end?

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

I think we could and should be judging right now.  Obviously, that judgement will be a more educated judgement halfway through the season and even more educated by season's end.  I am pretty sure you have made posts that recognized we lost a year.  Personally, they need to have 3 solid SPs from the group of Ober/Ryan and prospects to get a passing grade.  4 solid SPs would be pretty darn good and a couple BP homegrown BP pieces would be a bonus.  One of them them showing they have what it takes to eventually be a true top of the rotation guy would be a pretty exciting future.  

What are you looking for by seasons end?

For successful minor league development into the majors? One legit starter in addition to Ober and Ryan (if one of them takes a step back, that's bad), and 2 that might be? Plus, at least one legit starting hitter. And, a bullpen made up of younger guys that is around median. So, sure, 4 legit starters from the system works for me.*

*if they deal minor league guys for a proven MLB player, the ratios clearly change