February 14, 20224 yr 24 minutes ago, ashbury said: When each side is certain the other is days or weeks away from caving, this is the behavior you get. Yep, obstinance to the point of wasting everyone's time.
February 14, 20224 yr On 1/25/2022 at 7:38 AM, Sconnie said: @Brock Beauchampwhen are we getting the sarc font? Yes please. We need this, especially now..........
February 14, 20224 yr On 2/10/2022 at 12:11 PM, Trov said: I think overall, the tanking was more of a side effect of stocking talent in minors to load up for a single push all at once. They would hold guys down in minors and not use service time, and load up on low value talent, having losing be the byproduct, and high picks and international signing money just the bonus. Personally, the players should also seek to have the international players subject to the draft as well, and not have 2 separate ways to get talent, one through a draft and one through a capped bidding process. BINGO! Amazing, is it not, that a viable business strategy is to accept a producing a far inferior product to the competition, in the hopes that one day, for a brief moment, your product-in-development will mature to the point of becoming competitive. But if you working that strategy, you surely know your window of potential competitiveness is so slim, that you will recycle back into inferiority, and loop through this cycle, with only the faintest hope that your product in development will ever mature to the point of being competitive at the highest level. And just accepting that this is a viable business model, because there is no penalty for failure, no possibility of going broke, because your business is publicly subsidized, or more truthfully said publicly extorted, and also communally supported by the more successful competitors who have a vested interest in maintaining your position. This is not a business. Closer to a racket.
February 14, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said: From FanGraphs: The Owners’ Latest Offer Gets Us No Closer to Baseball Season "Phones work two ways." Thanks, Commish. Sarcasm is always the telltale sign that serious negotiation is about to happen. /sarc
February 17, 20224 yr On 2/10/2022 at 1:46 PM, Squirrel said: they also got rid of the compensation pick for FA Sounds like they are tying that to higher financial penalties for exceeding the luxury tax. So, not a concession at all.
February 17, 20224 yr Author 4 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said: This is pathetic. I'm sure there was a very thorough discussion on the proposal too. ?
February 17, 20224 yr The highlight on MLB.com is the best baseball players born on Feb. 17. Thank heavens for Twins Daily, at least, but I sure would like some spring training nuggets. How much crap do the owners think the fans are going to take before we just turn away from the game? I would hate to do that, but I sort of resent being treated like I don't matter, too. They better figure this out fast.
February 18, 20224 yr It reads to me like MLBPA made a decent concession today — that might explain the meeting lasting only 15 minutes. Why sit around and wait when the owners have now been given something significant to consider? https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/02/details-on-todays-cba-negotiations-2.html
February 18, 20224 yr 8 hours ago, DJL44 said: Sounds like they are tying that to higher financial penalties for exceeding the luxury tax. So, not a concession at all. That would be a huge win for MLB against players. The few players per year that benefit from this in exchange for teams getting closer to a salary cap and still no floor? Slam dunk for owners.
February 18, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said: Well ... I return from Florida Mar. 7 ... but then, I didn't plan my trip for ST. I planned my trip to be in Florida, and if I could manage a game or two while there, good for me. After so many years in a row of making it to ST, this will be the 2nd year in a row I won't be able to attend. (I was able to get it in in 2020 before it was shut down.) But I may wander over and see what's happening with the minor leaguers so I can say I was there
February 19, 20224 yr On 2/17/2022 at 7:46 PM, Hosken Bombo Disco said: It reads to me like MLBPA made a decent concession today — that might explain the meeting lasting only 15 minutes. Why sit around and wait when the owners have now been given something significant to consider? https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/02/details-on-todays-cba-negotiations-2.html Well, there is more than one topic of contention. If they plan to negotiate each point individually at an excruciatingly slow pace, we're going to miss half the season before they reach a resolution.
February 19, 20224 yr 3 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said: Well, there is more than one topic of contention. If they plan to negotiate each point individually at an excruciatingly slow pace, we're going to miss half the season before they reach a resolution. Sounds like baseball in 2022 to me!
February 19, 20224 yr Author 4 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said: Sounds like baseball in 2022 to me! That does seem fitting, doesn't it.
February 19, 20224 yr The owners are all billionaires. No matter how long the strike lasts, not a one of them will miss a thousand dollar steak dinner.
February 19, 20224 yr 10 minutes ago, jimbo92107 said: The owners are all billionaires. No matter how long the strike lasts, not a one of them will miss a thousand dollar steak dinner. The union leaders are the same way, just a couple less steaks per year.
February 20, 20224 yr 8 hours ago, TheLeviathan said: Sounds like baseball in 2022 to me! Three True Outcomes. HR / SO / BB Players cave / Owners cave / Adjourn for a week
February 20, 20224 yr 9 hours ago, Prince William said: The union leaders are the same way, just a couple less steaks per year. The union leaders are baseball players. You are saying they are just as greedy and selfish as the billionaire owners, the people that are locking out the players, because billionaires want more money.
February 20, 20224 yr 4 hours ago, jimbo92107 said: The union leaders are baseball players. You are saying they are just as greedy and selfish as the billionaire owners, the people that are locking out the players, because billionaires want more money. When the MLBPA first thing they give up is expanding arbitration it should be evident that their concern is for the player who make the most money get more money. That is greed
February 20, 20224 yr Fun fact: A million seconds ago was about a week and a half ago. A billion seconds ago was the year 1990 A trillion seconds ago was 30,000 B.C. Any argument that suggests "wealthy" is all the same is equivocating to a ridiculous degree.
February 20, 20224 yr 2 hours ago, Prince William said: When the MLBPA first thing they give up is expanding arbitration it should be evident that their concern is for the player who make the most money get more money. That is greed While I generally support the players in this, you’re not wrong about this particular point. Both sides have faults in this situation but it’s pretty clear to me one side is more villainous than the other. On top of everything else, the mere fact owners didn’t even bother to start negotiating for something like 45 days pisses me off to no end.
February 20, 20224 yr Can the players apply for unemployment? I know they aren't paid during the off-season, but at the point they would start drawing their salaries again, continuing to be locked out, are they eligible for unemployment? I know that if they were on strike, they wouldn't be eligible. But other employees in a lockout are eligible ... would this hold true to the players?
February 20, 20224 yr 50 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said: While I generally support the players in this, you’re not wrong about this particular point. Both sides have faults in this situation but it’s pretty clear to me one side is more villainous than the other. On top of everything else, the mere fact owners didn’t even bother to start negotiating for something like 45 days pisses me off to no end. It was reported that Boras is the agent for most of the players on the union council and he has been advising. Both sides have huge faults. People should not forget that it will be unlikely that the pre arbitration and minor league players are going to benefit from this CBA
February 20, 20224 yr 5 hours ago, TheLeviathan said: Fun fact: A million seconds ago was about a week and a half ago. A billion seconds ago was the year 1990 A trillion seconds ago was 30,000 B.C. Any argument that suggests "wealthy" is all the same is equivocating to a ridiculous degree. I did not see where anyone equated "wealthy" is all the same. Perhaps you could tell me which post it is. Time may be money but relative wealthy is not relative time. Greed is greed.
February 20, 20224 yr 9 hours ago, Prince William said: When the MLBPA first thing they give up is expanding arbitration it should be evident that their concern is for the player who make the most money get more money. That is greed So, any union that asks for raises is based on greed, which is an excessive amount of money for what their clients do. And where, pray tell, does the team's income come from? Do we buy tickets to watch the owners? Do we buy from Amazon because we love Jeff Bezos? The workers create the wealth, not the owners. As for greed, a baseball player has at most a score of years to make his nest egg. After that, he lives off his savings, or becomes a coach, or if he's famous, maybe he buys a car dealership or a bar. The billionaire owner just keeps taking an excessive proportion of the team's income. No risk, no need for special skills, just ownership. They don't even care if the season collapses. Can you say the same thing for a ballplayer that just bought a house with a big mortgage?
February 21, 20224 yr 22 minutes ago, jimbo92107 said: So, any union that asks for raises is based on greed, which is an excessive amount of money for what their clients do. And where, pray tell, does the team's income come from? Do we buy tickets to watch the owners? Do we buy from Amazon because we love Jeff Bezos? The workers create the wealth, not the owners. As for greed, a baseball player has at most a score of years to make his nest egg. After that, he lives off his savings, or becomes a coach, or if he's famous, maybe he buys a car dealership or a bar. The billionaire owner just keeps taking an excessive proportion of the team's income. No risk, no need for special skills, just ownership. They don't even care if the season collapses. Can you say the same thing for a ballplayer that just bought a house with a big mortgage? My point was that the union were looking out for the top earners of the union membership not the bottom, not the future bottom players, not the players in the minors with no futures. How you got to what you did is baffling. The players do not care if the season collapses, just look at how little PR they put out about their cause. Both sides, it is a big game of chicken. That is how the super agent works. The union is doing the same tactic. The player that bought a house while knowing there could be a strike is a fool, as would be the mortgage company. When the contract is signed, the gains will be for the top end player, not the bottom, not the minor leagues. They will be the monetary lambs like every other contract. You watch the players not the owners. A simplistic but true statement. . Somebody had to organize, market, coordinate and a whole lot of other stuff to get to the point of you watching the players. One doesn't exist without the other. A fair distribution is never going to happen. The owners won't let it happen, the union has never made it happen.
February 21, 20224 yr Everyone has their opinion of who is greedier in these negotiations, millionaire players or billionaire owners, and their respective roles in the product. This is mostly an exercise in futility of a discussion. So, since this thread is dealing with the updates of the talks, sporadic and slow as they may be, let’s stick to discussions of the actual updates, concessions, progress, stumbling blocks, and actual issues of the negotiations, and not the futility of which side is worse.
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