MLB Talks ... latest news

[Squirrel]

56 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

That didn't take long.

Yeah, the request for mediation was bogus, knowing it would be turned down.

[Old Twins Cap]

Well, the table is set for a long strike:  no mediation agreement, no counter-proposal from the league, no new negotiations scheduled.

Insiders say that by March 1st, March 8th at the latest, regular season games start to come off the calendar.

Owners gain leverage the longer this takes, so count on it lasting a long time.

[wsnydes]

42 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Yeah, the request for mediation was bogus, knowing it would be turned down.

Oh yeah, no surprise there.  

[4twinsJA]

Maybe I am missing something, but doesn't look like sides that far apart. MLBPA already dropped FA proposal and other major changes. Starting to look like owners just want to play less games.

[bean5302]

21 minutes ago, 4twinsJA said:

Maybe I am missing something, but doesn't look like sides that far apart. MLBPA already dropped FA proposal and other major changes. Starting to look like owners just want to play less games.

You're missing a lot. Like a lot, lot, lot. Like almost all of it. MLBPA dropped requests that the owners had already agreed with.

[wsnydes]

so there's that...

 

 

[DJL44]

On 2/4/2022 at 2:26 PM, Old Twins Cap said:

Well, the table is set for a long strike

It's a lockout. All it takes to begin the 2022 season is the owners lifting the lockout. The season would play under the current CBA until the new one is ratified.

[Squirrel]

40 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

It's a lockout. All it takes to begin the 2022 season is the owners lifting the lockout. The season would play under the current CBA until the new one is ratified.

They could 'play and talk' ... but that would take an agreement with players to do so. My guess is the players would then strike ... ?‍♀️

[DJL44]

21 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

They could 'play and talk' ... but that would take an agreement with players to do so. My guess is the players would then strike ... ?‍♀️

Players wouldn't strike until at least July. The owners started the lockout and then refused to meet for negotiations for 2 months.

[Squirrel]

This is good progress, imo ... 

 

 

[Trov]

38 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

This is good progress, imo ... 

 

 

I do not think that moves the needle much.  The DH I think both sides really wanted, and the draft lottery does not address economic issues.  The draft lottery is something the players wanted to help stop tanking, by just having low paid players on your roster.  

I personally do not think teams tanked per se for high draft picks, since there is never a guarantee the top pick will ever pan out, or be the best in the draft.  I think overall, the tanking was more of a side effect of stocking talent in minors to load up for a single push all at once.  They would hold guys down in minors and not use service time, and load up on low value talent, having losing be the byproduct, and high picks and international signing money just the bonus.  Personally, the players should also seek to have the international players subject to the draft as well, and not have 2 separate ways to get talent, one through a draft and one through a capped bidding process. 

[Squirrel]

55 minutes ago, Trov said:

I do not think that moves the needle much.  The DH I think both sides really wanted, and the draft lottery does not address economic issues.  The draft lottery is something the players wanted to help stop tanking, by just having low paid players on your roster.  

I personally do not think teams tanked per se for high draft picks, since there is never a guarantee the top pick will ever pan out, or be the best in the draft.  I think overall, the tanking was more of a side effect of stocking talent in minors to load up for a single push all at once.  They would hold guys down in minors and not use service time, and load up on low value talent, having losing be the byproduct, and high picks and international signing money just the bonus.  Personally, the players should also seek to have the international players subject to the draft as well, and not have 2 separate ways to get talent, one through a draft and one through a capped bidding process. 

Yeah, the economic issues are going to keep things in limbo, I agree. Those are the major issues to be sure. But, at least they are getting through and agreeing on secondary issues. Even if they aren’t the top items, they, too, need resolution, so at least progress is being made

[Richie the Rally Goat]

14 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Yeah, the economic issues are going to keep things in limbo, I agree. Those are the major issues to be sure. But, at least they are getting through and agreeing on secondary issues. Even if they aren’t the top items, they, too, need resolution, so at least progress is being made

Agreed. Frequently goodwill building is the table-setter to higher stakes topics.
 

Any agreement is better than none.

[wsnydes]

12 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Yeah, the economic issues are going to keep things in limbo, I agree. Those are the major issues to be sure. But, at least they are getting through and agreeing on secondary issues. Even if they aren’t the top items, they, too, need resolution, so at least progress is being made

The universal DH was basically a given.  Don't recall about the draft lottery, but I suspect these were non-issues for either party.  That said, the fact that they can actually get something resolved and move onto other things is good.  I'm not sure I'd necessarily call it progress in this case since there wasn't any real contention surrounding these, but I'd rather see this than not.  That in and of itself, is positive.

TL;DR I agree, but I don't, but I do.

[Unwinder]

It's very beautiful to me that the ownership and the players have been able to reach common ground on the famously contentious issue of the universal DH. With the elephant out of the room, figuring out service time and salary changes will be a snap!

[Squirrel]

20 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

The universal DH was basically a given.  Don't recall about the draft lottery, but I suspect these were non-issues for either party.  That said, the fact that they can actually get something resolved and move onto other things is good.  I'm not sure I'd necessarily call it progress in this case since there wasn't any real contention surrounding these, but I'd rather see this than not.  That in and of itself, is positive.

TL;DR I agree, but I don't, but I do.

they also got rid of the compensation pick for FA

[DJL44]

4 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

they also got rid of the compensation pick for FA

That's actually a pretty big concession for the owners.

[wsnydes]

51 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

they also got rid of the compensation pick for FA

Ah, I missed that!  That's actually progress for sure.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

That's actually a pretty big concession for the owners.

Yeah ... if it stays in once all is said and done ... that would be a pretty big reneg if they pulled it back, but since they made it so public, I don't think they will

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

That's actually a pretty big concession for the owners.

Oh hey, that’s an actual concession. Not a huge concession but certainly significant. 

[roger]

Question, they got rid of the comp pick which means the team signing a player will not lose a draft pick.  Will the team losing said player still get an extra compensation draft pick?

[Brock Beauchamp]

39 minutes ago, roger said:

Question, they got rid of the comp pick which means the team signing a player will not lose a draft pick.  Will the team losing said player still get an extra compensation draft pick?

That's a good question. Given baseball's inherent inequity, I've long believed teams should receive a comp pick for losing players to free agency but there should be no punishment for acquiring said free agent.

The former makes sense as an equalizing measure, the latter is an obvious attempt to stifle the free agency market and suppress player salaries, particularly mid-market free agents.

[Vanimal46]

 

[bean5302]

Owners agreed to remove the compensation picks from qualifying offers two weeks ago.

Owners also agreed to free agency at 29.5 or 6 years, but I believe MLBPA pulled that request after MLB agreed to it. 

Owners moved up from $180MM to $220MM for the luxury tax ceiling.

Owners have offered an increase in pre-arbitration salary of 11% base, and an additional bonus of 60% to the top 30 pre-arb players.

I think those are most of the concessions owners have made since their offer in December.

 

[wsnydes]

 

 

 

[wsnydes]

 

 

 

[notoriousgod71]

One question I have is regarding the MLBPA being against teams not promoting players to manipulate service time but then wanting bonuses for players who win awards.

 

We'll call this the Kris Bryant rule.

 

If you were the Cubs and you knew you had a stud like Bryant would you not do the same thing (if not longer) to manipulate a player to make sure they don't win ROY?

 

All of these bonuses for awards is just going to make it more difficult for cheap teams to keep their players. The 2006 offseason would have been just brutal for the Twins as they attempt to ship off Johan and Morneau for having the audacity to win awards.

[wsnydes]

15 minutes ago, notoriousgod71 said:

One question I have is regarding the MLBPA being against teams not promoting players to manipulate service time but then wanting bonuses for players who win awards.

 

We'll call this the Kris Bryant rule.

 

If you were the Cubs and you knew you had a stud like Bryant would you not do the same thing (if not longer) to manipulate a player to make sure they don't win ROY?

 

All of these bonuses for awards is just going to make it more difficult for cheap teams to keep their players. The 2006 offseason would have been just brutal for the Twins as they attempt to ship off Johan and Morneau for having the audacity to win awards.

MLBPA wants stud players to hit free agency sooner.  Or at least be eligible for it, arbitration or an extension sooner.  Manipulating service time hinders that.  Making it more difficult for cheap teams to keep those studs isn't really the MLBPA's concern.

[Brock Beauchamp]

While I'm just generally irritated about pretty much this entire process, the fact they're meeting for like 30 minutes once a week flat-out pisses me off.

Get this done already. You've already done enough damage to the game over the past 24 months, stop the bleeding and start rebuilding the sport.

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

While I'm just generally irritated about pretty much this entire process, the fact they're meeting for like 30 minutes once a week flat-out pisses me off.

Get this done already. You've already done enough damage to the game over the past 24 months, stop the bleeding and start rebuilding the sport.

When each side is certain the other is days or weeks away from caving, this is the behavior you get.